Morton will go to GWS

[Captain Jack Jordan 32]

Did you just quote HT's post ? I thought you frowned upon such underhanded methods of debate comrade.

On Morton I have my own personal opinion. Regardless of his intensity or waivering lack of it I just don't believe he has the tools to become the quality player that many had hoped.

His post from yesterday -yes .Not 2009.

I would love it if Morton could be holding a premiership cup aloft in 2013.

HT can get my posts out then and stuff em up my bridge for all I care .

The Jury is out on Morton until the end of season- but I think he needs 3 or 4 really good games to stay with the Dees - and no more pathetic efforts .

[rpfc 28,052]

His post from yesterday -yes .Not 2009.

I would love it if Morton could be holding a premiership cup aloft in 2013.

HT can get my posts out then and stuff em up my bridge for all I care .

The Jury is out on Morton until the end of season- but I think he needs 3 or 4 really good games to stay with the Dees - and no more pathetic efforts .

Jeez, you're as precious as Cale Morton...

[H_T 3,032]

You often tell people to be "careful" when they challenge/disagree with you HT .

Using glib little schoolgirl phrasing like "build a bridge" when I point out your pedantic drudgery.

I've very rarely (once in a blue moon - when does that happen ? ) told people to be "careful", and since you joined on 6th June '11 (one month ago) this year, I reckon I've only stated it once - this instance.

IIRC I also suggested to PM me if you wanted to discuss it further.

I'll carefully suggest you tell me your opinion on Morton (the topic remember)

and whether we should go around for us next year or not .

Morton seems to prefer point scoring opportunities without any real commitment to those doing the unpleasant business .

I would be happy to oblige. I have admittedly been a critic of Morton's form to date this season, for good reason. Even though he was drafted in 2007, his first two years were a shining light in very bleak years. He has his faults as far as a total package goes, in terms of contested ball. I think his disposal is quite good, his overhead marking has improved eventhough this season we've seen little of it. I have been disappointed at times with his decision making (indecisiveness) and him not using the first option. He has been the sub a couple of times (IIRC) and I have thought he has struggled with the tempo once taken to the field. I see him lacking in confidence. Defensively he needs to improve and needs to get to contests better (utilise his height) and not sit back when it suits.

I believe the FD are in the best position to improve his apparent deficiencies and he himself needs to work out what is best for him with his football. In other words he needs to pull his finger out and work harder and apply his strengths on a more consistent basis. He is a very handy utility to have IMO. Despite his current weaknesses that he has shown this year which admittedly are frustrating.

Let's not forget he is a 192/3cm slender 21 year old.

And I find it quite premature that anyone would rule a line through him at this stage.

Now I'll go and build my bridge-you can live under it when I'm finished .

I'll be content and happy to camp out under it, if it's ever completed.

[Captain Jack Jordan 32]

HT ,

The bridge is nearly ready for opening and I invite you to cut the ribbon .

Thank you for posting your thoughts on CM and his short-comings as a player .

A forum such as this should be open to a broad range of opinions and topics and I hope it remains so .

You will find I have a rebellious streak that emerges perhaps from living in a PC nanny state .

I dont think we need to have any more private chats as I, like other lunatics on this forum ,derive my cheap thrills from airing my views publicly .

I don't doubt the skills in CM's bag of tricks .

He really needs to throw himself into the contest more and I will shut-up ,retract and repent .

Hate to see Demons tearing each other (and their players) to pieces when times are tough .

It's a large part of being kicked around for nearly 50 years and it happens when the chips are down .

When we are bad ,we are really bad ,and I think the long term approach DB has taken will work soon.

I only hope it doesn't give some of these 50+ gamers the wrong idea .

Sadly for Morton ,he has that stunned look on his face ,which he can't help .

he also has a loping ,lanky body that can look nonchalant .

3 or 4 courageous acts ,a broken nose ,a cut eyebrow , reversing into traffic or something similar ,would end this thread . Does he have the spirit of a warrior?

