Critical NAB Match

[jayceebee31 671]

I think we're all hoping we get a few wins out of the first 6 rounds. However, we shouldn't be too perturbed if we're 1-5 after 6 rounds. I can't speak for all, but I'm sure there are many that believe the list has advanced since last seasons list. A younger list stands today. One NAB cup and one NAB Challenge match with key players missing; blooding youngsters (1st & 2nd year players), etc shouldn't necessarily be confirmed evidence for "going backwards" from my point of view.

Great to see another positive post- I think we have gone backwards. Getting belted by Fremantle and then by 40 points by Essendon and running out of puff does not give me confidence for the start of the year. However beating Geelong convincingly like Richmond did gives confidence to all and momentum for the year ahead. We need to get a win shortly. Also we need to get our players co ordinated in a team. With only 4 weeks to go we need to get cohesian.

[DeeVoted 582]

For what its worth.. my 2 cents.

I have never taken Fosters' / NAB cups too serious.

Its a bonus to make the finals, just to give us more TV exposure.Our situation right now is trying to find the best lineup,who looks like stepping up etc.

Getting smashed by Freo wasnt ideal,but I put it down to a bad day. Against Ess on Sat, IF they had nailed a few early

goals,instead of missing gettables,WE may have frightened the life out of them.We ended up playing catchup footy.

And I thought we held our own for most of the game.

I still think we will hit 30000 members.

[jayceebee31 671]

For what its worth.. my 2 cents.

I have never taken Fosters' / NAB cups too serious.

Its a bonus to make the finals, just to give us more TV exposure.Our situation right now is trying to find the best lineup,who looks like stepping up etc.

Getting smashed by Freo wasnt ideal,but I put it down to a bad day. Against Ess on Sat, IF they had nailed a few early

goals,instead of missing gettables,WE may have frightened the life out of them.We ended up playing catchup footy.

And I thought we held our own for most of the game.

I still think we will hit 30000 members.

We have been iffing and butting for far too long now...we need to start WINNING.Maybe the tanking was the wrong thing to do? Start winning by playing our players together over he next 3 matches along with more ball practice may assist greatly.Our skills have been appalling.Bad kicking is bad football and our kicking does not seem to have improved over the last 3 seasons. I last year suggested we gain a kicking coach-and still do.As Jimma is assisting Spencer and co. we may have to call on Robbie Flower or a Stan Alves to come down and show these young ones how to kick.The first quarter kicking by the Dees was atrocious,especially under pressure..in both matches against Freo and Essendon..

Edited March 1, 2010 by jayceebee31

[dee-luded 2,958]

Glad your hopeful and I do realise Jimma iS GODLIKE.however the players and coaches aren't. I feel our NAB results have been close to pitiful.We as a club really need to get our act together-where is ROOST IT now?

On our Trial Form we have gone backwards lucky to win a game at all.

Are, agenda's. Yours, or the clubs. Is it about winning nab games in February, or is it sifting through the kids to see who we'll blood this year?

IMO the clubs not really Trialing, against our opposition, so much as trialing against our own, to find out who is ready to step up, & who's not ready, yet.

I can see method in the percieved madness of playing weak forwardlines ATMO, to deliberately put pressure on our young mids & defence to see whos coping, & who's sticking to the defensive structures under pressure.

The best way to tell which youngsters are about right to take on the AFL challenge.

Now we are within 3/4 weeks of the season proper, I think we'll see the real side slowly take shape, & form slowly emerge. raising the excitement stakes & inspire the doubters.

Make no mistake,,, we not going to make the 8, not close. But 7/8 wins is not out of the Q?...

Preseason starts this week.

[jayceebee31 671]

Are, agenda's. Yours, or the clubs. Is it about winning nab games in February, or is it sifting through the kids to see who we'll blood this year?

IMO the clubs not really Trialing, against our opposition, so much as trialing against our own, to find out who is ready to step up, & who's not ready, yet.

I can see method in the percieved madness of playing weak forwardlines ATMO, to deliberately put pressure on our young mids & defence to see whos coping, & who's sticking to the defensive structures under pressure.

The best way to tell which youngsters are about right to take on the AFL challenge.

Now we are within 3/4 weeks of the season proper, I think we'll see the real side slowly take shape, & form slowly emerge. raising the excitement stakes & inspire the doubters.

Make no mistake,,, we not going to make the 8, not close. But 7/8 wins is not out of the Q?...

Preseason starts this week.

maybe to win one would be great.To win 7/8 on our current performance I say you are dreaming.

[DeeVoted 582]

I dont know if you have been down at training, but their

kicking - handball skills look pretty good to me.

Always room for improvement

Pack marking in contests to me seem an issue.

Match day is completely different totally.

Panic inexperience,or just trying too hard, makes mistakes

look a lot worse. Give them time,we have some young guns

its just going to take awhile.

If by years end there is no signs of improvement,then panic

[Keyser Söze 0]

We have been iffing and butting for far too long now...we need to start WINNING.Maybe the tanking was the wrong thing to do? Start winning by playing our players together over he next 3 matches along with more ball practice may assist greatly.Our skills have been appalling.Bad kicking is bad football and our kicking does not seem to have improved over the last 3 seasons. I last year suggested we gain a kicking coach-and still do.As Jimma is assisting Spencer and co. we may have to call on Robbie Flower or a Stan Alves to come down and show these young ones how to kick.The first quarter kicking by the Dees was atrocious,especially under pressure..in both matches against Freo and Essendon..

So is this the crux of your argument?

You are impatient and don't understand what it will take before we are competitive once again..?

Blind criticism will get you nowhere.

[45HG 1,539]

Out of interest, what about Saturday's game made you think we have gone backwards?

