We need an improved midfield, but will it not improve on its own over time, without needing to bring in players from outside..?

  On 31/08/2011 at 03:38, jayceebee31 said:

Keep to the subject matter my boy.

You need to keep up with the Jones'

  On 31/08/2011 at 03:41, Gareth Keenan said:

We need an improved midfield, but will it not improve on its own over time, without needing to bring in players from outside..?

I believe it will Gareth, by the sounds of it you do too, but unfortunately, most supporters don't have the patience. Cue ranting about waiting 47 years, blah blah!!!

  On 31/08/2011 at 03:35, Deesciple said:

Thought I'd voice an opinion on the topic because I reckon it's a very interesting one. I truly believe the primary reason we're not moving forward as quickly as we'd have liked is that our team is truly lacking is quality mature leadership. This aside, there are certainly some list management areas to look at.

By far and away our primary focus needs to be attracting an established, proven key power forward. We have promising developing tall forwards in Watts, Fitzpatrick and Cook (I'll throw Martin in that category also), but in all likelihood both Fitzpatrick and Cook's development over the next two years will be seen primarily at Casey.

In the here and now, we need a forward who could potentially be the difference between us playing finals in 2012 and not. Finals experience is invaluable for players and premiership teams are built on the back of this experience. The sooner we have a taste, the better off we'll be. We need to build the foundations for a forward structure that enables our boys to learn the art of playing in a side with a power forward, which will enable the likes of Fitzpatrick, Cook and Watts to seamlessly transition into that position for us when they are ready. On that basis, and looking purely at football ability, I reckon a committed Fevola is the right option here. Pick him up as a late draft pick, put him on base salary and pay him $12-$15k for each game he plays in the 1s. If he doesn't play the games, he doesn't cost us anything. Win-win for both parties.

The next priority should be towards attaining a genuine elite small crumbing forward (if available). I feel sorry for our current suite of small crumbing forwards i.e. Wona, Maric and old-school Davey because our post-Neitz era has not given them the opportunity to develop their craft like they should have been able. That's been unfortunate. Aaron Davey seems to have lost his way a little, and as we saw against Carlton, his move forward to re-invogorate his play just did not work. You can certainly pass lay some blame to his current mind-set, but I also believe he really lacked opportunities to feed off the crumbs of a KPF. He used to feed off Neitz and Robbo religiously and instinctively. We miss that.

I would love to see us make a play to GWS for the right to select Jaeger O'Meara (no more needs to be said) or 17 yr old Benny Kennedy from SA who looks an absolute gem of a small forward. His acceleration and awareness look elite already and would fill a need of ours in coming years undoubtably.

If we receive two first round picks for Scully, we should go hell for leather to attain the right to compete for one these two elite 17 yr olds who will start alongside Jack Viney in 2013. We should use a combination of Warnock, Bate, Dunn, Morton, excess first round picks, to give us the right to participate in the mini-draft. I don't think we can lose in this scenario.

Thoughts?

All very good points Deesciple.

I'm with you on the Fevola one, although a lot of people wont be keen. Early this year I was totally against it but after having gone and watched him a few times this year out at Casey Fields and seen how he is with the Melbourne players I'm slowly coming around.

Trading for one of the 17 year olds is a good idea and that may be where we can get either O'Meara or Kennedy. But the question is will Morton, Warnock, Bate, Dunn or possibly even Maric be enough to get it done?

Anyone know the rules on trading rookies? Robert Campbell may have some currency. He's shown now that his body is right and he's got through the best part of a full VFL season. I'm sure GWS would love to have a premiership ruckman on their list. Would be great if it could land us O'Meara!

  On 31/08/2011 at 03:48, Tall Defence said:

All very good points Deesciple.

I'm with you on the Fevola one, although a lot of people wont be keen. Early this year I was totally against it but after having gone and watched him a few times this year out at Casey Fields and seen how he is with the Melbourne players I'm slowly coming around.

Trading for one of the 17 year olds is a good idea and that may be where we can get either O'Meara or Kennedy. But the question is will Morton, Warnock, Bate, Dunn or possibly even Maric be enough to get it done?

Anyone know the rules on trading rookies? Robert Campbell may have some currency. He's shown now that his body is right and he's got through the best part of a full VFL season. I'm sure GWS would love to have a premiership ruckman on their list. Would be great if it could land us O'Meara!

