Our Kick Outs

[stevethemanjordan 6,952]

Glad we got away with a win today. Didn't look great early on and I think a big part of why we struggled was to do with our kick out setup or lack of one!

It honestly looked like school boy footy. Garland bombing long to which ever side Jamar was on, hoping he would either mark it, or make a contest bringing the

ball to ground in hope that some of our mids would feed off it.

Firstly, why does Garland seem to be the designated kicker? Why doesn't Davey kick out? He has a far more creative and effective kick and when he took them today

nearly everyone hit somebody.

Secondly, what the hell is every other player doing? We have no setup whatsoever. Most players just seem to stand around waiting for the long kick to either side.

There is no movement or leading from anyone !

It was honestly pathetic today, and although we won, had it been Hawthorn or any other quality team with decent disposal, we would have been smashed every

time Garland went for the long bomb.

To me it looks like there is no structure, setup, idea or whatever you want to call it and it's really worrying.

I really hope from now on, Davey takes every kick out except for when there is a fast break and we can get it out quickly after a behind.

Anyway. Just one thing that I thought needs a lot of improvement from today.

Good to win again. Next week will be a huge test.

Go Dees.

Edited August 8, 2010 by stevethemanjordan

[hrob 2]

yer good post...would much rather garland or the person kicking out to chip a little 20-30 metre kick to someone before bombing it out if another short kick isnt on

[Jaded No More 58,832]

Did you see Collingwood last night? Half their kick-ins were long bombs to a contest. Sometimes it worked, sometimes it didn't.

It's very hard these days with zones, to get the ball moving quickly out of the backline and pick long targets.

We have become so much better in this area. Two years ago, 50% of our kick-ins results in direct turnovers, but these days our drive off half back is probably our biggest strength.

And the reason why Garland takes the kick-ins is because he is a good kick, a very smart player, and because if Davey takes the kick-ins he can't win the ball in the middle, and I'd rather him deliver the ball inside 50, than out of the back pocket.

Obviously we need to keep improving, and some of our kicking today had shades of 2007, but I'm more concerned about our inability to get clean ball in clearances without Moloney, than our kick-ins.

[jumbo returns 6,537]

Glad we got away with a win today. Didn't look great early on and I think a big part of why we struggled was to do with our kick out setup or lack of one!

It honestly looked like school boy footy. Garland bombing long to which ever side Jamar was on, hoping he would either mark it, or make a contest bringing the

ball to ground in hope that some of our mids would feed off it.

Firstly, why does Garland seem to be the designated kicker? Why doesn't Davey kick out? He has a far more creative and effective kick and when he took them today

nearly everyone hit somebody.

Secondly, what the hell is every other player doing? We have no setup whatsoever. Most players just seem to stand around waiting for the long kick to either side.

There is no movement or leading from anyone !

It was honestly pathetic today, and although we won, had it been Hawthorn or any other quality team with decent disposal, we would have been smashed every

time Garland went for the long bomb.

To me it looks like there is no structure, setup, idea or whatever you want to call it and it's really worrying.

I really hope from now on, Davey takes every kick out except for when there is a fast break and we can get it out quickly after a behind.

Anyway. Just one thing that I thought needs a lot of improvement from today.

Good to win again. Next week will be a huge test.

Go Dees.

I didn't think it was tooo bad - personally, I'd rather have Davey take the 3rd kick from the kick in, or 2nd so that he can lob or laser pass to a player charging forward.

Under instruction, Garland is a booming kick (better than Rivers) and I suppose there's been some instruction to kick it long down the line and hope the crumbers are there.

I hate the 'deadpocket' kick that goees nowhere, especially when you can't effect a switch in play.

Still, the whole team is a work in progress....

[jumbo returns 6,537]

Did you see Collingwood last night? Half their kick-ins were long bombs to a contest. Sometimes it worked, sometimes it didn't.

It's very hard these days with zones, to get the ball moving quickly out of the backline and pick long targets.

We have become so much better in this area. Two years ago, 50% of our kick-ins results in direct turnovers, but these days our drive off half back is probably our biggest strength.

And the reason why Garland takes the kick-ins is because he is a good kick, a very smart player, and because if Davey takes the kick-ins he can't win the ball in the middle, and I'd rather him deliver the ball inside 50, than out of the back pocket.

Obviously we need to keep improving, and some of our kicking today had shades of 2007, but I'm more concerned about our inability to get clean ball in clearances without Moloney, than our kick-ins.

Jaded beat me to it - excellent post.

[Chook 14,605]

Honestly, it's not that hard. As soon as a behind is kicked, the nearest player runs his arse off to get the ball, promptly turns around and kicks it to one of the seven Melbourne jumpers leading as fast as they can. Speed of ball movement is a defender's worst nightmare, and the longer the kicker-in spends with the ball in his hands, the more time the opposition has to set up its' structures. If I was coach, that's how I'd run it.

