Drop Davey?

[old55 23,546]

Alright, name me a game that he's had that has been anywhere near his best since the start of last season.

FFS! He got 3 Brownlow votes in BOTH games against Collingwood last year - and they were 2 of the best 3 games by the club. He is currently at a low but don't rewrite history.

[jonny_fraser 0]

How can we possibly drop him for having 1 shocking game?!?! He is an important player and we will need all the players we can get this week!

Surely we cannot drop Davey when we have players like Newton running around?!

[The Chazz 4,077]

I'm with you on this one, 'bub. He'd probably get BOG at Casey without getting out of second gear, and it would prove nothing. He needs to do it hard, not do it easy, and Blues would make sure he'd do it hard.

I'm up for a bit of ritual humiliation as much as the next masochist, but to do any good it needs to have a purpose. Cruising for 30+ possies at Casey isn't going to help us overcome the problem.

But as in a previous post, it sounds like it's all academic as the "soreness" card has been played.

I am amazed that some think that going back to Casey, getting BOG and racking up 30-odd possies is what is expected to return to the seniors. If he were to go back, I'm sure Bailey and co would have certain areas that he needs to work on, and if he doesn't meet those KPI's, they wont give a crap how many possessions he gets, he'll stay at Casey until he works on these areas.

Maybe B59, you are the one that isn't understanding a simple theory. I will put it this way for you, if Davey plays at Casey and gets 22 touches, but has 10 tackles - 6 of which are inside forward 50, 4 shepards, 2 smothers, creates half a dozen turnovers and kicks 2 goals, that would look more favourably with the coach rather than a cruisy 35 touches.

This is what we can use Casey for for our senior players that are out of form. If Flash can't do the former at that level, he will stay there until he can. They have ben his issues at senior level.

To think that he would be "hiding" down at Casey is really starting to unearth a sheer lack of football knowledge.

How can we possibly drop him for having 1 shocking game?!?! He is an important player and we will need all the players we can get this week!

Surely we cannot drop Davey when we have players like Newton running around?!

No-one said Newton was safe.

Edited May 25, 2011 by billy2803

[jonny_fraser 0]

No-one said Newton was safe.

[beelzebub 23,347]

I am amazed that some think that going back to Casey, getting BOG and racking up 30-odd possies is what is expected to return to the seniors. If he were to go back, I'm sure Bailey and co would have certain areas that he needs to work on, and if he doesn't meet those KPI's, they wont give a crap how many possessions he gets, he'll stay at Casey until he works on these areas.

Maybe B59, you are the one that isn't understanding a simple theory. I will put it this way for you, if Davey plays at Casey and gets 22 touches, but has 10 tackles - 6 of which are inside forward 50, 4 shepards, 2 smothers, creates half a dozen turnovers and kicks 2 goals, that would look more favourably with the coach rather than a cruisy 35 touches.

This is what we can use Casey for for our senior players that are out of form. If Flash can't do the former at that level, he will stay there until he can. They have ben his issues at senior level.

To think that he would be "hiding" down at Casey is really starting to unearth a sheer lack of football knowledge.

No-one said Newton was safe.

Billy I understand your theory fine. . I simply disagree with it. There is a vastly different tempo at that level. Degrees of effort arre different and I totaly refute your notion that simply suggesting that by my inferring he's hiding indicates any lack of knowledge. Football is no diffferent to a lot of things in life. Its that many make out that it is often gives easy "get out " clauses for unacceptable behaviour, whether it be worth ethic or social repsonsibilities..

Its easy to be king of the kids.. less so an adversary amongst men.

The notion that when teh Going gets tough, the tough get going refers to the idea that when its starts getting hard...you actually have to up the ante and apply one slef to more ardous tasks with even greater application.

The magoos is downhill skiing by comparison.

If in training you muff it.. you'll be tasked with extra laps. extra pushups, extra this and that...you dont go and get to swan around in the sand pit.

We simply differ, your entitled to

[The Chazz 4,077]

Billy I understand your theory fine. . I simply disagree with it. There is a vastly different tempo at that level. Degrees of effort arre different and I totaly refute your notion that simply suggesting that by my inferring he's hiding indicates any lack of knowledge. Football is no diffferent to a lot of things in life. Its that many make out that it is often gives easy "get out " clauses for unacceptable behaviour, whether it be worth ethic or social repsonsibilities..

