This could be the nail in Bailey's coffin

[hrob 2]

lol

[Footynut 302]

I don't often post here. It's interesting reading but often I switch off wondering how people can on here can be so sceptical and unsupprting of the players and club we all should love to the very bottom of our hearts.

Thread after thread on how bad Jack Watts is, thread after thread of how Scully is leaving, after every loss...we have no gameplan....players are rubbish...blah blah blah...you all know exactly what I'm talking about...it's so predictable...

Why can people who truly love our club not all see the path we are on and accept that it is not a one way ticket to happiness every week.

These constant threads of doom and gloom are continually posted. I look back at Geelong to the time it took Thompson to build the team there. He was almost gone and then look what happened.

I see people commenting on gameplan. When we get smashed off the park by a top team of course it seems as though there is no game plan. You need mature quality players to execute every quarter. Yet comments are made saying Bailey is no good as a tactical gameday coach and he has to prove it to certain supporters here?? What the? There is a gameplan it's just under pressure immature players cannot execute.

I see America de Cali predicting Bailey to be gone by round 11. America please go barrack for Colingwood. I don't think I have ever seen anything positive you have ever written about the club.

I see many people frustrated and saying we haven't improved. We have there is no doubt we have. Last year our first game against Hawks was a disaster. People need to understand develop does not occur as a linear line. It is progressive and we should all rightly expect ups and downs.

People like me who understand that it takes time for players to develop are told we are accepting mediocrity. Please....accepting mediocrity would be to sit there like we have for almost 50 odd years standing for nothing and blaming someone else and relying on very few to get us out of the mire. It's easy to blame the coach isnt it...

We are finally on our feet as a club. We have a very young list who we hope will develop over time into a champion team. We stand for something. We are again relevant.

We will make impact but maybe or maybe not this year.

People who continually post these OPs are simply impatient at best and time wasters at worst.

Let's get out there and support our team today win lose or draw.

Buy a membership and get to the game.

That would be the best contribution you could make to our club other than sitting here sniping under the pretense that you are playing devils advocate.

Edited April 9, 2011 by Footynut

[DirtyDees DDC 171]

Will we re-sign Bailey at the end of the year if the Dees finish 10th or lower?

I don't think so; not with 7 other coaches coming out of contract. And not with Mark Williams and Dean Laidley waiting to have another crack.

Bailey was found out last Sunday. We were tactically inept and he has failed to develop leadership on the ground. You can make the excuse that they had 14 players with more than 100 games experience verses 5 in the MFC, but we had 3 of our most experienced players in Jamar, Sylvia and Moloney at those centre bounces in the 3rd Q, and we did not have a clue.

Fans are screaming for Scully to re-sign with the Dees ASAP. Is anyone screaming to re-sign Bailey at the moment? Even if we finish 8th this year (still possible considering our relatively easy draw) i hope we take time to choose the coach for 2012. I don't want to see him re-signed (or fired) before the end of the season.

[45HG 1,539]

Will we re-sign Bailey at the end of the year if the Dees finish 10th or lower?

I don't think so; not with 7 other coaches coming out of contract.

i hope we take time to choose the coach for 2012. I don't want to see him re-signed (or fired) before the end of the season.

And yet you're happy to pretty much call for his head April.

[Footynut 302]

Accept what you are saying in that we need to do all due dilligance on having the best coach however that fact you are drawing a conclusion Bailey was found to be tactically inept last Sunday is your own perception. Did you see Richmond last night? Is Hardwick also tactically inept? Is the only coach that's any good out there Malthouse as he is on top of the ladder? Have a look at the disparity in hard bodies and experience have you? I recall times where Mick has also been under question re game plan etc...

Understand that it is purely the players fitness, quality, experience and strength that allows tactics to be successfully deployed.

[DirtyDees DDC 171]

And yet you're happy to pretty much call for his head April.

No......I'm saying that whatever happens this year, we should not make a commitment for 2012 before the end of the season.

I am VERY critical of his performance last Sunday. We were down in so many areas, (fitness, tactics, leadership and skills) and a lot of that is the responsibility of the coach. He's got 3 jobs - win games; develop players and manage the team, and he didn't do any of them on the weekend.

And it's not just our performance last week; thats' the 4th frigging time since 2008 that we have been thrashed by the Hawks. That would not be acceptable at Collingwood or Geelong. It should not be acceptable by us. It certainly wasn't acceptable to Jimmy.

[Footynut 302]

No......I'm saying that whatever happens this year, we should not make a commitment for 2012 before the end of the season.

I am VERY critical of his performance last Sunday. We were down in so many areas, (fitness, tactics, leadership and skills) and a lot of that is the responsibility of the coach. He's got 3 jobs - win games; develop players and manage the team, and he didn't do any of them on the weekend.

