Pre-Season In Arizona

[Guest hangon007]

I bet you haven't even read the science. There are innumerable papers on altitude training, the most optimistic of which point to a probable physiological advantage of about 2-5%, lasting a maximum of 2 months (the life of a red blood cell). So the effect, while certainly there, is not "massive".

Some effects can even be negative ... the danger of overtraining, higher dehydration leading to weight loss, negative effects on the immune system, loss of muscle mass because of the increase in metabolic rate, higher blood viscosity making it harder for the heart to pump.

Some recent papers even suggest "living high, training low" has greater benefits than "living low, training high". Perhaps Collingwood should live in Arizona and come back to sea-level for training.

2-5% is massive in modern professional sport ... it only takes 1% to be infront

The negative is only negative if you DONT manage the loads, especially during the season. Surely, the "science" is much smarter than that.

Understand your last point but it not practical ... you do the best with what is available around you.

However, this is not to say the "science" will not further progress.

PS Yes, I have read the "science" but like all science suppose you can play with the "results as they are statistically based" and I concede not ALL sports people are the same. But hey modern AFL football seems to be heading down the track of "specifics types" compared to many years ago ALL types played the game. Hence, you need your recruiting & drafting team to buy into the programme.

PSS Please note I dont disagree with you I accept their are "risks" ... its people like yourself that really make this a great place ... good positive stuff explained brilliantly. Thank-you

Edited August 5, 2011 by hangon007

[mauriesy 7,287]

2-5% is massive

Then you have a different definition of 'massive' to me.

[dee-luded 2,959]

No!, Not this next 2 years.

We need to do Pre Season in a Boxing Ring first, to help get these 'skilled boys', playing like toughened hard men first....

After that we should look into something like aLtitude training.

* Attitude training is far more Important & quicker results.

[daisycutter 29,613]

* Attitude training is far more Important & quicker results.

Good point dee-luded

[old dee 23,787]

Geelong did not go to Arizona and it did not seem to worry them last saturday.

Lets get our act together before we start worrying about the USA / China.

When we are as good as Geelong I will worry about Arizona

[mauriesy 7,287]

Geelong did not go to Arizona and it did not seem to worry them last saturday.

But wouldn't a 5% advantage from altitude training cut the margin back to 177?

[Guest hangon007]

Then you have a different definition of 'massive' to me.

If I was in-front of my opponents by 1% every time I played them ... I'm a very, very happy man. However, 2-5% is a 100+++% improvement on that & thats MASSIVE.

But I hear what you are saying, I dont come at the science from a pure "science" background ... my interest sits more in talent identification process and then the need to deliver the football department the right "person" so they can get them to peak performance.

But I hear you.

Edited August 5, 2011 by hangon007

[PaulRB 6,362]

Surely there are a few members with lodges at Falls Creek they could lend for the team for a couple of weeks over summer?

Edited August 5, 2011 by PaulRB

[old dee 23,787]

But wouldn't a 5% advantage from altitude training cut the margin back to 177?

Thats $55 000 / point seems a good investment to me!

[jackaub 1,402]

Maybe the China end of season money could have been better used as it seemed to have precipitated some problems in the playing group

[old dee 23,787]

Maybe the China end of season money could have been better used as it seemed to have precipitated some problems in the playing group

Hell I would like to know what happened.

Seemed strange that Scully came home very early!

[Dee Dee 1,108]

Do any of the top international soccer teams use altitude training?

Surely if it was any good, many of the better/richer European teams would be at it!

[jnrmac 20,058]

There is no argument Collingwood get a massive advantage by doing their pre-season training in Arizona ... fantastic base fitness level & much easier to reach your peak training levels quicker, then you manage the "load" thru out the season. Talk is other clubs will start to do it soon.

Estimated cost for your list is approximately $500,000

How do we find the money to do it?

How do we get our players on more of a level playing field?

Would you pay a levy on your membership? Would you buy tickets in a raffle specifically for this purpose?

HAHAHAHAH That is one of the funnier posts I have read,

The CLub couldn't even pay for the players to stay in Geelong in Friday so they could do a training session on Friday.

