Moving Newton

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

I'm not a fan of Newton's but his first quarter was outstanding. Plain and simple.He marked, kicked goals, tackled to set up a goal, passed off to set up a goal. He was the reason we were in front. His move to the ruck was a poor decision. If Martin can't ruck for 30 minutes I'll stand on my head for an hour.

Wrong. Newton was the recipient of some great work in the first 20 minutes when MFC dominated the inside 50s (I think it was 11 to 3 on the radio). We were belting North in the midfield who were lazy and unaccountable. Newton did his doing job up forward. But it was from the midfield where the game was won. But the game changed at about the 21 minute mark and North started to haul us in. We folded like a pack of cards. We stopped winning the centre clearances and inside 50s. Goldstein took over. Newton was selected to play forward and pinch hit the ruck. Martin was rested to ensure he could have rucked for the majority of the match. I am not sure we lost much forward because when our midfield got beaten we rarely did move forward. And given you felt he was diong so much what better than to put him where the action was...in the centre. I would have backed Nev Jetta to have more impact at a centre bounce than Dunn.

[Curry & Beer 5,444]

who was the first person to use the term 'accpeting mediocrity' it must be the biggest cliche in the history of the sport. The stupidest thing about it is that mediocre actually means average but everyone uses to describe us being utterly terrible

anyway, Newton played very well at the start there, there was a huge tackle there that Watts turned into a goal that I was most impressed with. To move him out of that position was nothing short of idiocy from Bailey

[Radar Detector 1,347]

Wrong. Newton was the recipient of some great work in the first 20 minutes when MFC dominated the inside 50s (I think it was 11 to 3 on the radio). We were belting North in the midfield who were lazy and unaccountable. Newton did his doing job up forward. But it was from the midfield where the game was won. But the game changed at about the 21 minute mark and North started to haul us in. We folded like a pack of cards. We stopped winning the centre clearances and inside 50s. Goldstein took over. Newton was selected to play forward and pinch hit the ruck. Martin was rested to ensure he could have rucked for the majority of the match. I am not sure we lost much forward because when our midfield got beaten we rarely did move forward. And given you felt he was diong so much what better than to put him where the action was...in the centre. I would have backed Nev Jetta to have more impact at a centre bounce than Dunn.

What a ridiculous reply. To say that Newton was just ok in the forward line because our midfield was so dominant is to let past failings cloud your judgement. Newton was the best performed of six forwards who were on the end of that service. And to say that because he was playing well up forward he should have more impact in the middle makes no sense at all. Next time Jurrah is on fire, let's move him into the ruck shall we?

[John Crow Batty 8,832]

To move a player from a winning dominant position to fill a relief role would have to rank as an incredibly stupid tactical blunder. Dunn relieved for Jamar against the Crows and did OK for a reliever. I didn't notice them gaining any traction from it. We lost the best advantage we had at that stage of the game and got absolutely zero value with Newton in the ruck.

[dee-luded 2,959]

I hate that supporters accept mediocrity and newton is that

he will play 10 years at MFC if we dont stop acceptin mediocrity. Agree he played ok in patches but is he the answer = no.

Id almost put my house on he will perform average over the next few weeks n get dropped....

worst thing is our leaders r breedin mediocrity

A really poor outlook. Juice is a servent of the club who was asked to do a job, which he did. It's well known what Juices abilities are. He played to them and contested in the ruck. Not much more could be asked as we were getting smashed in the Mids. We were undermanned.

The club has recruited young key posi players who are playing at casey and coming on well.

If Jamar was fit and playing, Juice up forward of a midfield of Jamar, Beamer, Trengove, Grimes, Davey, Sylvia would have been even more beneficial to his credits. He has his limitations, but still competes and has a go.

[Nasher 33,607]

anyway, Newton played very well at the start there, there was a huge tackle there that Watts turned into a goal that I was most impressed with. To move him out of that position was nothing short of idiocy from Bailey

It's what he was picked for.

[Curry & Beer 5,444]

It's what he was picked for.

so you're saying Bailey had no choice to stick to the original plan, even though juice, who has been a KPF hopeful saince day dot, was finally tearing a game up and was the main reason we were smashing them

i'm starting to side with the folks who think DB has no idea what he's doing

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

What a ridiculous reply. To say that Newton was just ok in the forward line because our midfield was so dominant is to let past failings cloud your judgement. Newton was the best performed of six forwards who were on the end of that service. And to say that because he was playing well up forward he should have more impact in the middle makes no sense at all. Next time Jurrah is on fire, let's move him into the ruck shall we?

I'll keep it simple.

Newton was picked as forward/pinch ruckman.

Newton finished off the good work done by the midfield up forward. Another poster said that Newton was the reason we were in front. He was part of the reason. However it was the midfield where the action was coming from. It was in the midfield where we lost it. The impetus in the game was changing in the last 5 minutes of the first quarter. North started to win the clearances, the contests and the inside 50s. We stopped moving the ball inside 50. So it would not have mattered if we had Newton down forward as our forwards were starved of opportunities after we continually lost the clearances.

