Rising Star Award

[Hannabal 4]

1. Hanneberry (has been the most consistent of all the young players)

On the contrary, it's actually Hannebery's slight inconsistency that may preclude him. Three times Hannebery has had 11 disposals, or less. Scully's worst is 14 (twice) and Trengove's lowest is 13 with the next worst 16.

Hannebery has recorded 20, or more disposals 7 times in 14 games, whilst Scully has 9 x 20, or more in 15 and Trengove 9 in 14. And they both average more disposals per game than Hannebery.

[JACKATTACK 17]

Phil Davis from the crows got this weeks nomination.... hang in there Watts your time will come

Jordie Robbed again.

player D EFF% K H G B CM UM T CL C SC SCA

McKenzie, J 21 62 5 16 0 0 0 3 5 3 1 84 72

Davis, P 14 64 7 7 0 0 1 4 2 0 2 52 59

7 more disposals, 3 more clearances

ROBBED!

[Go the Biff 3,177]

Jordie Robbed again.

player D EFF% K H G B CM UM T CL C SC SCA

McKenzie, J 21 62 5 16 0 0 0 3 5 3 1 84 72

Davis, P 14 64 7 7 0 0 1 4 2 0 2 52 59

7 more disposals, 3 more clearances

ROBBED!

Again the folly of using stats as a sole basis of comparison.

Jordie plays in the midfield. Davis is a young key defender - and is doing a pretty good job

[JACKATTACK 17]

Again the folly of using stats as a sole basis of comparison.

Jordie plays in the midfield. Davis is a young key defender - and is doing a pretty good job

I watched both games, Jordie had more impact, simple as that. I agree the stats can be misleading, but in this case jordie got more hard balls and more of the ball. He also had more tackles. He is 11th in the league for average tackles per game (6.1). The fact is that a lot of his touches go un-noticed because they are quick gives (and very clean ones) out of a pack. Add to this the shut-down job he did on Mundy in the second half (mundy 4 disposals in the second half), and you can see where I am coming from.

Next week Jordie.

[Red Sox 2]

I watched both games, Jordie had more impact, simple as that. I agree the stats can be misleading, but in this case jordie got more hard balls and more of the ball. He also had more tackles. He is 11th in the league for average tackles per game (6.1). The fact is that a lot of his touches go un-noticed because they are quick gives (and very clean ones) out of a pack. Add to this the shut-down job he did on Mundy in the second half (mundy 4 disposals in the second half), and you can see where I am coming from.

Next week Jordie.

Good work Jack.....yes, he did keep Mundy to sweet FA after half time and should've got the nod ahead of Davis who I do rate but was not better than Jordie - this week anyway.

[Hannabal 4]

Again the folly of using stats as a sole basis of comparison.

Jordie plays in the midfield. Davis is a young key defender - and is doing a pretty good job

Absolutely. One has to compare like with like.

[Ingo 0]

Regardless of who wins it. Out of the 26 players that sportsbet is offering odds on, 5 are Melbourne players, with Trengove and Scully as third and fourth favourites.

[Eth 4]

Regardless of who wins it. Out of the 26 players that sportsbet is offering odds on, 5 are Melbourne players, with Trengove and Scully as third and fourth favourites.

First and second?

[Dr. Mubutu 694]

Would love for Jordie to get a nom, to recognise his massive impact on our midfield this year, however, I doubt that it will happen.

I really think that the AFL are looking for young players who fill up the highlights reels with goals, I50's etc. Let's face it, getting the ball out from under a pack and laying tackles isn't terribly glamorous (despite its importance). Jordie just does his job consistently well every week. I'm sure that the coaches will be highlighting his efforts on the weekend, regardless of the lack of nomination.

[JACKATTACK 17]

Absolutely. One has to compare like with like.

So the stats are irrelevant? They are far more relevant to the question of Davis deserving a nod over jordie than any amount of subjective fluff I can muster. It's a tired argument on here I know, but I would rather see shorter posts providing facts about an issue than long winded ones (like this) about some guys opinion about something. Stats are not absolute, but at least the regular demonland reader can make their own interpretation on them after someone posts them. I say let's see more posts with facts and stats.

[Dappa Dan 2,188]

Absolutely. One has to compare like with like.

But they have to, don't they? Both on a week by week basis with the nominations, and at the end of the year...

It's not an ideal situation, and you wouldn't go comparing defenders to mids as a rule. But when it come to the Rising star?....

[Little Goffy 12,722]

Can anyone tell me why Jordie McKenzie can't even get a nomination?

Played some great individual games and has racked up a solid run all season.

Ah well, I'm just glad they don't decide premierships by committee.

[Hannabal 4]

But they have to, don't they? Both on a week by week basis with the nominations, and at the end of the year...

What ?

[Doggo 32]

Three times Hannebery has had 11 disposals, or less. Scully's worst is 14 (twice) and Trengove's lowest is 13 with the next worst 16.

Hannebery has recorded 20 or more disposals, 7 times in 14 games, whilst Scully has 9 x 20 or more in 15 and Trengove 9 in 14. And they both average more disposals per game than Hannebery.