And it's not just our performance last week; thats' the 4th frigging time since 2008 that we have been thrashed by the Hawks. That would not be acceptable at Collingwood or Geelong. It should not be acceptable by us. It certainly wasn't acceptable to Jimmy.

Just a question...you say he has 3 jobs...

How do you know last week he didn't develop players?

How do you know he didn't manage the team?

Is that is again your perception based on your observations and your percieved benchmarks versus outcomes.

I don't know why you refer to other clubs at all...we are Melbourne and we are not the same...we are better than them..

Stick phat DDC...

[trudders 0]

seems fairly rough i would say.... bailey is no where near a coffin, we drew to sydney and we lost to hawthorn, as of last night im starting to believe they are going to genuine contenders, top 4 material. Bailey has put together this magnificent side and he has the right to experiment with them for a little longer. And to whoever it was i think it was america de cali that stated we had the best defense 18 months ago to which he described had "turned to rabble". Who developed that backline in the first place i might like to ask.....

[Footynut 302]

seems fairly rough i would say.... bailey is no where near a coffin, we drew to sydney and we lost to hawthorn, as of last night im starting to believe they are going to genuine contenders, top 4 material. Bailey has put together this magnificent side and he has the right to experiment with them for a little longer. And to whoever it was i think it was america de cali that stated we had the best defense 18 months ago to which he described had "turned to rabble". Who developed that backline in the first place i might like to ask.....

In addition our defense is not a rabble at all...it is a timing thing with Frawley returning, Tapscott settling etc etc

[Al`s DEMONS 0]

In addition our defense is not a rabble at all...it is a timing thing with Frawley returning, Tapscott settling etc etc

exactly, for the last time, i know he can play most positions but green must play out of the goal square on a full time basis to give us some kind of structure. we all know where watts is at and lj is hot and cold. not sure what bailey is doing this week with the forward line, i will look on with interest from the pub.

[DirtyDees DDC 171]

Just a question...you say he has 3 jobs...

How do you know last week he didn't develop players?

How do you know he didn't manage the team?

Is that is again your perception based on your observations and your percieved benchmarks versus outcomes.

I don't know why you refer to other clubs at all...we are Melbourne and we are not the same...we are better than them..

Stick phat DDC...

We are better than them? They win premierships.

Grimes, Jetta and Jones went backwards last week. Tell me..where is the development in Jones? So he's working on different roles ...good, but show us some results...show us that his ball handling improves or his kicks can hit targets.

We lost by approx 117 points against that team in round 1 2008, and we are not getting any closer. They made a 72 point turnaround in just over a half of football last Sunday. Imagine the result if they kicked straight.

There are reasons why we lost and I am certain the club had a good look at the footage this week, but please ...there are no excuses for that performance.

I have to confess i have a bee in my bonnet about the Hawks. I've hated them since '63 since they beat us in the preliminary final. I was also there on THAT DAY in 1987 when Jimmy ran across the mark.

I work with a bunch of awful supporters for that awful team that look at the fixture and go ' oh...we've got a bye in round 2, we're playing Melbourne'. Please Dees just be more competitive in round 18.

[Guest watts04]

Bailey will be fine the next few weeks and lets face it we werent going to win a flag this year. Anywhere between 10 - 7th is acceptable with our draw.

The bigger question is malthouse available at years end? If so we need to chase him regardless how well Bailey does...

To be honest Bailey should be judged after from the bye onwards once Scully, Mck etc are back and we stop playin gold c, brissie etc

[Footynut 302]

We are better than them? They win premierships.

Grimes, Jetta and Jones went backwards last week. Tell me..where is the development in Jones? So he's working on different roles ...good, but show us some results...show us that his ball handling improves or his kicks can hit targets.

We lost by approx 117 points against that team in round 1 2008, and we are not getting any closer. They made a 72 point turnaround in just over a half of football last Sunday. Imagine the result if they kicked straight.

There are reasons why we lost and I am certain the club had a good look at the footage this week, but please ...there are no excuses for that performance.

I have to confess i have a bee in my bonnet about the Hawks. I've hated them since '63 since they beat us in the preliminary final. I was also there on THAT DAY in 1987 when Jimmy ran across the mark.

I work with a bunch of awful supporters for that awful team that look at the fixture and go ' oh...we've got a bye in round 2, we're playing Melbourne'. Please Dees just be more competitive in round 18.

We smashed them off the park for the first time I have seen in a long time that second qtr. That IS development and that IS progress.

Fair enough about the Hawks supporter they are like that but our club is better. 'they win premierships' is referring to the past. If they are as good as the past and we are as poor as we have been then we might as well give it away. We must believe in ourselves and set our own benchmarks going into the future.

