Deesciple

I highly doubt we will get Pick 33 for Martin, and trading him for Pick 53 isn't worth our while because it'll be like giving him away for nothing as I don't see us using that pick in the draft. He is probably worth smack bang in the middle of that at 43.. So, what do we do? Throw in Pick 49 with Martin for their Pick 33. If they're not interested, they're not interested. We move on.

Is anyone else thinking he could become a super sub specialist?!? We could do a lot worse than bring his energy and explosiveness into the middle of the ground during a 4th quarter... He's a hard man to tackle to the ground.

Happy to pay whatever it takes now to get Pedersen and Ray over the line. I'm assuming that our only live picks in the draft will be Pick 4, 27 (Viney), 106 (Nicholson) and 124 (Magner) therefore picks 49 to 80 are effectively worth nothing to us. Martin and Pick 49 to Brisbane for Pick 33 Morton and Pick 63 to West Coast for Pick 41 Pick 41 to North for Pedersen Pick 33 to Saints for Ray (or a slider in the draft) The wash-up, Martin and Morton for Pedersen and Ray. I'm calling that a win. Come on Harrington, get it done!

Perhaps consider a straight swap for Jordy Gysberts. Both 1st round picks... I'm open to a trade on the condition that the recruiting department thinks that Ben Jacobs can give us some better spread from contests than Jordy gives us. I wouldn't be offering the world though.. at the end of the day, I don't see Jacobs starting in our fully fit 22.

I like the parallel thinking outside the square, but doubt GWS would trade our pick back to us.. Two mid first round picks would be an absolute dream!

I would like to think we could be a bit creative with pick 4. I look at picks 4-12 and think that I could throw a blanket over a number of decent names that we could pick up with that pick. Wines, O'Rourke and Mayes seem to be popular amongst demonlanders, but without any great conviction. I, personally, am more enticed by the next suite of players. The Stringers, Vlastuins and Kennedys of the world. What would people's reaction be if we had a word in the Tigers recruiting teams's ear and suggested a swap of our pick 4 for picks 9 and 29 in the draft? From most reports, the draft is strong through to pick 30 and there's a real chance to pick up one of a number of players of the calibre of Coluqoun, Towers, Wright, Haynes or Broomhead with pick 29. I think the seductive thought of holding a prized high pick is often far too over-rated at the expense and this year is the perfect chance to exploit this by spreading our draft risk across two solid picks. Considering that we will more than likely only be exercising 2 or 3 more live picks in this draft, I would like to think we could finish our campaign with our final pick being in the top 30. Throw me a Kennedy and Towers in addition to our wins so far this trade period and I will sleep this pre-season one happy demon man. p.s. Pick 20 for Dawes - Get in done Harrington!

Let's put a little perspective into all of this... Tim Harrington's number one priority is to act in the best interests of the MFC. Picking up Viney with pick 26 (or whatever our 2nd round pick ends up being) is by far and away one of his main priorities. In order to do that, the perception needs to be that we will overlook Viney with pick 3. We have to be strong in our public convictions to give ourselves every chance to make this happen. If Gold Coast nominate Jack with their pick 2, the scenario clearly changes. It is then in our best interests to secure Jack with the #3 pick. Plain and simple. He means more to us from a cultural, membership, marketing, sales, future F/S perspective than picking up a Toumpas or O'Rourke (no disrespect intended to those boys..). It has been a long time coming, but I will sit/stand proudly as a passionate MFC member when GC nominate Jack with pick 2 and we come over the top and claim him as our own. GO DEES!!!!

Don't bothers... Cloke - I think that would be a mistake. We'd be paying overs, and I reckon Clark relishes the opportunity to be the premier key forward at the club. Boak - Although I'd love to see him in the red and blue, Geelong will find a way to get the deal done. I wouldn't like us to spend to much time here. Have a real crack... Goddard - I think his value is two-fold for us. I think he could slot in nicely as a quality CHF for us, and I'd also like to see him given the responsibility of being mentor to J Watts. Offer $750k-$800k as bait to see if he can be persuaded on a move. Wellingham - I honestly think he's worth offering our pick 13. He is exactly the type of player we need. Beautiful kick, good turn of speed, good tackler and quick hands. Wouldn't be surprised if Collingwood chased Robbie Warnock which would thwart any possible Martin trade. Straight swap wouldn't get the job done anyway.