Edited August 8, 2010 by Chook

[Demon Tragic 0]

Garland had a bad day today, but overall, I think Melbourne would be right up there for goals from kick-ins. I won't always pay off, but the risks are worth taking.

[stevethemanjordan 6,952]

Did you see Collingwood last night? Half their kick-ins were long bombs to a contest. Sometimes it worked, sometimes it didn't.

Missed the game last night but Collingwood are on top of the ladder and beat Geelong. They must be a bit more effective in most areas including kick outs, even if they bombed it last night. Maybe the kicks were to better advantage or something. Bit different.

It's very hard these days with zones, to get the ball moving quickly out of the backline and pick long targets.

We have become so much better in this area. Two years ago, 50% of our kick-ins results in direct turnovers, but these days our drive off half back is probably our biggest strength.

And the reason why Garland takes the kick-ins is because he is a good kick, a very smart player, and because if Davey takes the kick-ins he can't win the ball in the middle, and I'd rather him deliver the ball inside 50, than out of the back pocket.

Fair enough. I tend to have a different opinion with both zones/setups and Garland kicking. Garland is an ok kick. Not bad and not great. AFL standard he is ok. Unless we had a clear break away, there would be no issue with Davey taking kick outs and then having time to gain possession in the middle and link up or kick inside 50.

Obviously we need to keep improving, and some of our kicking today had shades of 2007, but I'm more concerned about our inability to get clean ball in clearances without Moloney, than our kick-ins.

Seems like we have coped pretty well without him since he has been out Jaded !! We have won the last three !

Edited August 8, 2010 by stevethemanjordan

[big tuna 0]

Garland does a better job than any other backman but I agree that Davey should take every kick-out he can possibly get to. Garlands biggest problem is his lask of confidence in hitting a shorter target inside 50. Once today he played on and hit it beautifully to Jones on 50 but I think it was a bit of helicopter that just happened to drop nicely between 3 Tigers.

[stevethemanjordan 6,952]

Garland does a better job than any other backman but I agree that Davey should take every kick-out he can possibly get to. Garlands biggest problem is his lask of confidence in hitting a shorter target inside 50. Once today he played on and hit it beautifully to Jones on 50 but I think it was a bit of helicopter that just happened to drop nicely between 3 Tigers.

Remember it vividly.

Was a complete fluke. haha.

[Jaded No More 58,832]

Seems like we have coped pretty well without him since he has been out Jaded !! We have won the last three !

And guess who has been taking the kick-outs over the last three games... Garland.

[stevethemanjordan 6,952]

And guess who has been taking the kick-outs over the last three games... Garland.

Not every time. And when Davey takes them, they are far more effective on average.

Winning and losing games may not entirely come down to kick outs Jaded but the point of my post was that it is something

we need to work on it seems.

[DeezMan 4]

We take too long! How about the Richmond cheer squad though?!?! Making all that noise cos we take so long!! Rabble.

Um... kick-outs are a bit of an Achilles Heel for us. James Strauss anyone??

[e25 5]

This stupid thread AGAIN??!?

[stevethemanjordan 6,952]

This stupid thread AGAIN??!?

Very insightful opinion you have there E25.

Anything more to add?

Your knowledge of football astounds me.

[DeezMan 4]

This stupid thread AGAIN??!?

This thread reappears for a VERY good reason, E25...

[tez 6]

Very insightful opinion you have there E25.

Anything more to add?

Your knowledge of football astounds me.

well this thread has come up so many times and it hasnt been very insightfull from you

boaring move on

[stevethemanjordan 6,952]

well this thread has come up so many times and it hasnt been very insightfull from you

boaring move on

No 'a' in boring my friend but thank you for your input Tez

P.S.

You wouldn't happen to be E25 but under another account name would you...?

[tez 6]

No 'a' in boring my friend but thank you for your input Tez

P.S.

You wouldn't happen to be E25 but under another account name would you...?

no sorry, as for this kick in dilema i feel we are middle road type for now we were alot better in bris and i feel its a week to week thing as teams structure differently and today richmond tried things and they do want to ave their say in shaping the finals and who actualy gets there, lets hope they hurt carlton next week

[e25 5]

No 'a' in boring my friend but thank you for your input Tez

P.S.

You wouldn't happen to be E25 but under another account name would you...?

haha it fascinates me why you would even suggest a thing.

To think that for someone to agree with me, it must be me with a second account.

Pathetic Steve, but i've come to expect as much from you.

(and nothing against tez, but I'm too much of a spelling nazi to get "boring" wrong)

[Dappa Dan 2,188]

Good post STMJ. It's not new, but I'll field it anyway.

Glad we got away with a win today. Didn't look great early on and I think a big part of why we struggled was to do with our kick out setup or lack of one!

I reckon a big part o why we struggled was the fact they played man-on-man. Say what you like about the Tigers, but geez they play with heart. It was their delivery which was appalling at time that cost them any sort of sizeable lead. I have a sneaking suspicion Brisbane, heat (was hot according to someone who was there) and the hard ground might have made for a bit of first-half lethargy. But that aside, I thought once we figured our zone out and players like JoelMac got on top, all we needed to do was lean on them. I don't know about you, but as bad as we were playing I felt we always had a leash on them. Still can't believe we were up at quarter-time.