[Footynut 302]

In addition one game doesn't male a player. Your references to Jones etc are short sighted.

Think about Jamar and where he was a few years back. Even now Jones is still 23. Look at others around majority of them are un the same boat.

[Dees 64 8]

My Summary , I work with KPI's daily

Clearances Bad to non existant

Ball out of the center Bad

Kick out from behinds Bad

Forward Pressure Does not exist

Skills Very poor

Young Player development ?

Senior Players showing leadership Non-existant

Coach and his FD Team Does not seem to be getting the best out of the players

Attempt to attain 40,000 members Great, the FD is not helping

Game Day dropouts Will occur when we dont see any improvement

The Filth Have developed a great, FD, Coach, Game plan, and will go back to back, (now that sucks)

[Guest bonjohn]

I laughed. So, so true.

No, this game will not be the nail in Bailey's or anyone else's coffin. In isolation it will mean the same thing as every other game does in isolation - not much. Thankfully our club administration look further ahead than week and further behind than one week.

Also, as alluded to be e25 in the other thread, I don't see why it's a foregone conclusion that we should smash them. They might be one of the worst sides in the league, but we haven't improved so much that we can expect to smash the bottom dwellers yet, we've only just exited that level ourselves.

i laughed are u kidding,a loss here will not be taken in isolation as it will be another pile of dirt thrown on the coffin that had its last nail driven long ago.we are playing Essendon(style) 2010 footy,i love it wish everybody played that way but they ,but coaching has pillaged other sports and become so professional you cannot play attractive"aussie rules"if we win it will be as essendon last year,let it ride.

dropping petterd this week astounds me,the use of him astounds me.i saw him gain mid 20 possessions in his first two senior games.a smart footballer who is coached by one who was not.how did we hang onto him

[DirtyDees DDC 171]

We smashed them off the park for the first time I have seen in a long time that second qtr. That IS development and that IS progress.

There's the problem. i don't think we did smash them in the second. We were behind in all those stats at half time ...like clearances and stoppages. We took our chances well, but we also dodged a bullet because of their poor kicking.

Interesting to compare our performance with Richmonds' last night. After quarter time they were even with inside 50's, clearances were even, and contested footy was even. We got smashed in all areas. The Tigers got beaten by a bigger margin than us, but at least they appear to have learnt from their bad start.

I'm going to the game today and I'll barrack for the dees to do well. I WILL have to sit on my own after my inexcusable performance in the stands last week. I promise to sit quietly and not drink.

[45HG 1,539]

I WILL have to sit on my own after my inexcusable performance in the stands last week. I promise to sit quietly and not drink.

Snap.

I do agree in the most, that last week's performance was not acceptable. But at the same time, that is to be expected on occasion from young teams.

It's a dangerous thing to compare performances across years against the same team and draw too many conclusions. Comparing last week's performance, in isolation, to Round 1 2008 teaches us nothing. 8 weeks later against that same team who smashed us by over 100, we headed them in the last quarter and (if not for a rubbish umpiring decision against Davey) may have rolled them - eventually falling by 19 points. It can't be claimed we improved that much in '08 and you would absolutely not claim that we've gone backwards from that day.

Last week's performance wasn't up to scratch, but it has to do with many more factors other than Bailey alone. As has been said before, it's lucky that the club look ahead more than some supporters.

[rpfc 27,570]

My Summary , I work with KPI's daily

Clearances Bad to non existant

Ball out of the center Bad

Kick out from behinds Bad

Forward Pressure Does not exist

Skills Very poor

Young Player development ?

Senior Players showing leadership Non-existant

Coach and his FD Team Does not seem to be getting the best out of the players

Attempt to attain 40,000 members Great, the FD is not helping

Game Day dropouts Will occur when we dont see any improvement

The Filth Have developed a great, FD, Coach, Game plan, and will go back to back, (now that sucks)

I think it's funny how everything is related to the FD - with the 'FD' being a euphemism for Bailey.

And how someone who works with KPIs can look at 'members' and say that the FD isn't helping even though it's roaring along...

But my favourite is the 'game day dropouts' - someone who loves KPIs measuring something that might occur in the future...

Measuring thin air...

[rpfc 27,570]

I honestly think that there is "Hawks beating us easily fatigue" going on.

We always play them early in the year and we always get belted. This one was galling because we were infront for quite a bit of the game but the facts are these; there are a better team, they have a better midfield, they have stronger players, they have stars, or A graders, or whatver-you-call-ems, in the their team.

To assume that they are incapable of responding to a bake from Clarkson and beating, or belting, our bunch of talented toddlers and NQR seniors is insulting to the people that run the Hawks and the list that they have assembled.