I don't think you can trade rookies mate. Only de-list and re-list. We'd need more than just players to get the trade with GWS done. A 1st round would definitely be required, because GWS won't give up their 4 chances lightly.

The number one priority for the club during the off season has to be to secure the services of a solid, reliable midfielder.

Before we go searching for that big bodied, gun forward, we need to win the ball out of the middle and get some quality service into our forwards. By doing so, it will improve the likes of Watts, Howe, Jurrah and Petterd by a considerable amount!

Straight forward poll, straight forward Forward, get Fevola.

I think the key criteria should be TOUGH (yes we are bloody soft sometimes) and LEADERSHIP (for obvious reasons)

  On 31/08/2011 at 09:43, TrueBeliever said:

I think the key criteria should be TOUGH (yes we are bloody soft sometimes) and LEADERSHIP (for obvious reasons)

+ 1

  On 31/08/2011 at 03:44, billy2803 said:

I believe it will Gareth, by the sounds of it you do too, but unfortunately, most supporters don't have the patience. Cue ranting about waiting 47 years, blah blah!!!

I hope you do not have to wait that long billy.

But it annoys me when you make smart remarks about the lack of patience of us older supporters.

You may be right that some people on demonland are impatient.

When you have been waiting as long as some on here than you will have the right to criticize the older

members on Demonland.

Will you still be a member in 2050 if we have only played in 2 GF's and won none?

Time will tell!

You didn't include my preference. A proper small defender who can stop the small forwards who kill us time after time with our slow top-heavy defence.

Can't answer purely based on I don't know what our needs are yet. Until certain players fates have been decided I reserve my judgement until I know what we really need to move forward.

There are some holes that need addressing, we will see what the biggest hole is after we know who is back next year. Something tells me I will be leaning towards a tough quality mid.

A strong, mature bodied, elite mid must be our priority. Our developing mids need someone to take the pressure off them and learn off. Our forward line, although short of a big bodied forward, is still capable of scoring if our mids can get it down there. Our midfield also needs to improve on their clearance percentage as well as learn to stop an opposition run on when required. These problems can be rectified with a quality mid added to our mix.

A large forward is available to us for a steal with Fevola. As stated, he can be put on the primary list on a minimum wage with match payments or rookied. This may provide our developing KPFs with some cover for a couple of years, but if our midfield can't get it down to him then what's the point? We don't need to trade hard for a big forward with this scenario, instead a mid should be our primary focus.

Our back line is bombarded week in, week out from constant opposition centre clearances and our inability to clear the ball. A quality mid go a long way to helping here also.

  On 31/08/2011 at 03:56, Deesciple said:

I don't think you can trade rookies mate. Only de-list and re-list. We'd need more than just players to get the trade with GWS done. A 1st round would definitely be required, because GWS won't give up their 4 chances lightly.

You can trade rookies. Mumford was a rookie when traded from Geelong to Sydney.

Mahoney probably knows that we will be active because some of our players haverequested a trade.(my guess)

  On 31/08/2011 at 10:17, RalphiusMaximus said:

You didn't include my preference. A proper small defender who can stop the small forwards who kill us time after time with our slow top-heavy defence.

We have one-Rohan Bail will do this job for us next season. We still need a Jordan Lewis type and Fevola...these two should be our primary draft picks.

  On 31/08/2011 at 10:10, old dee said:

I hope you do not have to wait that long billy.

But it annoys me when you make smart remarks about the lack of patience of us older supporters.

You may be right that some people on demonland are impatient.

When you have been waiting as long as some on here than you will have the right to criticize the older

members on Demonland.

Will you still be a member in 2050 if we have only played in 2 GF's and won none?

Time will tell!

Old Dee, I've been around for 30+ years and haven't seen a flag. If you've seen one, good for you, you're a long way ahead of most on here. I was getting impatient at times, because the only thing I wanted to do was share premiership glory with my father (who is the reason I support this side). Unfortunately that opportunity isn't possible now, so I've got all the patience in the world - providing I see at least one in my time.

There is one certainty above it all - while there is a Melbourne Demons Football Club, I will never, ever change.

