Tom Scully

[Guest hangon007]

There's far more chance of us picking up one or two of these 17 year olds than there is of Scully ending up at Richmond. Get my drift?

Nothing, absolutely nothing that has happened so far (unless Scully has signed ... which I believe he has not) has disadvantaged a 3rd party from getting involved.

Some would even argue, if he hasn't signed their position is strengthened. The 3rd party (who ever they may be) have shut their mouths are doing the smart thing. Patience is a virtue than blowing things out of portion and acting when the time is not right.

IMHO if Scully wanted to go to GWS he would have already signed. If Scully was 100% committed to us he would have already signed. But, IMHO he has done neither. No he has bought time, time is a valuable entity placed in the right hands, assuming they want to enter the war and win it. You dont enter wars to come second.

Hope you get my drift.

Edited July 18, 2011 by hangon007

[binman 41,923]

Jolly and Ball at the Filth say Hi!

So does Tarrant

[old55 22,758]

Nope you are right ... but they have FULL control over who the deal with.

Yes but that is a huge IF

- IF they want a particular player who has nominated for the mini draft

- IF they get the clubs to disclose to GWS who they are going to take

- IF they can find clubs to trade with who will not take that player

You have a pathological inability to see the most likely outcome, the world according to H007:

- Scully to Richmond not GWS

- A player will fetch a higher trade price if he's uncontracted

- and now ... GWS wont accept the best trade offer they can get for picks in the min-draft, they'll take something less from someone else who they hope wont pick the player they want

[Guest hangon007]

Don't think anybody is saying they want Scully to go, for the compensation picks...

But thats what you get, if he goes to GWS

Then you are in the hands of those nice blokes at GWS if you then can get what you want.

ahhhhh ... commence the battle for the 17YO's the higher the price the better ... better for who?

You know how you want to offer player x ... we dont want that player we want player y ... oh shivers. If you dont do that deal fine club y is offering a better player than you plus they are not interested in kid y because he is not what they want he is not the type player they want.

Sure you have a strong hand but their is no guarantee its going to be the winning hand ... or the hand that GWS want to be the winner if its not in their best interests.

[daisycutter 29,296]

Think you will find they traded them in prior to winning the premiership ...

But dont let the facts get in the way ... sounded good.

They'd also played two grand finals previously.

Anyway I thought your point was for 'premiership contender' teams.

The point is.......top teams find a way......not excuses......and don't you let facts get in the way either

[daisycutter 29,296]

Apologies to all posters

Please ignore my last two posts re top sides trading in big names

I didn't realise this was the Tom Scully thread which I self-banned from.....senior brain-fart

Won't happen again

[old55 22,758]

http://www.afl.com.au/news/newsarticle/tabid/208/newsid/118480/default.aspx

Rendell says GWS wants players not draft picks in the 2011 draft - but maybe draft picks that are good in any of the next 5 drafts will be more attractive.

[drdrake 3,117]

How will it cost us a second round pick? if a team with a pick before us offers a first rounder we would still need to use our first rounder due to it being after theirs no? we cant trade future picks ala NBA??

I not 100% sure but 98% Ox sure that for these 17yo kids you can trade future picks. There was an article in the HS last week about Adeliade no willing to give up 2012 picks to GWS. In regards to only giving up a round 2 selection, if our first pick in the draft is a 2nd round pick that is what we will give up for Viney, that is if we trade our first round pick to GWS for a 17 yo at this years trade period. Compensation and Priority picks aren't included for Father/Son picks.

[Guest hangon007]

Yes but that is a huge IF

- IF they want a particular player who has nominated for the mini draft

- IF they get the clubs to disclose to GWS who they are going to take

- IF they can find clubs to trade with who will not take that player

As I said above just depends on how under-handed Gubby, Sheedy & GWS want to be.

You have a pathological inability to see the most likely outcome, the world according to H007:- Scully to Richmond not GWS

I've never said he is going to Richmond. Read what I've said.

- A player will fetch a higher trade price if he's uncontracted

I've never said this. Think I'm on record as saying the contract is of little importance ... the price is dictated by the player, contracts are two ways streets.

- and now ... GWS wont accept the best trade offer they can get for picks in the min-draft, they'll take something less from someone else who they hope wont pick the player they want

See that word best ... massive word in the context of trading. Thats where your whole argument falls over.

Dont always assume clubs always trade for "best" available. OMG ... had that ever crossed you mind?