Its easy to be king of the kids.. less so an adversary amongst men.

The notion that when teh Going gets tough, the tough get going refers to the idea that when its starts getting hard...you actually have to up the ante and apply one slef to more ardous tasks with even greater application.

The magoos is downhill skiing by comparison.

If in training you muff it.. you'll be tasked with extra laps. extra pushups, extra this and that...you dont go and get to swan around in the sand pit.

We simply differ, your entitled to

So, based on your opinion, we play Davey, but give him extra responsibilities by playing him in a position that is somewhat unfamiliar to what he has done. Does this then send out a message to all the playing group that we accept poor performances, and taking that further, we accept our players pulling out of marking contests at the fear of hurting ones self, but it's ok if you do these things because we'll "punish" you by playing you again next week but just changing your role. We had this attitude when we tanked, I'd like to think we have come a long way since those days.

How can it not send that message?

I think Aaron is very lucky that he can read more than 2 lines in our injury list.

Make him sub, (hopefully) bring him on late in the 3rd, and by that stage we will know if we are in the game or not. If we're not, start him in the guts, if we are in the game, play him on a half forward flank.

[beelzebub 23,347]

So, based on your opinion, we play Davey, but give him extra responsibilities by playing him in a position that is somewhat unfamiliar to what he has done

See , not so hard

. Does this then send out a message to all the playing group that we accept poor performances

Cant possibly see how.. Dont confuse the idea that hes still playing seniors with getting off scott free. Hes being asked to shoulder a heavier burden, to do more, to PROVE more. Hardly acceptance or condoning of poor performing.

, and taking that further, we accept our players pulling out of marking contests at the fear of hurting ones self, but it's ok if you do these things because we'll "punish" you by playing you again next week but just changing your role.

still dont get it huh.. Imnoty sayi gtta..you are. Im saying.. If you dont do what is asked of you, well ask twice..So which becomes the easier in the end. Do your job..do it well.

We had this attitude when we tanked, I'd like to think we have come a long way since those days.

Obviously some still think half hearted is still fine.. Its not.

How can it not send that message?

I think Aaron is very lucky that he can read more than 2 lines in our injury list.

Make him sub, (hopefully) bring him on late in the 3rd, and by that stage we will know if we are in the game or not. If we're not, start him in the guts, if we are in the game, play him on a half forward flank.

So youre suggesting.. wait until we're really behind 'then ' start himinthe guts... lets himsit out half a game...wghilst others do his work. Im simply suggesting he start at the start..and pay back his teammates for all the half efforts to date

[The Chazz 4,077]

See , not so hard

Cant possibly see how.. Dont confuse the idea that hes still playing seniors with getting off scott free. Hes being asked to shoulder a heavier burden, to do more, to PROVE more. Hardly acceptance or condoning of poor performing.

still dont get it huh.. Imnoty sayi gtta..you are. Im saying.. If you dont do what is asked of you, well ask twice..So which becomes the easier in the end. Do your job..do it well.

Obviously some still think half hearted is still fine.. Its not.

So youre suggesting.. wait until we're really behind 'then ' start himinthe guts... lets himsit out half a game...wghilst others do his work. Im simply suggesting he start at the start..and pay back his teammates for all the half efforts to date

I can clearly see what you're saying, but when the entire football community and us, the members, are asking this Club to stand for something, and the players are saying that we need to make a stand, you're just allowing the same old stuff that has been happening for the past decade or so.

What stand are you making by accepting a mediocre performance? What example are we setting to the rest of the team? Don't come this crap about extra responsibilities, blah, blah, blah, he has been Vice Captain all season, the extra responsibilities are always there, no excuse. I think you'll find that Davey has already been asked once this season, most probably the days after the West Coast game. He responded the next week, but does that mean we should expect to have to keep asking him after a poor performance? We shouldn't have to ask, he should already know.

He will be given an opportunity to "pay back" his teammates when he comes on. I don't want him given the opportunity to do that until later in the 3rd quarter. Others will not be doing "his" work, they will be doing their own work, which is hopefully the work of the entire team. Aaron should be given (ideally) the last 40 minutes of the game to do his work. Do you think if he were sitting there watching us get smashed for the first 2 quarters, knowing he can't get on until a sub has been made, that wouldn't pi$$ him right off? It should make him even more determined and hungry when he is given the opportunity.

