GWS will almost certainly take Mark Blake. Apart from that...

- Port will probably take a punt on Lobbe next year

- Adelaide definitely need one as a backup

- Richmond definitely need one.

Adelaide may persist next year and actually try to snare Jamar through free agency end of next year. Richmond, on the other hand, will be looking. I doubt Hampson or Gawn will go there - Gawn knows he could win a flag now and be #1 when Jamar retires, while Hampson is definitely #2 at Carlton.

Spencer in 2 years could be a quality 1st choice ruckman imho.

Unless he's stupid (<insert standard ruckman joke here>) he'll be able to read the writing that is faintly appearing on the wall...

I don't see much difference between Spencer and Andrew Browne, Spencer probably a better tap ruckman, Browne better below his knees, both unco by foot.

If they want Spencer they can have him.

Gawn won't go anywhere.

The Tigers are Gawn and also aren't going anywhere.

If we can get pick 11 for McLean I recon we can get Riewoldt for Gawn!!

Wow. How things have changed from 2 years ago. Jamar and Johnson where our only ruck options and both were not good enough. Now we have 4 rucks who are performing at a decent level.

If the club is smart it will retain Gawn and re-asses our ruck situation next year.

Then if we need we can trade one out for a decent pick.

I can't remember a time when a decent ruckman wasn't in demand.

If we can get pick 11 for McLean I recon we can get Riewoldt for Gawn!!

still wouldn't do the deal, tipping last years form was an aberration for Jack.

Wow. How things have changed from 2 years ago. Jamar and Johnson where our only ruck options and both were not good enough. Now we have 4 rucks who are performing at a decent level.

If the club is smart it will retain Gawn and re-asses our ruck situation next year.

Then if we need we can trade one out for a decent pick.

I can't remember a time when a decent ruckman wasn't in demand.

I would like to keep them all

We all saw how easily you can go from Champagne to river water a few weeks back.

Three of them went down on the same weekend.

1 for all year, second for 8 weeks and the main guy for 6 weeks.

I know it is not easy but lets hang onto them all in 2012.

They can look at Gawn all they want.

...on television during the finals 2012 onwards.

I completely agree, so I think we should be looking to see what we can get for Spencer.

As much as I think he'll be a good ruckman eventually, I think Gawn will be better and is the keeper of the 2.

It's a shame Spencer is coming off an injury, in a way, because I think it will lower his value on the open market.

We just have to hope other teams noticed him and that they have long memories.

Teams who'd be looking at ruckmen, imo: Port Adelaide, Adelaide, GWS, Richmond.

The substitute rule seems to have been hard on ruckmen, so I'd think Geelong, St Kilda and Hawthorn would also be keeping an eye out for a good deal on a ruckman.

1. I feel that even with only three games under his belt, our Gawnius Maximus is already well ahead of Jake Spencer - far more athletic, better tap work, OK at ground level for his experience and his size, reads the play well and either marks or brings it to ground when up forward. IMO he is the keeper of the two.

2. Sub rule - sure it really prevents teams from resting a ruckman, if that ruckman is one dimensional and can't "rest" forward or across HB - fortunately MJ and MG and SM have shown that they can go OK up forward, and SM does pretty well in defence. Unfortunately JS look far more uni-dimensional at best, and would have to rest on the bench, which the sub rule has almost made untenable.

It is a challenge for our match committee to at least in some games, match ups etc , fit these three in the team. I don't think it is out of the question, and one could develop into a semi-permanent forward who does ruck work. A nice dilemma for us to have.

I cant really see muck place for the four of them on our list.

PS - has anyone ever seen Jack Fitzpatrick in action other than the few pre-season games a couple of years back? Is he progressing at all re his injuries, and is he progressing as a footballer? Does he still exist - is he the new Nick Smith 426??

Seems like everyone is sniffing around the Demons kids. Perhaps they would be willing to trade for Jake Spencer instead who also has shown some promise.

Would be shattered to lose Gawn so early on. Hopefully this group can commit to the club and build a team that will be the envy of all.

If all our kids take the first big $$$ that are thrown at them then we are in deep s**t.

PS - has anyone ever seen Jack Fitzpatrick in action other than the few pre-season games a couple of years back? Is he progressing at all re his injuries, and is he progressing as a footballer? Does he still exist - is he the new Nick Smith 426??

The club gave him a new 2 year deal just recently so they certainly see something. He has had a horrible run with injuries.

He is also 200cm but from what i understand he is also lightening quick for a bloke that size.

Whilst he could play in the ruck, my bet is that he is being groomed as the big strong key forward who can pinch hit in the ruck to compliment the mobile big men in Watts and Cook.

Long, Long term prospect who just needs to get himself very fit and very strong and see how it goes from there...

If they give us Martin they can have Gawn.

The club gave him a new 2 year deal just recently so they certainly see something. He has had a horrible run with injuries.

He is also 200cm but from what i understand he is also lightening quick for a bloke that size.

Whilst he could play in the ruck, my bet is that he is being groomed as the big strong key forward who can pinch hit in the ruck to compliment the mobile big men in Watts and Cook.

Long, Long term prospect who just needs to get himself very fit and very strong and see how it goes from there...

Thanks for that - I heard great wraps on him when he first came to the club (with, as I recall, chronic fatigue - correct me if I am wrong) but he has really fallen off the radar. What is his current injury and how is it progressing?

If he looks at all like making it, I guess Jake may be the one who goes. I really can't see a list affording to have 5 ruckmen.

I too would be shattered if GM left, unless we got something special and proven for him, which we won't.

I would like to keep them all

We all saw how easily you can go from Champagne to river water a few weeks back.

Three of them went down on the same weekend.