I just want to start by saying that I'm a Rivers fan. Putting that aside and trying to be as objective as possible, I have racked my brain to work out why Harrington would put off Rivers' contract talks to year end considering he has been arguably our most consistent performer over the past two seasons. Now I think it has a lot to do with the uncertainty surrounding Chaplin. Facts: 1. MFC wants Travis Boak 2. Port Adelaide are likely to lose Boak and Chaplin 3. Rivers would go a long way to covering Chaplin's departure 4. Rivers is a SA boy 5. Tom McDonald is developing very nicely Rivers and pick 13 for Boak wouldn't get the deal done. Throw in a swap of pick 4 for pick 7, then you've got the makings of a possible trade. Rivers, pick 4 and pick 13 to Port Adelaide Boak and pick 7 to Melbourne I'll be interested in reading thoughts..

It's going to be really interesting to see which way Neeldy goes this weekend. For what it's worth.. B: Bartram, Sellar, Rivers HB: Grimes, Frawley, Garland C: Howe, Moloney, Magner HF: Pettard, Martin, Dunn F: Green, Clark, Davey R: Jamar, Trengove, Jones B: Watts, Bate, Blease Sub: McKenzie I've tried to keep my personal views free from this selection and tap into Neeldy's brain. 1. Neeld seems to demand Sellar in his structure, so even though I'd be reluctant to play him against Brisbane, it seems he'll take his spot. 2. He will have told Magner whether or not he's playing and he'll make a point of it by naming him on the ground rather than on an extended bench. 3. Watts he'll name on the extended bench because he would make a similar statement the other way. 4. I really don't know where Jordie McKenzie is at... he's had quite an underdone pre-season but he didn't play last week which confuses me. I've got him as my sub, but this could easily be Bennell's possie. All I can say is bring on Saturday because I'm chomping at the bit to see the boys get stuck in!! GO DEES!!!

Surely Maric is delisted, then we delist Wona with the thought of picking him up again as a rookie. It'd be cruel to delist Joel Mac. Is supurb back up and just a class act and genuine good bloke to have around the club.

Certainly is. And an exceptional one at that.

I still reckon we should explore whether there is any chance of GWS dealing with us for a shot at Ben Kennedy in the mini-draft. Love this kid! Surely it couldn't hurt to inquire...

Let's look at the facts here from each party's perspective. Fremantle Board: 1. Were dissatisfied with Mark Harvey (rightly or wrongly) and were looking for alternatives to replace him. 2. Have contacted Ross Lyon personally, to avoid creating a conflict of interest with Craig Kelly. 3. Have succeeded in getting replacing a coach with the absolute minimum of disruption. Ross Lyon: 1. Was in contact with Fremantle directly, to avoid creating a conflict of interest with Craig Kelly. 2. Has clearly weighed up his options and determined that the offer by Fremantle is in his best interests. Craig Kelly: 1. Ross Lyon did you a favour mate. How could you be involved in that scenario. Don't be a tool. Loyalty and trust is a 2-way street. I have no issue with what Ross Lyon has done. Look what happened to Mark Harvey, he was completely blind sided by the Fremantle Board. Who's to say that Ross shouldn't be concerned about his security at St Kilda? Half a bad season and you're out the door these days. It's [censored]. Ross Lyon has to look after Ross Lyon. There is no loyalty in football. The fact that this was played out completely discreetly and out of the prying eyes of the media should be commended. I feel sorry for Mark Harvey, but he receives his payout for the remainder of the contract. That's the life of a coach.

Pick 18 is our 2nd compo pick. Collingwood could hold onto it and use that "middle of the first round" pick in any of the next 4 years. I'm not suggesting they use it in this year's draft, because you're right, it's compromised and shallow. Change your thoughts?

I reckon we consider the following: Use pick 12 on this draft. Pick 13 - Suss out a trade to GWS with Warnock and Bate packaged in return for 1st pick of the 17 yr olds and a 3rd round pick. Pick 18 - Suss out a trade to Collingwood for Dawes What that means is that in 2012 we'll pick up both Jaegar O'Meara and Jack Viney (using our first pick next year). That would be a solid return.

The key to marked improvement next year, will be the return to consistent form of our current leadership group (still very much open to a reshuffle) 1. Green Current Leader 2. Moloney Current Leader 3. Davey Current Leader 4. Rivers Current Leader 5. Jamar Absolutely crucial for us 6. Frawley No.1 backman 7. Garland No.2 backman 8. Watts Big year needed 9. Trengove Future captain. Stamp your authority. 10.Sylvia This is your big chance to step up and lead your club through onfield brilliance! Apologies: Grimes, McKenzie and Jurrah.