[clairen2805 0]

Let's not forget he is a 192/3cm slender 21 year old.

And I find it quite premature that anyone would rule a line through him at this stage.

So was Brent Grgic when the demons moved him on.....would you have kept him longer??

[Real Demon 232]

So was Brent Grgic when the demons moved him on.....would you have kept him longer??

Tell me you're not comparing Brent Grgic with Cale Morton...........you're not serious are you?

[jnrmac 19,905]

Even though he was drafted in 2007, his first two years were a shining light in very bleak years. He has his faults as far as a total package goes, in terms of contested ball.

In 2008 Cale finsished 7th behind McLean and Miller.

In 2009 he finshed equal 9th behind Bate and Jones

You can have your opinion of course but I'd hardly call his performances over the two years a shining light. Although TBF it wouldn't have been hard given they were dark days.

What I see is not a loack of confidence, it's a lack of effort and intensity. That is a cancer in a team and one where good sides wouldn't tolerate it a la Krakoer earlier this year being dropped from the Magpie team.

With teams being so much coached around structures, a breaking down of that structure through discipline, effort, commitment, intensity or even confidence (if that's what it is) should be swiftly pounced on, denounced and eradicated.

Morton has for too long coasted or minced about in games. DOesn't deserve a game. Has been dropped and told what he needs to do to improve - hasn't had any effect. If we accept his current performances then we are stuffed as a club.

[H_T 3,032]

So was Brent Grgic when the demons moved him on.....would you have kept him longer??

So I take it you've put a line through Cale. Each to their own. Good question though, no.

In 2008 Cale finsished 7th behind McLean and Miller.

In 2009 he finshed equal 9th behind Bate and Jones

You can have your opinion of course but I'd hardly call his performances over the two years a shining light. Although TBF it wouldn't have been hard given they were dark days.

What I see is not a loack of confidence, it's a lack of effort and intensity. That is a cancer in a team and one where good sides wouldn't tolerate it a la Krakoer earlier this year being dropped from the Magpie team.

With teams being so much coached around structures, a breaking down of that structure through discipline, effort, commitment, intensity or even confidence (if that's what it is) should be swiftly pounced on, denounced and eradicated.

Morton has for too long coasted or minced about in games. DOesn't deserve a game. Has been dropped and told what he needs to do to improve - hasn't had any effect. If we accept his current performances then we are stuffed as a club.

They weren't bad results for a first year player. Where did Tom finish last year in a younger side ? (Just saying)

Ok shining light is subjective...and I was looking for a better term tbh. But he was one of the good news stories out of those years. Granted there was not much good news around then. Like I've said before on Cale, I've been disappointed as any given his output and lack of effort and poor decisions among the playing group. I would prefer to see him play out this year where and when warranted first and foremost. Btw I agree with your last two paragraphs.

[stevethemanjordan 6,952]

Cale Morton has never been and never will be an AFL level footballer.

Useless possessions count for zilch for those that enjoy arguing.

Unless a miracle occurs, he will never live up to the hype that surrounds him in these

parts.

Once again, I will ask the question...

What football related attributes does he possess? Please someone inform me.

The guy should be running alongside Craig Motram, not playing AFL.

Where are all the posters who claimed superstardom!?

Ha!

Edited July 10, 2011 by stevethemanjordan

[H_T 3,032]

Useless possessions count for zilch for those that enjoy arguing.

Agree. And effective and good execution possessions (left/right foot) are of great importance.

[Guest hangon007]

Cale Morton has never been and never will be an AFL level footballer.

Useless possessions count for zilch for those that enjoy arguing.

Unless a miracle occurs, he will never live up to the hype that surrounds him in these

parts.

Once again, I will ask the question...

What football related attributes does he possess? Please someone inform me.

The guy should be running alongside Craig Motram, not playing AFL.

Where are all the posters who claimed superstardom!?

Ha!

Surely its work in progress and hopefully as a Melbourne supporter potential superstardom.

But it begs the question ... What is the alternative & how does that make us a better side?