[beelzebub 23,347]

Drop him and he really learns nothing.. He may serve a punishment of sorts..but what does he learn ?.

We obviously differ greatly on this one point. Fair enough.

At th emoment he only knows what he knows. Dropping to the magoos he stil lonly plays with what he knows. He needs to learn. From learning comes improvement and broadening of understanding.

He can do this by watching...at very close quarters , how someone who does all the right things, goes about it. He may learn.

I dont want to p!ss him off..I want him to DO. The most elementary aspect of our games, as a team, is we dont DO enough.

Seething liek some petualnt kid on the sidelines is..well childlike.

When you get chucked off a horse you get back on the horse... not a pony.

Billy..we simply disagree. Im happy to.

[The Chazz 4,077]

Drop him and he really learns nothing.. He may serve a punishment of sorts..but what does he learn ?.

We obviously differ greatly on this one point. Fair enough.

At th emoment he only knows what he knows. Dropping to the magoos he stil lonly plays with what he knows. He needs to learn. From learning comes improvement and broadening of understanding.

He can do this by watching...at very close quarters , how someone who does all the right things, goes about it. He may learn.

I dont want to p!ss him off..I want him to DO. The most elementary aspect of our games, as a team, is we dont DO enough.

Seething liek some petualnt kid on the sidelines is..well childlike.

When you get chucked off a horse you get back on the horse... not a pony.

Billy..we simply disagree. Im happy to.

Happy to disagree. Just disappointed that you of all people would accept a performance like that. I expect better from a senior player who is a role model for a number of our players, and think that he should be dealt with the same as it were anyone else.

[beelzebub 23,347]

Happy to disagree. Just disappointed that you of all people would accept a performance like that. I expect better from a senior player who is a role model for a number of our players, and think that he should be dealt with the same as it were anyone else.

Billy.. your making a huge mistake if you think Im accepting of such an insipid pathetic perormance such as displayed last week , and that only the aggregation of many others. Please dont for a minute think so.

Im simply suggesting theres more than one way to skin this cat. There, or here, we differ.

Yes he is a role model. So let him model a hrd and gruelling game. Let him accomplish that. Let him show others and in so do accomplish two things. First , his own learning and esteem. From this may come beeter games. Secondly. Let others watch and understand that even the likes of Davey can run foul of the FD and will be called to task and set new goals. Let him show his peers in real time, not via a hear say arangemettn off in the boonies.

Is there any part of this circle we've left off ?? lol

We dont differ in outr dissappointment....just our reaction..

cheers

[Sir Why You Little 37,033]

Drop him and he really learns nothing.. He may serve a punishment of sorts..but what does he learn ?.

We obviously differ greatly on this one point. Fair enough.

At th emoment he only knows what he knows. Dropping to the magoos he stil lonly plays with what he knows. He needs to learn. From learning comes improvement and broadening of understanding.

He can do this by watching...at very close quarters , how someone who does all the right things, goes about it. He may learn.

I dont want to p!ss him off..I want him to DO. The most elementary aspect of our games, as a team, is we dont DO enough.

Seething liek some petualnt kid on the sidelines is..well childlike.

When you get chucked off a horse you get back on the horse... not a pony.

Billy..we simply disagree. Im happy to.

Let's see how much he wants to play against his brother next week??

Play a Blinder at Casey Aaron & you might get there.

Rewarding Aaron with match payments this week against Carlton is just wrong on all fronts.

It's the exact reason opposition sides play themselves into form against us.

If Aaron plays this Friday i will be ringing the Club to show my complete disapproval.

[beelzebub 23,347]

Unless you know the nature of his contract there's nothing really to suggest he'd be penalized in that manner. I'd doubt it.

Might all be moot upon doctors advice ( all sounds terribly dodgy to me)

What I will cede would be that if avail for seniors and played this week in manner I suggest and he DIDNT apply himself 110% to the task , then , THEN , I'd drop him for about 2-3 weeks. I wouldn't expect him to necessarily excel etc but want himto have red hot go. If he couldn't musterthe enthusiasm nor understand the opportunity then hesimply doesn't deserve to be in the ones and he'd be staring at being offloaded come seasons end.

[Sir Why You Little 37,033]

Unless you know the nature of his contract there's nothing really to suggest he'd be penalized in that manner. I'd doubt it.