[Vagg 2,422]

I don't often post here. It's interesting reading but often I switch off wondering how people can on here can be so sceptical and unsupprting of the players and club we all should love to the very bottom of our hearts.

Thread after thread on how bad Jack Watts is, thread after thread of how Scully is leaving, after every loss...we have no gameplan....players are rubbish...blah blah blah...you all know exactly what I'm talking about...it's so predictable...

Why can people who truly love our club not all see the path we are on and accept that it is not a one way ticket to happiness every week.

These constant threads of doom and gloom are continually posted. I look back at Geelong to the time it took Thompson to build the team there. He was almost gone and then look what happened.

I see people commenting on gameplan. When we get smashed off the park by a top team of course it seems as though there is no game plan. You need mature quality players to execute every quarter. Yet comments are made saying Bailey is no good as a tactical gameday coach and he has to prove it to certain supporters here?? What the? There is a gameplan it's just under pressure immature players cannot execute.

I see America de Cali predicting Bailey to be gone by round 11. America please go barrack for Colingwood. I don't think I have ever seen anything positive you have ever written about the club.

I see many people frustrated and saying we haven't improved. We have there is no doubt we have. Last year our first game against Hawks was a disaster. People need to understand develop does not occur as a linear line. It is progressive and we should all rightly expect ups and downs.

People like me who understand that it takes time for players to develop are told we are accepting mediocrity. Please....accepting mediocrity would be to sit there like we have for almost 50 odd years standing for nothing and blaming someone else and relying on very few to get us out of the mire. It's easy to blame the coach isnt it...

We are finally on our feet as a club. We have a very young list who we hope will develop over time into a champion team. We stand for something. We are again relevant.

We will make impact but maybe or maybe not this year.

People who continually post these OPs are simply impatient at best and time wasters at worst.

Let's get out there and support our team today win lose or draw.

Buy a membership and get to the game.

That would be the best contribution you could make to our club other than sitting here sniping under the pretense that you are playing devils advocate.

Well said! Clearly, most of the negative posters here have not bothered to take the time to view Cameron Schwab's most recent Whiteboard Wednesday! If you haven't seen it, do yourselves a favour and take a look. It gives a good, well-reasoned perspective to where we are at, and where we are headed. The Club is in good hands, and knows where it is going. I, for one, am on board for the long haul. There will be many more disappointments, like last week's game, along the way. But, I firmly believe we will finally have another Premiership within the next few years.

[deeflog 679]

Absolutely.

Let's say we lose the game versus the Lions; let's even assume we have a big loss.

We then go on to make finals and snag a finals victory, but DB is still going to lose his job because of a round three result?

That DB will see out the season, but that his cards will be stamped if we lose this game, is such a ridiculous assertion.

if we loose today, there will be no finals for the MFC this year!! No ifs, buts or maybe's

[Bring-Back-Powell 13,314]

I reckon he's in trouble if we lose today.

[Sir Why You Little 34,647]

Well said! Clearly, most of the negative posters here have not bothered to take the time to view Cameron Schwab's most recent Whiteboard Wednesday! If you haven't seen it, do yourselves a favour and take a look. It gives a good, well-reasoned perspective to where we are at, and where we are headed. The Club is in good hands, and knows where it is going. I, for one, am on board for the long haul. There will be many more disappointments, like last week's game, along the way. But, I firmly believe we will finally have another Premiership within the next few years.

I urge everyone to watch these two clips, in view of what happened last sunday.

it does not offer excuses but does give a good indication of where the club is at right now.

Part one...

Part two

Stick Fat and Go Demons.

There you go Barry i agree with all your points....To all it is worth watching a second time...

[DirtyDees DDC 171]

I honestly think that there is "Hawks beating us easily fatigue" going on.

We always play them early in the year and we always get belted. This one was galling because we were infront for quite a bit of the game but the facts are these; there are a better team, they have a better midfield, they have stronger players, they have stars, or A graders, or whatver-you-call-ems, in the their team.

To assume that they are incapable of responding to a bake from Clarkson and beating, or belting, our bunch of talented toddlers and NQR seniors is insulting to the people that run the Hawks and the list that they have assembled.

They are certainly a good team; Burgoyne is a big pick-up, and Josh Gibson fills a role in their backline. We only have 3 guys on our list who have played at other clubs and maybe this will change when we fine-tune our team in 2013 and beyond.

But it takes two teams to perform a 72 point turnaround in a half a football. Our major problems are the centre clearances and the kickouts and that shows up in all the stats. If Bailey can produce a better set of figures in the remaining matches, then he may prove to be the best guy to lead us into the top 4. But i'm worried that we do the same things, we make the same mistakes and we get the same unacceptable results. Jimmy has rarely gone public with criticism of our performance and he did the right thing by speaking up during the week.