We need a full-forward to kick 8

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

Yep. What i was saying was, i personally think it helps having them there rather than not having them.

Ditto the above for your one player centric comment below lol.

Fair enough and fair comment.

I can't see a player the ilk of Jakovich sucking the life out of 'everyone else' at all. Not on match days anyway. Maybe off the field if he was behaving like a donk sure. Now who does that remind me of lol. But, provided he had half a brain off the field, i personally think it's a huge lift to those around on match days.

Others can feed off his bullocking/contested work (if you have some decent crumbing mosquito types) and the accuracy that a KPF would bring on many occasions, could be the difference during close home & away games. I witnessed him play on many occasions (as i'm sure you did), and IMO he lifted those around him, they seemed to grow a leg when he was up and about.

There must have been another Jakovich at MFC. The No 13 with the mullet that I knew was a lone cowboy on the forward. Euphemesitically known as the Pope because he wouldnt pass the bill. When he was hot he was a world beater. When he was cold he was terrible. And there were frequently displays of both with Jako. Often the showman when doing well but sometimes a maverick donkey. When he arrive on the scene his previously suffocated an in form Darren Bennett. What a skill set but what a mixed bag of performances. The problem was week to week, quarter to quarter you never knew which Jako would appear...the match winner or the chump

I very much doubt whether the Hawks could have had such an amazing run during their 80's (and 91) era of dominance without their two KPFs in the team, just being reliant on a power mid field and some balanced B graders up forward.

They had Dunstall and Brereton arguably amongst the greatest FF and CHFs ever. Its hardly a good test case. And the emphasis of the game has changed in the past 20 to 30 years. But I do believe Dunstall's style of playing would make him valuable in the modern game. Strong offensively and defensively.

Overall, i think we're pretty much in agreement as far as i can tell RR, the exception being you would reject a KPF (or at least one like Jakovich) in your team preferring to having a balanced/solid mid field that can kick the teams goals, whereas i would happily take both (and no i'm not saying i would only consider a reincarnation of Jakovich as such, just that i would take him or someone similar if i was lucky enough to have someone gift us that fairytale and offer us the option).

Cheers mate

B)

Having a capable fwd over not having one is a no brainer. But its not a critical in the modern game as having the premiership quality midfielder. Top teams get their goals from a spread of options reflecting their ability to find holes in the opposition defence to penetrate.

[dee-luded 2,959]

What about one from left field ... Would you consider Brian Lake, assuming the Dogs have to rebuild, you would think you would get him for a second round pick. He is flexible, top quality defensive skills, started as a full-forward and out of favour at the Dogs.

Still gives you the option of moving Watts back & forward.

ie Your Key Backmen - Frawley & Garland, Key Forward - Jurrah & Howe or Cook, Swingers Watts & Lake

His only negatives are salary & age ... just a thought.

Hmmn, interesting, but Nup.

I think there's trouble between players over at doggieland, and I think Lake is in it as well. I don't know that it's worth the risk.

If we were to take a gamble,,,, I'd rather gamble on Fev, preferably as a rookie.

But not for high draft picks, for anyone.

[east gippsland demon 7]

come on boys just have a red hot bloody CRACK!!!! please head over footy and pride in the jumper that you are privelidged to be wearing....

[Dappa Dan 2,188]

Jurrah would/could have kicked six a few times now...

But it'll be Watts, I reckon.

[Demon Dynasty 17,109]

Having a capable fwd over not having one is a no brainer. But its not a critical in the modern game as having the premiership quality midfielder. Top teams get their goals from a spread of options reflecting their ability to find holes in the opposition defence to penetrate.

I'm goin with Billy on this one mate.

Decent targets up forward are needed, even if they aren't dominant on GF day. I'd still rather have a KPF or 2 rather than not have them (rather than just have an elite mid field) or at least 1 or 2 decent targets who may not be your atypical KFP if i was offered for general home and away plus finals. I don't see one as more critical than the other. I think they're both important to the team's structure and general success.

Classic example of needing a decent target is the move of Darren Jarman forward in the last quarter of the 97 GF against the Saints. Elite mid fielder, Andrew McLeod, was voted best afield that day winning the Norm Smith medal, but the Crows still needed a quality forward target to pull off the big one, coming from behind at half time.

There was also a cameo up forward from Shane Ellen earlier in the game, who covered for Modra, having been injured in the Prelim the week before. Another forward target assisting the cause, no doubt with the help of a very good mid field.

[Demon Dynasty 17,109]

There must have been another Jakovich at MFC. The No 13 with the mullet that I knew was a lone cowboy on the forward. Euphemesitically known as the Pope because he wouldnt pass the bill. When he was hot he was a world beater. When he was cold he was terrible. And there were frequently displays of both with Jako. Often the showman when doing well but sometimes a maverick donkey. When he arrive on the scene his previously suffocated an in form Darren Bennett. What a skill set but what a mixed bag of performances. The problem was week to week, quarter to quarter you never knew which Jako would appear...the match winner or the chump

I did say ..... "I always felt we could beat pretty much anyone when he was in the team, fully fit and in form"

Yes, your point is a good one re his unpredictability and what he might bring each week. I remember the side shows as well but can't agree on the Bennett comment. Bennett was a B grader forward in comparison, albeit probably more consistent from week to week. But even certain other KPFs are volatile. Fev a classic example, albeit not the greatest of examples lol. Plugger also went off the rails on occasions. As did Barry Hall. I guess it's the way they're made....born angry and like to bully lol. Don't think you'll find too many successful KPFs making it in the big league who play flakey footy.