Might all be moot upon doctors advice ( all sounds terribly dodgy to me)

What I will cede would be that if avail for seniors and played this week in manner I suggest and he DIDNT apply himself 110% to the task , then , THEN , I'd drop him for about 2-3 weeks. I wouldn't expect him to necessarily excel etc but want himto have red hot go. If he couldn't musterthe enthusiasm nor understand the opportunity then hesimply doesn't deserve to be in the ones and he'd be staring at being offloaded come seasons end.

Sure, but by doing that you waste a week, and send a bad message of complacency to a young list...We must get rid of this attitude now.

Not next week.

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

Rewarding Aaron with match payments this week against Carlton is just wrong on all fronts.

Clearly you are not a lawyer.

That sort of action would really work well with his teammates as well.

Did you think he should be advised of this in front of the team?

It will get a terrific response from all the players and their managers.

Lets show'em that we dont accept mediocrity.

Go Dees.

[Sir Why You Little 37,033]

Clearly you are not a lawyer.

That sort of action would really work well with his teammates as well.

Did you think he should be advised of this in front of the team?

It will get a terrific response from all the players and their managers.

Lets show'em that we dont accept mediocrity.

Go Dees.

What are you talking about?

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

What are you talking about?

Actually that should have been my reply to your comment I quoted....

[DemonOX 8,791]

Davey is not VC material. Bring back Beamer and drop Davey from the leadership group. He was soft and pathetic on the weekend and needs to have a couple of games at Casey. I dont give a [censored] that we have injuries as its better to have someone in (Evans) who will give it a red hot go.

[Sir Why You Little 37,033]

Actually that should have been my reply to your comment I quoted....

No, you just took my comment to literally. Aaron's contract is not based on match payments, but last saturday he really did not deserve a wage.

[jacey 333]

Davey looks likely to miss a week or 2 with knee soreness.

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

No, you just took my comment to literally. Aaron's contract is not based on match payments, but last saturday he really did not deserve a wage.

I did take your comment literally but it was still a silly and meaningless comment given what you have stated and knew above.

[old dee 23,787]

Davey looks likely to miss a week or 2 with knee soreness.

well that fixes the drop problem

But who comes in?

Please do not tell me Bennell or Wona

They were terrible vs North and have not played a game since

Anybody else please

[QueenC 74]

Yes he is a role model. So let him model a hrd and gruelling game. Let him accomplish that. Let him show others and in so do accomplish two things. First , his own learning and esteem. From this may come beeter games. Secondly. Let others watch and understand that even the likes of Davey can run foul of the FD and will be called to task and set new goals. Let him show his peers in real time, not via a hear say arangemettn off in the boonies.

Not wanting to open up old wounds......

I completely understand your argument of throwing him in the fire. But I was curious Bub if there was a timetable on that?

I mean if he gets dropped he is stung and must therefore fight to prove himself and to regain the place he rightfully lost due to his ongoing poor performances (not just one),

but if he remains in the side and is told to work it out while wearing the blue and red then what are his para-metres? Obviously it is to fight to keep his spot,

but what if that doesn't happen, do you drop him anyway, only it's a couple of weeks later?

And how if this hypothetical occurs has anyone benefited? He hasn't, we haven't and I guarantee you the team won't. So my argument is very simple.

Rules apply to all. You don't get a pass to keep playing with this team if you aren't fully committed to playing for this team.

And by that I mean everything - running, chasing, tackling and not shirking your time nor your responsibilities, leadership or otherwise.

Some players will always get longer to show that they want to be out there, and poor form is an ever fluctuating (and frustrating) thing, but after awhile and

especially after the abysmal attitude and commitment we witnessed from a senior player and leader there has to be a full stop to him being automatically rewarded with the jumper.

[Jordie_tackles 354]

Drop him and he really learns nothing.. He may serve a punishment of sorts..but what does he learn ?.

We obviously differ greatly on this one point. Fair enough.

Aaron will learn that if you serve up ship on a plate then you dont get a game for the MFC.....

He will learn that if he doesnt play well, or with an sort of intent or desire, he still wont get a game for MFC

He will learn that if he doesnt put the team first and do what is best for them, and try and lead (as a VC should), THEN HE WONT GET A GAME FOR MFC

He may also learn that there could be a dozen guys playing at Casey who are putting in alot more than he is, and are possibly playing better also

Thats my thought

[QueenC 74]

Davey looks likely to miss a week or 2 with knee soreness.

But the whole argument seems to be moot now anyway ......