To move a player from a winning dominant position to fill a relief role would have to rank as an incredibly stupid tactical blunder. Dunn relieved for Jamar against the Crows and did OK for a reliever. I didn't notice them gaining any traction from it. We lost the best advantage we had at that stage of the game and got absolutely zero value with Newton in the ruck.

His dominant position was being created by the play up the ground. He was marking and getting his hands on the ball which was good for Newts but also a product of the midfield. Dunn offered us nothing in the ruck against Adelaide and we could afford to have him there without hurting us in junk time. Adelaide have poor rucks and no abiility to hurt us in the centre. North lead by Goldstein were the opposite to Adelaide. Putting Dunn in the ruck would have been essentially handing the ball to Goldstein and saying do what you want do with it. The choice between Newton and Dunn reflects just how thin our options were to back Martin.

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

so you're saying Bailey had no choice to stick to the original plan, even though juice, who has been a KPF hopeful saince day dot, was finally tearing a game up and was the main reason we were smashing them

i'm starting to side with the folks who think DB has no idea what he's doing

The game is won and lost in the midfield. Its what was happening in the midfield why we were smashing them early. By the time Newton got to the ruck, the midfield battle was already beginning to be lost.

[beelzebub 23,254]

We could have always done what many an other team has over the years when faced with inadequate rucking stocks, is to shark the opposition. In this manner you simply make a contest of sorts to keep themhonest buty not expect to recive the tap via our ruck...just jump on theirs. Has been effective for various clubs over the distance.

In that manner Dunn ought to have gone into the Ruck..and Juice left to be effective where he was as opposed to becoming ineffective where he went..

I qualified comments prior to this game in another thread that Id be looking more at the moves and coaching than the scoreboard.

Didnt do much in either department really.

[Radar Detector 1,347]

I'll keep it simple.

Newton was picked as forward/pinch ruckman.

Newton finished off the good work done by the midfield up forward. Another poster said that Newton was the reason we were in front. He was part of the reason. However it was the midfield where the action was coming from. It was in the midfield where we lost it. The impetus in the game was changing in the last 5 minutes of the first quarter. North started to win the clearances, the contests and the inside 50s. We stopped moving the ball inside 50. So it would not have mattered if we had Newton down forward as our forwards were starved of opportunities after we continually lost the clearances.

No need to be so patronising RR, I understood exactly what your earlier post was saying. However I feel that your initial lack of acknowledgement of his part in our early lead is narrow-minded. And your allusion that because he was playing well as a forward means we should expect the same in the ruck against one of the better combinations going around is folly.

Now I will keep it simple:

Yes, he was picked as a forward/ruck.

No, he did not dominate in the ruck, but was considered the next best option given Dunn was at no staged thrown in to the centre bounces.

Yes, he was our best forward on the day, despite being shuffled around the park.

Yes, he deserves his spot even if as a forward only for next week.

Any other conclusion is coloured by past failings, which was my original point.

Edited May 16, 2011 by Deemolition

[demonique 314]

newton does what newton always does

flashes in and out but overall just a frustrating player

will be back at casey soon and then kick 7 and people will then call for his promotion again

same as last 6 or so years.....could be a life member soon

delist him and be gone with mediocrity

His service from the mids dried up, I thought he was the best I've seen him play!! In the first quarter that is

[beelzebub 23,254]

His efforts werent too shabby really...for anyone let aone Juice !! He gave good presences as well as presenting. He let themknow he was there and all in all stood up. Many others with seemingly more noted pedigrees went walkabout or missing.

Credit where credit due.. He did put in.

[The Chazz 4,077]

We could have always done what many an other team has over the years when faced with inadequate rucking stocks, is to shark the opposition. In this manner you simply make a contest of sorts to keep themhonest buty not expect to recive the tap via our ruck...just jump on theirs. Has been effective for various clubs over the distance.

In that manner Dunn ought to have gone into the Ruck..and Juice left to be effective where he was as opposed to becoming ineffective where he went..

I qualified comments prior to this game in another thread that Id be looking more at the moves and coaching than the scoreboard.

Didnt do much in either department really.

Jurrah started on the wing didn't he?

Dunn played half back flank?

Watts moved to play loose man in defense?

Newton rotated from full forward to ruck?

Maric played more in the midfield to start, then moved forward later and kicked 3 goals?

Not sure how many other changes you wanted to see.

I thought with the cattle we had out there, Bailey coached pretty bloody well. Our so called senior players are the ones that need to look in the mirror.

And those that are whinging about playing Green up the ground as opposed to forward (like last year). He played many parts of games on the wing last year, it's just that he was so effective when he went forward. This year, he has been very wasteful in front of goal (should be on at least 12 goals for the season = on track for 50 again). It's also a ploy that Bailey would be using to try and help Green get back in to form by playing him near where the ball is so he can get his hands on it. It's up to Brad now.

Juice is temporary, the sooner people realise that the better. I'm just glad he's a rookie now, so that he isn't taking a senior spot.