Might just be in GWS "best" interests to leave the best available on the table for a super draft ... UNLESS the deal is a rip snorter for them. But show me your picks before I go selling to the first bidder, I want this auction to go all the way.

Edited July 18, 2011 by hangon007

[Guest hangon007]

http://www.afl.com.au/news/newsarticle/tabid/208/newsid/118480/default.aspx

Rendell says GWS wants players not draft picks in the 2011 draft - but maybe draft picks that are good in any of the next 5 drafts will be more attractive.

Imagine some clubs might be prepared to give them both ... but you never know.

[rpfc 28,045]

It's not another story - it IS that story. 2011 1st rounders wont outbid 1st rounders that have a 5 year use-by-date. And a club would have to offer a very good player to trump those 5 year picks. We'd be in a very good position to snare those picks - or at least one of them with one of ours. We could add an experienced player like Bate to the mix - it could be a good deal for GWS.

If we lose Scully we want stars - even 17yo stars. You mentioned a 23-26yo star as a target and that would be lovely - but give me one feasible example.

The other story is the 'two' players story.

And it's bloody confusing this mini-draft thing...

And I haven't really thought through the 23-26 year old pool of players who can be pryed away form their clubs...

Who knows who will be on the table.

[drdrake 3,117]

Imagine some clubs might be prepared to give them both ... but you never know.

If we lose Scully, we should be one of them

[Guest hangon007]

you could say they chased a premiership at another club??? pushing them over the edge??

*Cough* Free agency *Cough*

I'm not sure the point you are trying to make ... but its not Ball & Jolly pushing them over the edge.

Its the winning of the premiership that pushed them over the edge ... you have to pay your players more.

So *Cough* Free agency *Cough* if you haven't noticed is not here yet ... yet they are on the edge.

Hence as I said above ... its a scare campaign ... no big deal. *Cough Cough Cough.*

PS Daisycutter ... Josh Fraser says Hi. A player that left a premiership club with the chance to extend his career. Oh that right he went to another club in a premiership window ... B)

Edited July 18, 2011 by hangon007

[Guest hangon007]

If we lose Scully, we should be one of them

I just want to be clear here ... if we lose Scully ... you want to now trade both players & the compo picks to GWS for the chance to get 17 YO's?

[old55 22,758]

I just want to be clear here ... if we lose Scully ... you want to now trade both players & the compo picks to GWS for the chance to get 17 YO's?

Yes, a trade of a mid-1st rounder good for 5 years + Matthew Bate to GWS for Jaeger O'Meara or similar.

[Guest hangon007]

There was an article in the HS last week about Adeliade no willing to give up 2012 picks to GWS.

hehehe ... no they will just give up their priority pick last year to another club thats still a live pick in 2012 draft. Geez you got to love that line of logic.

[Jordie_tackles 354]

I'm not sure the point you are trying to make ... but its not Ball & Jolly pushing them over the edge.

Its the winning of the premiership that pushed them over the edge ... you have to pay your players more.

So *Cough* Free agency *Cough* if you haven't noticed is not here yet ... yet they are on the edge.

Hence as I said above ... its a scare campaign ... no big deal. *Cough Cough Cough.*

PS Daisycutter ... Josh Fraser says Hi. A player that left a premiership club with the chance to extend his career. Oh that right he went to another club in a premiership window ... B)

You really dont take in much do you?

you said that clubs wont be able to pick up players, the fact that Collingwood recruited Tarrant, Ball and Jolly for what ever reason means they can, also Ball went for good money, but took a significant pay cut this year i believe to help with Cloke etc, im suggesting things will get worse, Ball being an example of people wanting to be part of success, yes he went prior to the premiership but he didnt go to Richmond he went to a successful club at the time who won i premiership.

Do you follow Basketball at all?, Lebron and Wade and Bosh all being paid less than market value to earn a premiership, weather successful or not, it happens

[Jordie_tackles 354]

Are you sure about Ball leaving for less pay? I think you will find it was the opposite.

Jolly left due to family reasons ... you are kidding yourself if you thought it would be any different under FA.

Bingo think you answered that yourself .... ahhh he gets a game? Better than being retired.

Thank you

I'm suggesting in reality clubs that win premierships will find it hard to do these "deals" due to lack of salary cap room. Take Collingwood last year they are struggling to hold onto their stars unless they take massively under what the market is pre-pared to pay ie Cloke & Swan

So how does that help them in free agency? ahhhh ... sorry but it doesn't. In reality in might actually cost them a player.