It honestly looked like school boy footy. Garland bombing long to which ever side Jamar was on, hoping he would either mark it, or make a contest bringing the

ball to ground in hope that some of our mids would feed off it.

Bad as that is, you do need to have that "out." The fact Jamar wasn't getting any air, and Moloney wasn't there to read him probably meant that the younger players had to step into that hole. Notice that Scully did it beautifully after half time. All in all it's not ideal, but when they're maniacally manning-up, having that back door release isn't a bad thing. I'd prefer to see that than dinky 15 metre passes to the boundary, slow play on, then cramped up on the wing and out of bounds.

Firstly, why does Garland seem to be the designated kicker? Why doesn't Davey kick out? He has a far more creative and effective kick and when he took them today

nearly everyone hit somebody.

That's an easy one. Davey is more useful linking through the guts. I prefer him finding a target as the ground narrows. That, and Garland hasn't been too bad kicking out. Today aside. Davey did that link-up role very well today too, which might explain why he didn't drift back.

Secondly, what the hell is every other player doing? We have no setup whatsoever. Most players just seem to stand around waiting for the long kick to either side.

There is no movement or leading from anyone !

Yeah. That was one of the things that led me to the tired conclusion above.

To me it looks like there is no structure, setup, idea or whatever you want to call it and it's really worrying.

Would you say we figured it out after half time though? I reckon a few changes were made that worked well. I liked seeing Bennell in defence on White (45?)

I really hope from now on, Davey takes every kick out except for when there is a fast break and we can get it out quickly after a behind.

What I hope is that regardless of who it is and where it goes, they just move it as QUICKLY as they can. The only way we make finals is by taking every game on. If you stop and wait, the Hodges/Mitchells of this world will moider you.

All in all, I don't think it's as bad as you say. I just reckon players weren't running to receive. Why not? Because the Tiges had flooded their HF line in anticipation of a kick in. They had extra numbers, AND were manning up. The trouble with that is that it's risky. If we penetrate that wall we have acres to work into. I've missed a lot of footy this year, but the demons goal of the year for me was that quick succession of handballs out of defence, Bruce finds Sylvia on a flank, he runs into fifty and passes off to Wonna who goals. Coast to Coast stuff that had me out of my chair. I thought it was a valiant effort by Hardwick and the Tiges to play that kind of kamikaze all-out attack like that, and it was unlikely to work given they're all little kids an our defence was on top ALL day. But as far as 2010 goes, against that side, I thought it was sound day, tactically. Had it have been the Hawks, yeah, they might have made adjustments. But we'll worry about that in a week I reckon.

[Jumping Jack Clennett 1,628]

We take too long! How about the Richmond cheer squad though?!?! Making all that noise cos we take so long!! Rabble.

Um... kick-outs are a bit of an Achilles Heel for us. James Strauss anyone??

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I agree that we take too long. Watch Coll. and Geelong. The kicker-in runs to collect the ball and quickly gets it back into play before the opposition have time to fully set their zones.

But James Strauss???? Did you watch him at Casey? Gave two goals away with misplaced short kick-ins. I really hope this guy makes the grade, but at present he doesn't get the ball enough, and his kicking is far from infallible.

[Jumping Jack Clennett 1,628]

This stupid thread AGAIN??!?

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Surely you realise that if you're not interested in a topic, you don't have to read it. Why belittle a poster for raising a subject which many posters find interesting and important?

It's conceivable that posters could make suggestions which the football dept. could consider worthwhile. I'm sure they occasionally refer to the unofficial websites.( Mark Riley sent me a personal email when he was at Melbourne, in response to one of my posts on point kick-ins).

[e25 5]

I didn't belittle anyone, I just think this topic has been done to death amd no new light is ever shed on the topic.

I'm allowed to express my surprise.

[The Chazz 4,077]

I actually think our kick-ins have improved over the past month, and it is no coincidence that we are winnng more games, and kicking higher scores. While I still think we can improve in the speed that we get it back in to play sometimes, I think that will come as players gain more confidence playing with each other and knowing how each player thinks/plays.

I watched the game live on Channel 7 yesterday (QLD), and Bruce and Dennis continually praised Melbourne''s ability to go from one end to the other and score from it. I'm pretty sure they actually said Melbourne were one of the best in the league at it.

It would be great to have Davey take the kick-ins, but sadly we only have one of him. I think Bailey mentioned last year that he would love 3 of him - one for each section of the ground. You make Flash the kick-in man, then he has to sprint to get up to the half forward flank to deliver to our forwards. he doesn't have the motor, so will need rotations, which will throw us off a bit should the opposition score a point while he is off.

leave it with Garland as Number 1, then if there is the possibility of clearing it quicker, whoever is the bloody closest!