You are DREAMING!

[mauriesy 7,287]

If I was in-front of my opponents by 1% every time I played them ... I'm a very, very happy man.

We haven't had one game this year where the difference was only 1%.

[mauriesy 7,287]

Maybe the China end of season money could have been better used as it seemed to have precipitated some problems in the playing group

The Tibetan plateau has an average elevation of 4500 metres. Maybe we could have trained there.

Perhaps it wouldn't yurt. B)

[PaulRB 6,362]

Why not just go to Falls in Summer (1600-1800m) with facilities...? Altitude Training - Falls Creek if the club can't afford it perhaps we should raise some money for it..?

Carn Dees

[Demon Dynasty 17,109]

We haven't had one game this year where the difference was only 1%.

Gold

[Demon Dynasty 17,109]

The Tibetan plateau has an average elevation of 4500 metres. Maybe we could have trained there.

Perhaps it wouldn't yurt. B)

Absolute Gold.

As an aside, makes you wonder what the hell we were doing sending our club for an AFL demo in China (like they're going to form a potential supporter base/league or an international team...WTF?) and then supposedly leaving them to fluff around for 10 days or so afterwards.

I realise it may have been an end of season junket on the back of the demo in order to save the club a few $$ maybe (yeh i have no idea....just pontificating). But we seem to do alot of amateur things at this club a little too often it seems.

Maybe we should've asked the AFL to hold the demo in Arizona instead....

[Demon Dynasty 17,109]

Why not just go to Falls in Summer (1600-1800m) with facilities...? Altitude Training - Falls Creek if the club can't afford it perhaps we should raise some money for it..?

Carn Dees

I think Hang is correct here re the professional side of things (in AZ) making it probably so much above and beyond the amateur on offer at Falls/NZ. But then there's the advantage argument vs $ spent side. Maybe this is for us in the short term. Need $ to set a program and run it professionally regardless.

Then you have the Cats etc not doing argument.

There's so much else we need to get right at this point though. This to me would be a nice icing on the cake, but one which needs addressing once the other pieces of the puzzle are put in place....assuming they are at some stage ...not holding my breath

Edited August 6, 2011 by Rusty Nails

[Demon Dynasty 17,109]

Thats $55 000 / point seems a good investment to me!

Looking for a bit of value for your spend OD huh? Nice

[Guest hangon007]

HAHAHAHAH That is one of the funnier posts I have read,

The CLub couldn't even pay for the players to stay in Geelong in Friday so they could do a training session on Friday.

You are DREAMING!

hahahaha ... you missed the point of the thread again ... but thats common practice for you.

This you should change your name to SimpleMac B)

[Trisul 664]

If the club had, say, $140k, could they get reasonably elevated ?

[dee-luded 2,959]

Good point dee-luded

G'day daisy, cheers mate.. Yep, a good old compulsory dose of leather poisoning over summer plus some heavy weights work, would have a major impact on our boys, I do declare.

Once we've got 2 years of build into them, then they can become High Plains Drifters, if that helps.

[dee-luded 2,959]

The Tibetan plateau has an average elevation of 4500 metres. Maybe we could have trained there.

Perhaps it wouldn't yurt. B)

They may have been worried about Frost Bite.

And worried about the dreaded yeti !!!

If it doesn't yurt, it's no good...

[The O 39]

Didn't North Melbourne do some pre-season training at altitude in New Zealand this year?

What's the difference between altitude training in Arizona and NZ? (other than the cost)!

North didn't go to NZ - they went to Utah for altitude training.

I can confirm they spent 3 weeks there (at a cost of a little over $500k). The cost of the trip was 'supported' by 2 major North supporters (namely a former foster's chief and elder's executive) who are both on the North board. It was sold to these 2 backers and others as an elite training camp, where supporters could come and watch an elite training program close up and potentially use in their own personal/business lives.

I've been given the impression that North didn't see the immediate effects this year, but rather they expect the benefits to occur in 2+ years, as players learn how to push themselves that little bit harder and harder (due to the altitude).

Edited August 8, 2011 by The O