[old55 22,853]

I've very rarely (once in a blue moon - when does that happen ? )

http://www.skyandtelescope.com/observing/objects/moon/3304131.html?showAll=y&c=y

[bjDee 1,249]

Surely its work in progress and hopefully as a Melbourne supporter potential superstardom.

But it begs the question ... What is the alternative & how does that make us a better side?

True. But also in reverse - if Morton were playing for another side, would we bother to try chasing him? I wouldn't want our recruiters to do that.

[beelzebub 23,200]

Surely its work in progress and hopefully as a Melbourne supporter potential superstardom.

But it begs the question ... What is the alternative & how does that make us a better side?

Progress ?? thats the question erally isnt it.. progress or Stagnation !!...if its progress , then its slowed to a snails pace.

The alternative is to cut and run...to choose to redeemwhat ever market value is gettable and put that towards another kid , or indeed other player if looking to pick up a ready goer.

The club without doubt is in the box seat to know his true value going forward but it might decide to play on other club's not-so -deep knowledge and seek to unload him.

Everyone's all but happy to come up with this excuse or that as to why he's underachieving... I let that simple observation carry its own veracity..i.e He's an underachiever. Move him on.

[Guest hangon007]

Progress ?? thats the question erally isnt it.. progress or Stagnation !!...if its progress , then its slowed to a snails pace.

The alternative is to cut and run...to choose to redeemwhat ever market value is gettable and put that towards another kid , or indeed other player if looking to pick up a ready goer.

The club without doubt is in the box seat to know his true value going forward but it might decide to play on other club's not-so -deep knowledge and seek to unload him.

Everyone's all but happy to come up with this excuse or that as to why he's underachieving... I let that simple observation carry its own veracity..i.e He's an underachiever. Move him on.

Yeah ... but for what? This is the key question ...

Had St Kilda listen to its supporters Goddard would have gone ...

Players mature, improve at different rates. Too many around here want to "move on" players without looking for reasons. (Poor pre-seasons put you behind the 8 ball all year)

IMHO we have time on our side with Cale. Give the bloke a break.

Edited July 10, 2011 by hangon007

[jnrmac 19,905]

Yeah ... but for what? This is the key question ...

Had St Kilda listen to its supporters Goddard would have gone ...

Players mature, improve at different rates. Too many around here want to "move on" players without looking for reasons. (Poor pre-seasons put you behind the 8 ball all year)

IMHO we have time on our side with Cale. Give the bloke a break.

That is such a pathetic point about pre-season. I'm sorry but Cale had a finger injury. How is it that he is 'behind the 8 ball'?? Really. If he had a knee injury or hammy I would not disagree with you.

His issue is with COMMITMENT, INTENSITY, URGENCY and CHASING. The rest I could wait for but if I don't see these four things he can go as far as I am concerned. look at Bartram, Evans, Bail, Nicholson and Jordie. If Morton had 1/10th the commitment of these guys I would keep him. But he has shown zip.

And BTW....

Goddard took 7 years but showed a lot more than Morton. Morton has regressed since his 20th game. There has been zero improvement. He doesn't deserve to hang around for another 3 for us to find out.

Edited July 10, 2011 by jnrmac

[Guest hangon007]

That is such a pathetic point about pre-season. I'm sorry but Cale had a finger injury. How is it that he is 'behind the 8 ball'?? Really. If he had a knee injury or hammy I would not disagree with you.

His issue is with COMMITMENT, INTENSITY, URGENCY and CHASING. The rest I could wait for but if I don't see these four things he can go as far as I am concerned. look at Bartram, Evans, Bail, Nicholson and Jordie. If Morton had 1/10th the commitment of these guys I would keep him. But he has shown zip.

And BTW....

Goddard took 7 years but showed a lot more than Morton. Morton has regressed since his 20th game. There has been zero improvement. He doesn't deserve to hang around for another 3 for us to find out.

Ok ... emotional post... I'm not saying I agree with it. But ... you have to answer the key question .... What do you want in return?