If we're going purely on numbers, Rockliff has got them all...

280 disposals and 3 goals from 13 games (20+ on 9 occasions), 21.5 dispoal average (more than all of scu/tren/hann). His worst games have been 9, 14, 17 and 18 disposals. All of his other games have been over 20.

Yeah he plays a fair bit of footy off halk back, but numbers like that (and the quality with which he uses the ball) should have him right up there IMO. Grimes-esque...

[Dappa Dan 2,188]

Absolutely. One has to compare like with like.

What ?

I might have missed something.

You were saying you shouldn't compare a KP defender to a midfielder because they play different roles and rack up different stats. Am I right?

My point was that I think it's fair to compare the players on a thread who's topic centres around the Rising Star... Because comparing players of ALL different roles is what the judges have to do. On any given week they might compare a Stratton to a Trengove... and choose accordingly. And at the end of the year EVERYONE is compared. Ruckmen (Nicnat), midfielders (Scully, Hannebery etc) and KP defenders (Reid) alike.

[Hannabal 4]

You were saying you shouldn't compare a KP defender to a midfielder because they play different roles and rack up different stats. Am I right?

My point was that I think it's fair to compare the players on a thread who's topic centres around the Rising Star... Because comparing players of ALL different roles is what the judges have to do. On any given week they might compare a Stratton to a Trengove... and choose accordingly. And at the end of the year EVERYONE is compared. Ruckmen (Nicnat), midfielders (Scully, Hannebery etc) and KP defenders (Reid) alike.

By all means compare the merits of the RS between defenders and mids, but don't use various individual statistical criterion to make a valued judgment. There's no point comparing the stats of a mid and a tall defender. The comparison as to who has been more valuable to their side in determining the RS is obviously fine.

Not sure why I needed to even point this out.

[JACKATTACK 17]

By all means compare the merits of the RS between defenders and mids, but don't use various individual statistical criterion to make a valued judgment. There's no point comparing the stats of a mid and a tall defender. The comparison as to who has been more valuable to their side in determining the RS is obviously fine.

Not sure why I needed to even point this out.

Except that the stats are relevant, and there is plenty of point to make the comparison. The available stats may only be one measure, and only part of the story, but they are certainly relevant in the discussion.

Not sure why I needed to even point this out.

[e25 5]

The sky is blue.

Not sure why I needed to even point this out.

[Craig Drinker 179]

What happened to Nic Natanui? The way Bruce McAvaney was banging on about him at the start of the year he sounded like a shoe in for the Brownlow!

[Hannabal 4]

Except that the stats are relevant, and there is plenty of point to make the comparison.

Young mids are always going to get a lot more of the ball than young tall defenders, which is why your use of stats to argue a point was moronic.

[jnrmac 19,176]

The winner will come from the first 8 nominations. That's what history tells us.

1. Yarran

2. Hannebury

3. Bastinac

4. NicNat

5. Trengove

6. Banfield

7. Scully

8. Melksham

Scully, Trengove Hannebury

daylight

NikNat

[JACKATTACK 17]

Young mids are always going to get a lot more of the ball than young tall defenders, which is why your use of stats to argue a point was moronic.

Not always, defenders of all sorts can pick up cheap possessions and have only a small impact on a game (not that this was the case with Davis), likewise midfield taggers can go with very few possessions and have a massive impact. You could argue that Jordie's work off the ball was as important as his work on the ball as much as you could with Davis. We could make subjective judgements about how the ball is easier/harder to get as an inside mid, or as a defender. That is all well and good, but the stats are still worth mentioning. To make a comparison between two players you need to make a judgement call on how each individual performed, and one measure of those individual performances is with their ability to find the ball, their ability to stop other players finding the ball, their ability to get the ball out of the centre. All stats, are they the whole story? No. But they are all relevant.

Maybe I need to add in a disclaimer with any quoted stats saying as much so we people know where I stand and we can avoid calling each other morons in the future.

[Dappa Dan 2,188]

The sky is blue.

Not sure why I needed to even point this out.

Witty. How 'bout you try contributing instead of adding only irritation to a discussion not involving you, smartarse.

Young mids are always going to get a lot more of the ball than young tall defenders, which is why your use of stats to argue a point was moronic.

Only if you're making a direct comparison, valuing stats equally. You didn't say this up until a few posts ago. You just said comparing like to like is pointless. Besides, JA's point is valid. Stats can be misleading, but they do tell SOME of the story, as well as being very valuable to the average supporter with only one pair of eyes (not 18). I won't say I agree with JA's general point, but he's well within reason making it.

Jeez it's only the rising star. No need to get bent out of shape and start insulting people.

[e25 5]

Witty. How 'bout you try contributing instead of adding only irritation to a discussion not involving you, smartarse.

Jeez it's only the rising star. No need to get bent out of shape and start insulting people.

So... take it more seriously, but don't take it too seriously?

How about you keep your pathetic advise to yourself Dappa.

It's been a long time since I've read anything of worth in one of your posts.

[H_T 2,941]

Cool it guys.

Play the ball and not the man. H and Jackattack are doing just that.