My original argument was that clubs at or close to a premiership will now be able to easily top up with quality older players when current ones retire extending windows, also that such players may join a team later in careers and sacrifice money to do so, which you disagree with, but suggest players will leave lower teams when 28+ to lengthen their careers, seems to me that you are contradicting yourself

I understand the salary cap im saying that players may sacrifice money not hundreds but if a few give up 50K each, it opens space etc, its off topic anyway

[Guest hangon007]

Yes, a trade of a mid-1st rounder good for 5 years + Matthew Bate to GWS for Jaeger O'Meara or similar.

Geez I'm going to enjoy this auction period. It took all of 10 minutes for supporters of clubs to start throwing in players as well as picks.

but .... hahaha ... its an auction, if Bate is the best they get offered maybe they will take it maybe they wont.

Does Bate want to go? Do GWS want Bate? Can GWS get better than Bate?

ahhhh ... we will all have to just wait and see.

[Sir Why You Little 36,587]

hehehe ... no they will just give up their priority pick last year to another club thats still a live pick in 2012 draft. Geez you got to love that line of logic.

Seriously...What is wrong with the Crows....There is a major problem over there which we Victorians are not privvy to....is it that they just wish to recruit their own players (S.A)????

[old55 22,758]

Geez I'm going to enjoy this auction period. It took all of 10 minutes for supporters of clubs to start throwing in players as well as picks.

but .... hahaha ... its an auction, if Bate is the best they get offered maybe they will take it maybe they wont.

Does Bate want to go? Do GWS want Bate? Can GWS get better than Bate?

ahhhh ... we will all have to just wait and see.

The picks we would get for Scully would put us in a strong position in the auction.

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/afl/could-melbourne-end-up-the-big-winner-for-losing-tom-scully/story-e6frf9jf-1226096389389

That's what the article says and that's what I've agreed with.

[Guest hangon007]

You really dont take in much do you?

you said that clubs wont be able to pick up players, the fact that Collingwood recruited Tarrant, Ball and Jolly for what ever reason means they can, also Ball went for good money, but took a significant pay cut this year i believe to help with Cloke etc, im suggesting things will get worse, Ball being an example of people wanting to be part of success, yes he went prior to the premiership but he didnt go to Richmond he went to a successful club at the time who won i premiership.

Do you follow Basketball at all?, Lebron and Wade and Bosh all being paid less than market value to earn a premiership, weather successful or not, it happens

Yeah but that has nothing to do with Free Agency ... it happens now.

With Free Agency ... its a scare campaign. All the examples that you quote are pre-FA. Its no big deal.

Crap ... "you said that clubs wont be able to pick up players" ...

[Guest hangon007]

The picks we would get for Scully would put us in a strong position in the auction.

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/afl/could-melbourne-end-up-the-big-winner-for-losing-tom-scully/story-e6frf9jf-1226096389389

That's what the article says and that's what I've agreed with.

As I said ... Jay is dreaming and beautiful propaganda for GWS. Well clubs if Melbourne lose Scully here is your starting price BOYS ... priority picks or "priority picks plus players."

But hey dont let me stop you there. Puts GWS in a good postion ... us well you have to wait and see.

But wait a second ... plenty water is still to go under the bridge.

Edited July 18, 2011 by hangon007

[Guest hangon007]

Shifter Sheahan i heard on the radio not long ago saying the first 20 picks this year are all Top Shelf. If we score 2 of them with Jack Viney, then we are doing fine.

Shifter is a very smart man.

[drdrake 3,117]

The picks we would get for Scully would put us in a strong position in the auction.

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/afl/could-melbourne-end-up-the-big-winner-for-losing-tom-scully/story-e6frf9jf-1226096389389

That's what the article says and that's what I've agreed with.

We have to be focused on retaining Scully and that should be a priority, but the club still has to consider its opportunties if we do lose Scully. The club in the media is supporting Tom and confident of retaining Tom but they would be behind close doors discussing what we do with out Tom.

I have posted before we can keep Tom which is a win, or we can lose Tom use the compensation picks we get well and still be winners. I want to keep Tom, but if we lose him we want the club to be on the front foot and get the best result out of an unfortunate situation.

Edited July 18, 2011 by drdrake