1 for all year, second for 8 weeks and the main guy for 6 weeks.

I know it is not easy but lets hang onto them all in 2012.

Yeah, I would love to keep them all too. However I doubt we will be able to give all of them the game time they want.

Seems like everyone is sniffing around the Demons kids. Perhaps they would be willing to trade for Jake Spencer instead who also has shown some promise.

Would be shattered to lose Gawn so early on. Hopefully this group can commit to the club and build a team that will be the envy of all. If all our kids take the first big $$ that are thrown at them then we are in deep s**t.

Like a flock of Seagulls,,, trying to get us to cough up a tasty morsel under salary cap pressure.

PS - has anyone ever seen Jack Fitzpatrick in action other than the few pre-season games a couple of years back? Is he progressing at all re his injuries, and is he progressing as a footballer? Does he still exist - is he the new Nick Smith 426??

I saw one of his first games for the year with Casey reserves v Frankston reserves earlier on. He kicked 6 but could have easily been 8 or 9, was a class above that level. Was called into the Casey seniors the following week where he kicked an early goal before he got injured in that openning term.

I'm a really big wrap for Jack and reckon he and Cook will be battling it out for our FF position in the next 2 years.

I saw one of his first games for the year with Casey reserves v Frankston reserves earlier on. He kicked 6 but could have easily been 8 or 9, was a class above that level. Was called into the Casey seniors the following week where he kicked an early goal before he got injured in that openning term.

I'm a really big wrap for Jack and reckon he and Cook will be battling it out for our FF position in the next 2 years.

Good to hear, let's hope he can recover from the knee then.

Do you reckon Fitz has the body makeup to turn into that hulking monster of a FF we're crying out for?

Or (for those who have seen him) Cook?

Like a flock of Seagulls,,, trying to get us to cough up a tasty morsel under salary cap pressure.

Salary cap pressure ?

If any club is under salary cap pressure it's Collingwood and Carlton .... not us .

I saw one of his first games for the year with Casey reserves v Frankston reserves earlier on. He kicked 6 but could have easily been 8 or 9, was a class above that level. Was called into the Casey seniors the following week where he kicked an early goal before he got injured in that openning term.

I'm a really big wrap for Jack and reckon he and Cook will be battling it out for our FF position in the next 2 years.

Thanks Tall Defence

That's good news - what is his current injury and how is it progressing?

As I mentioned, he came highly rated, so it would be great for someone of his height to come along and star.

Salary cap pressure ?

If any club is under salary cap pressure it's Collingwood and Carlton .... not us .

Yes, maybe, but we all know that Carlton anyway can do what they like outside the official cap.

There is more teams other than Richmond with a shortage of Ruckman

Ruck Stocks

Keep

Jamar

Martin

Gawn

Fitzpatrick

Campbell

Trade Bait

Spencer

Delist

Newton

The only other Tall we might have trouble keeping is Warnock

Something (or someone) has gotta give.

Jamar, Martin, Gawn, and Spencer are a good group but we might have to decide who we move on because Jamar will be around for a few years yet and Martin is looking like he will too, Gawn or Spencer may see some time but not both.

I agree. Carlton faced a similar scenario when the Crows head hunted a ruck in big Sammy Jacobs.

Port Adelaide are also in the market for a ruck.

Salary cap pressure ?

If any club is under salary cap pressure it's Collingwood and Carlton .... not us .

What salary cap. These two clubs do as they want with all the under the table deals they have with Vlad's permission.

We have to keep Max Gawn. Obviously a lot of clubs will circle and make offers etc... They would be mad not to. But looking at his Casey and Melbourne form, Gawn has skill, aggression, ruck nouse, can take a mark and he is HUGE. Spencer's position looks the most vulnerable because Fitzpatrick has shown little so far. I would be happy to offer Spencer if we had to absorb any ruck trade pressure.

.

Good to hear, let's hope he can recover from the knee then.

Do you reckon Fitz has the body makeup to turn into that hulking monster of a FF we're crying out for?

Or (for those who have seen him) Cook?

Cook definatly has the makeup to turn into the hulking monster (David Neitz type) FF that we're after IMO, whether or not he does, time will tell.

As for Fitzpatrick I see him more of a Paddy Ryder/Justin Longmuire type forwar/ruck. More of a lead up player who can use their pace rather then the hulking type. As his upper body strength improves though I'm more then confident he'd be able to hold his own in pack mark situations.

Thanks Tall Defence

That's good news - what is his current injury and how is it progressing?

As I mentioned, he came highly rated, so it would be great for someone of his height to come along and star.

He's listed as being a 'test' with his ankle for this week so fingers crossed he plays for Casey reserves. Give it a couple of weeks and he'll be back in the Casey seniors very quickly IMO.

Although having said that with Casey having Fevola, Dunn, Bate, Cook, Gawn and Campbell all available also it'll be difficult to get in. Starting to see the issues of Fevola being a Casey listed player.

Contradiction in statements. If you do think he is a 1st choice ruckman .... why are you wanting to off laod him?

You can think what you want ... its not what we think thats important in this debate.

If you do think Spencer is a 1st choice ruckman ... you keep him then.

I'm more interested in Gawn ... you cant have two first choices can you? Not with the modern sub-rule. But if you want to talk Jamar & Martin ... geez I will listen too.

Not a contradiction at all, you just need to pay attention to detail.

I already said I favour Gawn over Spencer. Spencer may become a decent 1st choice ruckman, but Gawn will be a better 1st choice ruckman.

You do understand the concept of a "1st choice ruckman" don't you?

He's the one that plays mainly in the ruck and the 2nd ruckman relieves him when he needs a rest.

And Stef Martin is almost a prototypical 2nd ruckman.

It's all pretty simple.