My comments relate to when Jakovich was 'on' though. As i said earlier, I'm not saying i want a reincarnation of Jakovich. Just that i would take something like him (ie., a KPF) if i was offered that opportunity. And yes, the mid field elites too tyvm!

Edited June 4, 2011 by Rusty Nails

[Guest hangon007]

Hmmn, interesting, but Nup.

I think there's trouble between players over at doggieland, and I think Lake is in it as well. I don't know that it's worth the risk.

If we were to take a gamble,,,, I'd rather gamble on Fev, preferably as a rookie.

But not for high draft picks, for anyone.

Watched the Geelong game ... very interesting. Anybody who can stretch their backline is worth noting.

Lake at the "right" price could easily do the job. Assuming he commits to a full pre-season.

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

I'm goin with Billy on this one mate.

Decent targets up forward are needed, even if they aren't dominant on GF day. I'd still rather have a KPF or 2 rather than not have them (rather than just have an elite mid field) or at least 1 or 2 decent targets who may not be your atypical KFP if i was offered for general home and away plus finals. I don't see one as more critical than the other. I think they're both important to the team's structure and general success.

I dont think what I have highlight is a debateable issue. I would rather have Jack Watts than not have him. However if you have not got a matchwinning midfield then have a great KPF is going to be of reduced importance when the pill spends so much time at the other end

Classic example of needing a decent target is the move of Darren Jarman forward in the last quarter of the 97 GF against the Saints. Elite mid fielder, Andrew McLeod, was voted best afield that day winning the Norm Smith medal, but the Crows still needed a quality forward target to pull off the big one, coming from behind at half time.

There was also a cameo up forward from Shane Ellen earlier in the game, who covered for Modra, having been injured in the Prelim the week before. Another forward target assisting the cause, no doubt with the help of a very good mid field.

Neither Jarman or Ellen are KPFs. Both were tactical moves to cover short comings up forward. Both made their mark as midfield/ utilities. Jarman was a freak though.

The issue is not that you dont need them but in current game they are not important as that crack midfielder. And its notable McLeod won the 97-98 NSM and Adelaide won both flags without their gun KPF...Modra... Hmmmm

[dee-luded 2,959]

Watched the Geelong game ... very interesting. Anybody who can stretch their backline is worth noting.

Lake at the "right" price could easily do the job. Assuming he commits to a full pre-season.

I'd rather throw the Kitchen sink @ McKernan, than take an aged and chronic injured Lake.

Fev isn't a cripple,,,, But would have to Improve bigtime!!!!! He would really have to Mature a Long Way... I'm sure that if we looked hard to scour the overaged players in remote leagues, we could find a 'Temp', to hold the spot for a time.

[mdemonski2 403]

Fevola?

He might have another 4 years in him, long enough for our next premiership window.....next year.

imagine..

ff- Green Fevola Howe

hf- Jurrah Sylvia Davey

believing that Howe will be our next big thing.

Don't count on fev playing afl for anyone next year. Saw him at beach rd v sandy and (while he has def lost a few kilos) he has lost a yard of pace and hardly got near it. The game can pass you by so quickly and his time out of the game means he will probably never get back to his best. Especially now that all forwards need to apply forward pressure - it is just not in fev's nature.

[The Chazz 4,077]

Interesting to listen to the panel yesterday on that Channel 7 AFL show comment about how Collingwood is benefitting from having 2 KPFs, and that the Bulldogs would be wishing they had an extra target other than Hall.

Seems to be popular belief that having 2 bigger bodies that can play a role (they don't have to dominate) is a very important ingredient.

[tonatopia 278]

After watching Howe, I think he might have the tools to be a spectacular FF, also applying tremendous defensive pressure.

[dee-luded 2,959]

Don't count on fev playing afl for anyone next year. Saw him at beach rd v sandy and (while he has def lost a few kilos) he has lost a yard of pace and hardly got near it. The game can pass you by so quickly and his time out of the game means he will probably never get back to his best. Especially now that all forwards need to apply forward pressure - it is just not in fev's nature.

Yeah, I saw him. He was having an 'Off' day. that will happen in a rehab. Thats what I meant in 'Mature a Looong Way'.

And he will get picked up in this coming drafting period, by some team... The Question is where in the Draft, or Pre season/Rookie draft???