[stevethemanjordan 6,952]

Ok ... emotional post... I'm not saying I agree with it. But ... you have to answer the key question .... What do you want in return?

A player who will at least show that he wants to be playing AFL football.

The guys above have nailed it. Urgency, hunger, want for the ball, etc etc.. These are basics which should be integrated slowly into

Morton's game. Problem is, he hasn't even shown a whimper in this side of the game. No improvement.

So what are his strengths? Does this lack of ability to win his own ball mean that he's an outside player? No! Because his kicking skills and

decision making are nearly as bad as his contested ball winning ability and desire.

How can a number 4 pick possess neither one of these basic AFL skills? Not an outside player. Not an inside player.

A tall skinny kid that has elite endurance. No recruiter gets it right 100% of the time.

It's reality demons supporters.

Stop with the "he didn't have a pre season" bullshite. Look at Tapscott. Look at Jeremy Howe. Look at rookie listed players like Nicholson.

None of them have had pre seasons? I was playing footy against Nicholson last year and the guy has barely had a pre season.

Edited July 11, 2011 by Fan

[Supermercado 2,784]

Agreed that you can't blame a pre-season for somebody not looking like they're interested. If he's not right or isn't confident in some part of his body then send him to a physio/psychiatrist, don't just hope for the best sending him out there to look stupid week after week because that's not helping anybody.

We're teetering on the edge at the moment, and even though we're almost certain to be cannon fodder in the finals if we do make it let's at least have a proper go until the season is over and they can afford to do social experiments.

[rpfc 28,052]

Guy's a talent.

We would get nothing for him now. Unless GC-Clayton come to us.

Let's keep working on him for a bit longer.

We said the same thing about Watts' physicality and Jamar's stalled career, we gave Sylvia a sh!teload of time, and complained about Garland's slight frame.

[jnrmac 19,905]

A player who will at least show that he wants to be playing AFL football.

The guys above have nailed it. Urgency, hunger, want for the ball, etc etc.. These are basics which should be integrated slowly into

Morton's game. Problem is, he hasn't even shown a whimper in this side of the game. No improvement.

So what are his strengths? Does this lack of ability to win his own ball mean that he's an outside player? No! Because his kicking skills and

decision making are nearly as bad as his contested ball winning ability and desire.

How can a number 4 pick possess neither one of these basic AFL skills? Not an outside player. Not an inside player.

A tall skinny kid that has elite endurance. No recruiter gets it right 100% of the time.

It's reality demons supporters.

Stop with the "he didn't have a pre season" bullshite. Look at Tapscott. Look at Jeremy Howe. Look at rookie listed players like Nicholson.

None of them have had pre seasons? I was playing footy against Nicholson last year and the guy has barely had a pre season.

Wake the fark up.

+1

[stevethemanjordan 6,952]

Guy's a talent.

We would get nothing for him now. Unless GC-Clayton come to us.

Let's keep working on him for a bit longer.

We said the same thing about Watts' physicality and Jamar's stalled career, we gave Sylvia a sh!teload of time, and complained about Garland's slight frame.

rpfc,

I really wish I could see this talent you continue to rave about.

Watts has clearly shown more improvement, has been on the list for less time and also played half the amount of

games. On top of that he is a number 1 draft pick and we all know what he has copped since being drafted. Look

at him now.

Watts and Morton are similar in the sense that they probably haven't ever had to 'earn' a spot in their sides

throughout junior footy and U18's, (footy before AFL). Watts has clearly shown how much he wants to improve

and get the best out of himself. He has improved out of sight this season. Morton still looks like a first year

player out there.

Jamar is a ruckman. Couldn't get regular game time under Daniher. As soon as the number 1 ruck spot was up for grabs

he took it and hasn't let go. Has only played about 50 or so more games than Morton and look at him? AA last year.

Sylvia had chronic injuries, disciplinary issues but we all knew he could play. You know it yourself. You can't

compare Sylvia's talent to Cale Morton's. I mean seriously.

None of the comparisons are accurate man.