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

However I feel that your initial lack of acknowledgement of his part in our early lead is narrow-minded. And your allusion that because he was playing well as a forward means we should expect the same in the ruck against one of the better combinations going around is folly.

He was very good up forward but he has hardly the main reason we were in front. He did his role up forward. Games are won and lost in the midfield. I am glad you are no longer asserting that I said that "because he was playing well up forward he should have more impact in the middle" I did not say that at all. And it makes you original "what a ridiculous post" seems like you did not actually read the post. My point was that given he was getting the leather that he had a better chance to influence the game that a lame Dunn who managed to get himself a 5 week holiday for a crude and stupid tackle.

Yes, he deserves his spot even if as a forward only for next week.

Any other conclusion is coloured by past failings, which was my original point.

He will get selected next week that was never challenge by me but raised by you assuming someone else's point of view.

[Radar Detector 1,347]

Credit where credit due.. He did put in.

Exactly. I know it's Juice we're talking about, but it seems that no matter how well certain players perform, some on this site can't look further than past perceptions.

[beelzebub 23,254]

Jurrah started on the wing didn't he?

Dunn played half back flank?

Watts moved to play loose man in defense?

Newton rotated from full forward to ruck?

Maric played more in the midfield to start, then moved forward later and kicked 3 goals?

Not sure how many other changes you wanted to see.

I thought with the cattle we had out there, Bailey coached pretty bloody well. Our so called senior players are the ones that need to look in the mirror.

And those that are whinging about playing Green up the ground as opposed to forward (like last year). He played many parts of games on the wing last year, it's just that he was so effective when he went forward. This year, he has been very wasteful in front of goal (should be on at least 12 goals for the season = on track for 50 again). It's also a ploy that Bailey would be using to try and help Green get back in to form by playing him near where the ball is so he can get his hands on it. It's up to Brad now.

Juice is temporary, the sooner people realise that the better. I'm just glad he's a rookie now, so that he isn't taking a senior spot.

yep did a pealer of a job.... no doubt about it.

sorry...whom pantsed whom ??

Just moving people around is in itself not the barometer of successful coaching.. making moves that work. is ..Silly notion I know

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

We could have always done what many an other team has over the years when faced with inadequate rucking stocks, is to shark the opposition. In this manner you simply make a contest of sorts to keep themhonest buty not expect to recive the tap via our ruck...just jump on theirs. Has been effective for various clubs over the distance.

In that manner Dunn ought to have gone into the Ruck..and Juice left to be effective where he was as opposed to becoming ineffective where he went..

Good explain that to Adelaide if its that simple. Our mids did not or were not able to do that which raises the question is that how could Juice continue to be effective up forward when the inside 50s had effectively dried up? Hmmm

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

Exactly. I know it's Juice we're talking about, but it seems that no matter how well certain players perform, some on this site can't look further than past perceptions.

Or yours.

[beelzebub 23,254]

our mids were attemting to scout our own rucking ya nong !! We werent winning it.. .

[The Chazz 4,077]

Exactly. I know it's Juice we're talking about, but it seems that no matter how well certain players perform, some on this site can't look further than past perceptions.

And how did Juice go in the last 3 quarters? Big chance for him to make an impact and show that he has changed, but, like Bate last week, he hasn't.

yep did a pealer of a job.... no doubt about it.

sorry...whom pantsed whom ??

Just moving people around is in itself not the barometer of successful coaching.. making moves that work. is ..Silly notion I know

Ok B59, let's have your "match winning" changes. Dunn to pinch hit in the ruck? I find it amusing when I see this happen on the field. Where should Green play to regain form? Full Forward? Casey? What about Flash? Watts?

I think I want to know what is going on in your head, but it could be a bit disturbing, so I'll take the punt and read your next post so I can get a true gauge of your thought process.

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

our mids were attemting to scout our own rucking ya nong !! We werent winning it.. .

Our mids are there to win the clearance from the ruck and/or at the very least prevent their opponent from doing likewise. They are accountable for the direct opponent in the centre. Now do you think there would be a slight chance with Goldstein winning the rucks they may have positioned themselves to beat there direct opponent and either win the possession or at the very least nullify advantage? Take your time no hurry....

[Radar Detector 1,347]

My point was that given he was getting the leather that he had a better chance to influence the game that a lame Dunn who managed to get himself a 5 week holiday for a crude and stupid tackle.

I agree with this.

I think I mis-interpreted your initial "Wrong" reply to Roost It as diminishing Juice's efforts. On a re-read I can see how it was saying that he was not the main reason we were in front and supply from the mids was the key. I agree with this. Happy to retract the "ridiculous" comment on that basis. Apologies.

[Rogue 585]

His efforts werent too shabby really...for anyone let aone Juice !! [...]

Credit where credit due.. He did put in.

Absolutely.

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

I agree with this.

I think I mis-interpreted your initial "Wrong" reply to Roost It as diminishing Juice's efforts. On a re-read I can see how it was saying that he was not the main reason we were in front and supply from the mids was the key. I agree with this. Happy to retract the "ridiculous" comment on that basis. Apologies.

Cheers.