  On 31/08/2011 at 23:25, billy2803 said:

Old Dee, I've been around for 30+ years and haven't seen a flag. If you've seen one, good for you, you're a long way ahead of most on here. I was getting impatient at times, because the only thing I wanted to do was share premiership glory with my father (who is the reason I support this side). Unfortunately that opportunity isn't possible now, so I've got all the patience in the world - providing I see at least one in my time.

There is one certainty above it all - while there is a Melbourne Demons Football Club, I will never, ever change.

Ok then I will excuse you, your pain is of considerable length.

I support the Dees for the same reason with the same result, I am now alone ( well I have few half wit mates as well )

At the end of the day I guess we have no choice but to be be patient.

After a year like 2011 It gets a bit hard to be patient went the holy grail seems as far away as ever.

In spite of my best intentions I will be there next year and I am sure you will be too.

I hope you accept my apology

I'm wondering where the 51% of voters who want a "big bodied KPF" expect to get one ?

Do they make up a fair portion of those who want a Brendan Fevola or a John Butcher ?

And are they content with our current "C" rated midfield ?

Because if we don't improve the quality of our midfield, you can have all the big bodied KPF's you want, you won't service them enough to win you games.

On top of that we have Watts, Cook and Fitzpatrick - the latter two haven't developed yet - but will be given a go when ready. Will be tried next season. We have McDonald (194cm) who could be tried up forward to clunk a few. We have the option of Davis down back. Not to mention our resting ruck - Jamar/Martin/Gawn/Spencer (whoever it may be) on occassions during games.

Then we have Jurrah, Petterd & Howe as our mobile high flyers and Sylvia, Trengove can push forward as well when need be.

Those on the Fevola/Butcher bandwagons take note. Fevola has a line through him (ref: see club) and Butcher is very unlikely to get to us.

So, what is your no.1 trade priority ?

Frankly, personally a quality player with leadership written all over him would be handy IMO. Someone like say...Brendan Goddard ?

  On 01/09/2011 at 02:10, High Tower said:

I'm wondering where the 51% of voters who want a "big bodied KPF" expect to get one ?

Do they make up a fair portion of those who want a Brendan Fevola or a John Butcher ?

And are they content with our current "C" rated midfield ?

Because if we don't improve the quality of our midfield, you can have all the big bodied KPF's you want, you won't service them enough to win you games.

On top of that we have Watts, Cook and Fitzpatrick - the latter two haven't developed yet - but will be given a go when ready. Will be tried next season. We have McDonald (194cm) who could be tried up forward to clunk a few. We have the option of Davis down back. Not to mention our resting ruck - Jamar/Martin/Gawn/Spencer (whoever it may be) on occassions during games.

Then we have Jurrah, Petterd & Howe as our mobile high flyers and Sylvia, Trengove can push forward as well when need be.

Those on the Fevola/Butcher bandwagons take note. Fevola has a line through him (ref: see club) and Butcher is very unlikely to get to us.

So, what is your no.1 trade priority ?

Frankly, personally a quality player with leadership written all over him would be handy IMO. Someone like say...Brendan Goddard ?

Chris Dawes

  On 01/09/2011 at 02:10, High Tower said:

I'm wondering where the 51% of voters who want a "big bodied KPF" expect to get one ?

Do they make up a fair portion of those who want a Brendan Fevola or a John Butcher ?

And are they content with our current "C" rated midfield ?

Because if we don't improve the quality of our midfield, you can have all the big bodied KPF's you want, you won't service them enough to win you games.

On top of that we have Watts, Cook and Fitzpatrick - the latter two haven't developed yet - but will be given a go when ready. Will be tried next season. We have McDonald (194cm) who could be tried up forward to clunk a few. We have the option of Davis down back. Not to mention our resting ruck - Jamar/Martin/Gawn/Spencer (whoever it may be) on occassions during games.

Then we have Jurrah, Petterd & Howe as our mobile high flyers and Sylvia, Trengove can push forward as well when need be.

Those on the Fevola/Butcher bandwagons take note. Fevola has a line through him (ref: see club) and Butcher is very unlikely to get to us.

So, what is your no.1 trade priority ?

Frankly, personally a quality player with leadership written all over him would be handy IMO. Someone like say...Brendan Goddard ?