AFL is cut throat and just because he is a Melbourne listed player, doesn't mean we as Melbourne supporters should

be patient for every one of them to 'come good'. It's simply not thinking with your head. It's an issue that most

supporters have. We become infactuated with most players on our list and when it comes to a number 4 draft pick

like Morton we simply can't believe that he won't become that 'superstar'.

I'm not willing to persist with a player that is taking this long to improve such basics. Comparisons with Goddard

are also laughable.

Trade him while he still has some value.

[rpfc 28,052]

I'm not willing to persist with a player that is taking this long to improve such basics. Comparisons with Goddard

are also laughable.

Trade him while he still has some value.

I didn't compare any one player to another.

I compared the constant criticism of a player's softness - Goddard and Watts.

I compared the time it took for a player to wake up and take their finger out - Sylvia.

I compared the time we gave a player to reach an acceptable standard - Jamar.

I compared the a player with a slight frame who has become a very good player - Garland.

It isn't as simple as a direct comparison to another player - Cale has a lot of work to do to be a solid AFL player.

What I am saying is that we have had patience with talented players before and we will again - whether we have it with Cale I don't know.

But the benefits of letting him continue at the club may outweigh the third round pick we would get for him...

Edited July 11, 2011 by rpfc

[stevethemanjordan 6,952]

I didn't compare any one player to another.

I compared the constant criticism of a player's softness - Goddard and Watts.

I compared the time it took for a player to wake up and take their finger out - Sylvia.

I compared the time we gave a player to reach an acceptable standard - Jamar.

I compared the a player with a slight frame who has become a very good player - Garland.

It isn't as simple as a direct comparison to another player - Cale has a lot of work to do to be a solid AFL player.

What I am saying is that we have had patience with talented players before and we will again - whether we have it with Cale I don't know.

But the benefits of letting him continue at the club may outweigh the third round pick we would get for him...

?

But you must consider all variables even if it is only 'time' that you're comparing?

We are talking about basic improvement rpfc.

The 'time argument' is nonesense. If he had a strength to his game then you could argue that it may take 'time'

to develop another aspect of his game.

All of those above you you just pointed out have already had a particular strength to their game.

Morton has had all the time in the world, all the free games in the world, and has shown a 1 % improvement in

all areas of his game which frankly, is being generous !

[Guest hangon007]

rpfc,

I really wish I could see this talent you continue to rave about.

Watts has clearly shown more improvement, has been on the list for less time and also played half the amount of

games. On top of that he is a number 1 draft pick and we all know what he has copped since being drafted. Look

at him now.

Watts and Morton are similar in the sense that they probably haven't ever had to 'earn' a spot in their sides

throughout junior footy and U18's, (footy before AFL). Watts has clearly shown how much he wants to improve

and get the best out of himself. He has improved out of sight this season. Morton still looks like a first year

player out there.

Jamar is a ruckman. Couldn't get regular game time under Daniher. As soon as the number 1 ruck spot was up for grabs

he took it and hasn't let go. Has only played about 50 or so more games than Morton and look at him? AA last year.

Sylvia had chronic injuries, disciplinary issues but we all knew he could play. You know it yourself. You can't

compare Sylvia's talent to Cale Morton's. I mean seriously.

None of the comparisons are accurate man.

AFL is cut throat and just because he is a Melbourne listed player, doesn't mean we as Melbourne supporters should

be patient for every one of them to 'come good'. It's simply not thinking with your head. It's an issue that most

supporters have. We become infactuated with most players on our list and when it comes to a number 4 draft pick

like Morton we simply can't believe that he won't become that 'superstar'.

I'm not willing to persist with a player that is taking this long to improve such basics. Comparisons with Goddard

are also laughable.

Trade him while he still has some value.

Ok ... so what is his value? Name your price?

Its easy to criticise but explain to me the alternatives. How you would get a deal done in this draft.

Please dont say " ah player that want to play AFL football" thats insulting ... they all want to play.

Edited July 11, 2011 by hangon007