Goddard would also be a fantastic option. I 100% agree. He would be preferrable, and if we could grab both Goddard and Power, that would only enhance us. We have to trade hard with our draft picks and compo draft picks for our leadership. It will certainly come at a cost. Would be interesting to see whether a Ross Lyon move to Melbourne would do to a Goddard decision...

I think the club has to admit it made a serious mistake in letting Junior go and go some ways towards fixing the issue but instilling some outside leadership into the club. It won't fix everything, but I just think we need a fresh perspective. Not dissimilar to Judd going to Carlton as captain.

In the aftermath of the Tom Scully decision, we need to make some bold footy personnel decisions. This thread has been set up to allow people to share their respective ideas with respect to the best way that they feel the MFC can bring about the reinvention of the club's leadership. All our playing list woes (i.e. the need for a key power forward or hard established in and under midfielder etc etc) pale into insignificance if we can't resolve our lack of genuine 'mature' leadership. Now what I mean by that, is that we have fantastic potential leaders in the making, with the likes of Trengove (who we will be building our club around!), Grimes and Watts, but they are all currently lacking one key ingredient that can make them fantastic leaders. They are currently completely void of AFL finals experience. We no longer have club stalwarts such as Neitz, White, Lyon, Viney and co to look up which means that we currently and will continue to capitulate against the top teams. It still burns me inside that we forced Junior McDonald into retirement, because he was the only flicker of genuine leadership we had at the club. Now I know you can't instantly instill leadership into a club, however I think we should make a critical play for a player that has only been spoken about in a limited fashion in these forums. We NEED Luke Power. He is a 3 time premiership player with outstanding leadership attributes who has gone on the record saying that Vossy gave him no real choice but to retire. I don't mean to be disrespectful to our boys, but we are in a position, not dissimilar to and only slightly more advanced than both GWS and Gold Coast. We have an undeniable list of talent, but a continuing lack of genuine leadership will stifle the growth of our entire list. Some people will laugh, and others will scoff at the idea, that's fine - but in my opinion, we need to make a play for Power. We should offer him the captaincy of our great club until Trenners is ready to take over the mantle and his primary focus should be on teaching, guiding and mentoring our suite of players. He should be captain for as long as he wants to continue playing and be offered an assistant coaching position with the dees when he does choose to retire. Those who say he's too old, I say we need 3 or 4 of his quality and experience to guide our developing dees over the coming two seasons.

'C' rated midfield is probably a fair assessment of where we're at currently, but at the same token, what did you actually expect after a complete re-build?!? This is what comes out the other end of a team going through a complete re-build. We have a midfield, Moloney and Sylvia aside, consisting of Trengove, McKenzie, Jones, Gysberts, Bail and Grimes.. and with Viney to come. I would challenge you to say that we were below 'A' grade for under 23's. We just have to be patient. The boys just need games into them. A Jordan Lewis is not going to add much to us. Is he that much better than Moloney, who is arguably one of the members of the best Ruck/Rover combination in the AFL? Look at who Lewis he has around him.. Absolute guns in Mitchell, Sewell, Hodge, Burgoyne and Rioli. I'm leaving Bateman and Shields out of that list as well. We've been through the pain.. we need to stick with what we have and back them in. North have the likes of Swallow, Ziebell, Cunnington, Greenwood, Bastinac and Atley all coming through. We're at a very similar stage in development to the Kangas, we get smashed by the teams above us, and account for the teams below us. We'll come good.

I don't think you can trade rookies mate. Only de-list and re-list. We'd need more than just players to get the trade with GWS done. A 1st round would definitely be required, because GWS won't give up their 4 chances lightly.