'C' rated midfield is probably a fair assessment of where we're at currently, but at the same token, what did you actually expect after a complete re-build?!? This is what comes out the other end of a team going through a complete re-build. We have a midfield, Moloney and Sylvia aside, consisting of Trengove, McKenzie, Jones, Gysberts, Bail and Grimes.. and with Viney to come. I would challenge you to say that we were below 'A' grade for under 23's.

We just have to be patient. The boys just need games into them. A Jordan Lewis is not going to add much to us. Is he that much better than Moloney, who is arguably one of the members of the best Ruck/Rover combination in the AFL? Look at who Lewis he has around him.. Absolute guns in Mitchell, Sewell, Hodge, Burgoyne and Rioli. I'm leaving Bateman and Shields out of that list as well.

We've been through the pain.. we need to stick with what we have and back them in.

North have the likes of Swallow, Ziebell, Cunnington, Greenwood, Bastinac and Atley all coming through. We're at a very similar stage in development to the Kangas, we get smashed by the teams above us, and account for the teams below us. We'll come good.

Just food for thought, I think everyone understands that you need a good midfield, however Carlton have one of the highest rated midfields but can't crack top 4 because their key position players aren't up to it.

Butcher and Dawes are the best trades with a glimmer of hope of being on the table.

If Scully goes, we have 2 extra picks available and up to $600K to bargain with - thats a good position.

We get one of these big guys, pick up a midfielder with our round one pick (not a part of Scully compensation.

We also have Viney booked in for the following years draft.

  On 30/08/2011 at 22:36, Range Rover said:

Straightforward poll. Let's see what the fans want ...

Mitch Clark, The FEV and Butcher.

  On 01/09/2011 at 02:10, High Tower said:

I'm wondering where the 51% of voters who want a "big bodied KPF" expect to get one ?

Do they make up a fair portion of those who want a Brendan Fevola or a John Butcher ?

And are they content with our current "C" rated midfield ?

Because if we don't improve the quality of our midfield, you can have all the big bodied KPF's you want, you won't service them enough to win you games.

On top of that we have Watts, Cook and Fitzpatrick - the latter two haven't developed yet - but will be given a go when ready. Will be tried next season. We have McDonald (194cm) who could be tried up forward to clunk a few. We have the option of Davis down back. Not to mention our resting ruck - Jamar/Martin/Gawn/Spencer (whoever it may be) on occassions during games.

Then we have Jurrah, Petterd & Howe as our mobile high flyers and Sylvia, Trengove can push forward as well when need be.

Those on the Fevola/Butcher bandwagons take note. Fevola has a line through him (ref: see club) and Butcher is very unlikely to get to us.

So, what is your no.1 trade priority ?

Frankly, personally a quality player with leadership written all over him would be handy IMO. Someone like say...Brendan Goddard ?

Funny you should mention him I've been thinking for a while we should have a crack at Goddard, he's been down on form a bit this year and at times you have to wonder how much trouble the "School girl" caused down there and are there ructions in the playing group? He's a top footballer who can play almost anywhere, a bit like a "Hird" who could just take himself to where he's needed and win games for you.

I noticed you had a bit of stuff on Ology about him and it might be worthwhile posting it here as well.

  On 01/09/2011 at 02:10, High Tower said:

I'm wondering where the 51% of voters who want a "big bodied KPF" expect to get one ?

Do they make up a fair portion of those who want a Brendan Fevola or a John Butcher ?

And are they content with our current "C" rated midfield ?

Because if we don't improve the quality of our midfield, you can have all the big bodied KPF's you want, you won't service them enough to win you games.

On top of that we have Watts, Cook and Fitzpatrick - the latter two haven't developed yet - but will be given a go when ready. Will be tried next season. We have McDonald (194cm) who could be tried up forward to clunk a few. We have the option of Davis down back. Not to mention our resting ruck - Jamar/Martin/Gawn/Spencer (whoever it may be) on occassions during games.

Then we have Jurrah, Petterd & Howe as our mobile high flyers and Sylvia, Trengove can push forward as well when need be.

Those on the Fevola/Butcher bandwagons take note. Fevola has a line through him (ref: see club) and Butcher is very unlikely to get to us.

So, what is your no.1 trade priority ?

Frankly, personally a quality player with leadership written all over him would be handy IMO. Someone like say...Brendan Goddard ?

I'm one of the 51% and there is only one choice- FEVOLA..