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

I did say ..... "I always felt we could beat pretty much anyone when he was in the team, fully fit and in form"

Yes, your point is a good one re his unpredictability and what he might bring each week. I remember the side shows as well but can't agree on the Bennett comment. Bennett was a B grader forward in comparison, albeit probably more consistent from week to week. But even certain other KPFs are volatile. Fev a classic example, albeit not the greatest of examples lol. Plugger also went off the rails on occasions. As did Barry Hall. I guess it's the way they're made....born angry and like to bully lol. Don't think you'll find too many successful KPFs making it in the big league who play flakey footy.

Up until Jako arrived on the scene in a big way against the Swans in 1991 , Bennett had 45 goals from the previous 10 rounds (including a haul of 8 and 6). If Watts or Jurrah did that we would be claiming they have arrived as stars!!! Bennett was capable and aside from the game where Jako burst onto the scene, was choked out of the play as Jako was a one man forward.

Fev is a bad example and is no benchmark of success. In comparison Jako was an angel. Both Lockett and Hall established themselves as top players and in Hall also as a good team player. But I note your qualification on Jako and they are considerable.

[dee-luded 2,959]

Interesting to listen to the panel yesterday on that Channel 7 AFL show comment about how Collingwood is benefitting from having 2 KPFs, and that the Bulldogs would be wishing they had an extra target other than Hall.

Seems to be popular belief that having 2 bigger bodies that can play a role (they don't have to dominate) is a very important ingredient.

TwO Right! As long as they have agility and Massive defensive pressure capabilities and desires to tackle.

Bosusto would be a Handy forwardline player these days.

[daisycutter 29,613]

Interesting to listen to the panel yesterday on that Channel 7 AFL show comment about how Collingwood is benefitting from having 2 KPFs, and that the Bulldogs would be wishing they had an extra target other than Hall.

Seems to be popular belief that having 2 bigger bodies that can play a role (they don't have to dominate) is a very important ingredient.

Good point and Collingwood really benefit with the big forwards Cloke and Dawes with Brown and Jolly drifting in too. Hard to counter when they are in form

[Rogue 585]

Interesting to listen to the panel yesterday on that Channel 7 AFL show comment about how Collingwood is benefitting from having 2 KPFs, and that the Bulldogs would be wishing they had an extra target other than Hall.

Seems to be popular belief that having 2 bigger bodies that can play a role (they don't have to dominate) is a very important ingredient.

I would have thought that this was pretty uncontroversial.

[Guest hangon007]

I'd rather throw the Kitchen sink @ McKernan, than take an aged and chronic injured Lake.

Ok I hear you. However, think McKernan would attract way tooo much competition ... therefore way too expensive.

I much prefer the "left-field" options. What about another left field option ... Callum Wilson West Coast. Watch him in a few games late last year ... looked very impressive. Cant get into the Eagles at the moment their foward line is flying ... gives us an opportunity to pick up a bargain. "Fevola" type with no baggage.

Edited June 7, 2011 by hangon007

[Harrisonrules 273]

What about me!?

Thanks for the humour

[Captain Jack Jordan 32]

Watts will kick bags when he gets a chance to play one on one .

Jurrah will kick Bags .

Bate will kick Bags

Howe will kick bags

Maric will kick bags

Martin ,Jamar ,Bennell , Jetta , etc will kick 4 or 5 on occasions .

The midfield will begin to crush teams and kick heaps

Right at the moment Fev is playing at a standard that suits him and he should remain there .

Any suggestion that a used Band-aid like Fev will pull on the Red and Blue ever must have been formed under the influence of LSD .

Why is he even in the Casey 1sts?

I like a drink sometimes but I don't turn into a 15 year old when I do .

Fev should be on the pine- in the stands .

Watts can kick through an open window from 55 .

Enjoy the inconsistencies while they last .

We will prevail .

[tonatopia 278]

Imagine jamar taking huge pack marks, big strong leads, kicking 8 a game. If neitz could kick 80 odd, so can Jamar. He can play out his career there for the next 5 years.

[Roost It 1,434]

Imagine jamar taking huge pack marks, big strong leads, kicking 8 a game. If neitz could kick 80 odd, so can Jamar. He can play out his career there for the next 5 years.

No he won't.

[tonatopia 278]

No he won't.

Why not, he kicked 5 in a quarter against the blues.

[daisycutter 29,613]

Why not, he kicked 5 in a quarter against the blues.

i seem to remember teddy hopkins kicked a bag in a half in a gf

didn't turn him into a star goalkicker

[Crompton's the man 659]

Jurrah at full forward how's that going? He may well kick 8 one day but it won't be at full forward

But even so he'll always be a decoy at the least, requiring the dedicated attention of a talented opponent.

It then becomes an issue of the ability of the alternatives.

After last week we can have a sense that with a talented midfield capable of capturing turnovers and catching the opposition on the hop,and kicking accurately and (necessarily) unpredictably it is the depth of the team - the "second tier" players who are the ones who can take us into the next level.

We've hoped all year to see that happen and been disappointed til now.

The last game should remind us that there is some developing talent in our list.

No doubt not all will make it - and some of those who do may be seduced elsewhere (hopefully not)

All in all we can have a reasonable degree of faith in the list managers - fair assessment?