Thought I'd voice an opinion on the topic because I reckon it's a very interesting one. I truly believe the primary reason we're not moving forward as quickly as we'd have liked is that our team is truly lacking is quality mature leadership. This aside, there are certainly some list management areas to look at. By far and away our primary focus needs to be attracting an established, proven key power forward. We have promising developing tall forwards in Watts, Fitzpatrick and Cook (I'll throw Martin in that category also), but in all likelihood both Fitzpatrick and Cook's development over the next two years will be seen primarily at Casey. In the here and now, we need a forward who could potentially be the difference between us playing finals in 2012 and not. Finals experience is invaluable for players and premiership teams are built on the back of this experience. The sooner we have a taste, the better off we'll be. We need to build the foundations for a forward structure that enables our boys to learn the art of playing in a side with a power forward, which will enable the likes of Fitzpatrick, Cook and Watts to seamlessly transition into that position for us when they are ready. On that basis, and looking purely at football ability, I reckon a committed Fevola is the right option here. Pick him up as a late draft pick, put him on base salary and pay him $12-$15k for each game he plays in the 1s. If he doesn't play the games, he doesn't cost us anything. Win-win for both parties. The next priority should be towards attaining a genuine elite small crumbing forward (if available). I feel sorry for our current suite of small crumbing forwards i.e. Wona, Maric and old-school Davey because our post-Neitz era has not given them the opportunity to develop their craft like they should have been able. That's been unfortunate. Aaron Davey seems to have lost his way a little, and as we saw against Carlton, his move forward to re-invogorate his play just did not work. You can certainly pass lay some blame to his current mind-set, but I also believe he really lacked opportunities to feed off the crumbs of a KPF. He used to feed off Neitz and Robbo religiously and instinctively. We miss that. I would love to see us make a play to GWS for the right to select Jaeger O'Meara (no more needs to be said) or 17 yr old Benny Kennedy from SA who looks an absolute gem of a small forward. His acceleration and awareness look elite already and would fill a need of ours in coming years undoubtably. If we receive two first round picks for Scully, we should go hell for leather to attain the right to compete for one these two elite 17 yr olds who will start alongside Jack Viney in 2013. We should use a combination of Warnock, Bate, Dunn, Morton, excess first round picks, to give us the right to participate in the mini-draft. I don't think we can lose in this scenario. Thoughts?

This week we make a stand. We MUST go into this week with a team who can and will tackle. If you can't tackle, you're out. Ins this week: Bartram, MacDonald, Davey, Jetta, Scully Outs this week: Gysberts, Nicholson, Bate, Strauss, Green (The 'captain', and I use the term very very loosely here, must assume responsibility for the 186 point capitulation and be dropped) B: Bartram Frawley Rivers HB: Tapscott Garland MacDonald C: Scully Moloney © Jones HF: Howe Watts Sylvia F: Davey Jurrah Petterd R: Jamar McKenzie Trengove (VC) B: Martin Jetta Maric Dunn Going forward we need a simple model. We're a club at war here, and last week's rout CANNOT EVER HAPPEN AGAIN. When you're at war, you need to identify your best leader to take you into battle on game day. Moloney must take over the captaincy now and continue on through 2012-2013. Trengove is without question the best option for VC. He is a born leader and a gun. His time as captain will come, and the team should earmark him now to take over the captaincy from Beamer after this tumoltuous time. He deserves it. Scrap the concept of a 'leadership group' IMMEDIATELY. The likes of Jones, Grimes, Watts, Frawley, Jamar and McKenzie all have great potential leadership characteristics, but in these times we must refrain from overcomplicating the model. It clearly hasn't worked up til now and has allowed all the current current leadership group players to hide from their responsibilities That is completely unacceptable. Read Lethal Leigh's article printed today on the AFL website, he is 100% spot on. The final cog in the wheel is our coach. I would like to start by saying, Todd Viney, what a champion of our footy club. He is exactly the hard-nosed bloke we need in charge over the next minimum 5 weeks this year. Going forward, we need a more authorotarian style coach for this group or at least a coach who demands respect. It needs to be someone who can motivate and demand quality from this team of incredible talent and potential. Self-motivation for this team is non-existent. Average 66 point losses evidence that and then some. This lack of self-motivation and belief is what ultimately cost the tactician coaching style of Dean Bailey his job. Dean would have been better suited to a team with strong leaders ala Geelong and Hawthorn. If Garry can't chase down Malthouse, I would like to see us take a chance with either Choco Williams or even go old school and call on the services of a rejuvenated Denis Pagan. We must have a coach who has tasted premiership success. CARN THE MIGHTY DEES!!! Now it's there time to show me why I support this club!!

THEORETICAL LINE UP B: Warnock Garland Frawley HB: Grimes Rivers Morton C: Green Moloney Davey HF: Sylvia Bate Bruce F: Jurrah Watts Wonaeamirri R: Jamar McDonald Scully Int: Johnson Trengove Blease Martin Jones, Bennell, Bell, Cheney, Jetta, Maric, Pettard, Strauss, Miller, JOEL McDONALD OK, now from what I can see we've got our fair share of half-back flankers, not all of which are currently at the same level as JM, however enough that are, and enough young blood to suggest this isn't really the position we need to be gearing up for. The only potential weakness I see is we are 1 tall short of a future devastating forward line. Mitchell Thorp for mine is worth the punt with PSD 1. Another spec tall forward in the ND (i.e. Talia or Black), a ruck option in Vardy or Gaw and some Troy Taylor or Liam Patrick excitement, then I'm starting to tingle. Whatever happens, we're on the right path. In Barry I trust.