[Dappa Dan 2,188]

We have been iffing and butting for far too long now...we need to start WINNING.Maybe the tanking was the wrong thing to do? Start winning by playing our players together over he next 3 matches along with more ball practice may assist greatly.Our skills have been appalling.Bad kicking is bad football and our kicking does not seem to have improved over the last 3 seasons. I last year suggested we gain a kicking coach-and still do.As Jimma is assisting Spencer and co. we may have to call on Robbie Flower or a Stan Alves to come down and show these young ones how to kick.The first quarter kicking by the Dees was atrocious,especially under pressure..in both matches against Freo and Essendon..

First of all, tanking is the wrong word. If you're asking if we shouldn't have "managed" the list, try saying that in 3 years when Trengove is starring.

The comparisons between us and, say, the Hawks and Saints in their bottoming out years, are pointless, as are the worrywarts who think we shouldn't have managed the list last season. We are coming from a LONG way back. We don't have senior players who can teach, and more importantly inspire the kids of the calibre of, say, Crawford or Harvey.

We have so few senior players running to positions that the younger guys can kick to. For that matter many of the seniors are kicking so inaccurately I imagine some of the younger kids literally don't have anyone showing them how it's done. (Green and Davey excused obiously).

Personally, I think some physical fitness, a truckload of confidence, and a lot of footy together will solve the issues. The skills are there, they're just not being utilised, the team-mates aren't making it easier by offering bad leads and standing flat footed. In other words they're making each other look bad. But this will change.

What worries me is that if you look at Scully back in the TAC cup, his handballs were magic, partly because he had players on either side of stoppages running into space, making room, laying shepherds. The other 21 MFC players just have no idea they have such a good in and under player there.

For what it's worth, I just hope Bailey realised what he has there and coaches his players to have a little confidence in Scully. I'd hate to see him suppress that natural gift. We do seem to have a history of bringing out the mediocrity in especially gifted youngsters. Part of that problem is the mediocrity that comes before them. Who do they have to look up to?

Edited March 1, 2010 by Dappa Dan

[jayceebee31 671]

I dont know if you have been down at training, but their

kicking - handball skills look pretty good to me.

Always room for improvement

Pack marking in contests to me seem an issue.

Match day is completely different totally.

Panic inexperience,or just trying too hard, makes mistakes

look a lot worse. Give them time,we have some young guns

its just going to take awhile.

If by years end there is no signs of improvement,then panic

On the average it takes 5 years to rebuild.However we are not out of the woods financially yet. If we do not start something soon we will be overtaken by the GC & GWS.

[jayceebee31 671]

Out of interest, what about Saturday's game made you think we have gone backwards?

Our kicking- as stated earlier I thought it was atrocious.Lastly as the papers said- we ran out of legs and we have been training since October 7th.

[45HG 1,539]

Surely you've noticed that we've had atrocious kicking for the past two seasons.

Am I correct in deducing that you didn't go?

[jayceebee31 671]

Surely you've noticed that we've had atrocious kicking for the past two seasons.

Am I correct in deducing that you didn't go?

I have watched every game for the last 20 years. Missed 3 games in the last 51 years, therefore do not be a smartie.Last year we were supposed to be tanking. However over the time Bailey has been at the club he has stated our skills and in particular our kicking has been a major weakness, thus one would think during pre season etc.. we would have had alot of kicking practice which I have seen but this has been ground kicking. However, our kicking for goal is still poor.Maybe we should consider more skilled coaches as Bailley was not a great kick himself,along with Mahoney, West and Williams.Maybe we need Neita or the Ox to show them,which I have stated so many times.Bad kicking is Bad football simple as that..furthermore Winners are grinners and as Barrass says in the HUN today clubs need to be richer--our poor club could go to the walls.

Edited March 1, 2010 by jayceebee31

[Sir Why You Little 34,657]

I have watched every game for the last 20 years. Missed 3 games in the last 51 years, therefore do not be a smartie.Last year we were supposed to be tanking. However over the time Bailey has been at the club he has stated our skills and in particular our kicking has been a major weakness, thus one would think during pre season etc.. we would have had alot of kicking practice which I have seen but this has been ground kicking. However, our kicking for goal is still poor.Maybe we should consider more skilled coaches as Bailley was not a great kick himself,along with Mahoney, West and Williams.Maybe we need Neita or the Ox to show them,which I have stated so many times.Bad kicking is Bad football simple as that..furthermore Winners are grinners and as Barrass says in the HUN today clubs need to be richer--our poor club could go to the walls.

Jaycee i respect how many years you have followed the MFC. i am now nudging 40 years.

But you must remember how bad the situation was at the end of 2007. Bailey took over a train wreck on & off the field.

The player cleanout should have started after we lost the 2nd final against Freo in 2006. it didn't for whatever reason.

Thus the job was that much harder.

On saturday, from reports i have heard and read as i could not get there

1. Jamar played a beauty in the Ruck

2. Frank Grimes was a star

3. Ricky Petterd was good

4. Had the first 5 shots at goal....sadly they all missed!!!! i know, but what could have been.

Essendon played a pretty full squad, we did not. These are practise matches mate, our reasons for the practise are different to essendon.

Now i do not doubt a win would help us, but let us wait till maybe 7-8 games in to the real season to make the real decision on whether the club has gone backwards. Remember its also our opposition who is improving each year as well

After 2007 we came back from so far...and still are. i don't think any club started as far back as the MFC except maybe the Brisbane Bears in '87.

Keep the Faith mate.

Edited March 1, 2010 by why you little

[Damo 3,004]

Not everyone thinks Jamar had a beauty. He got a few hitouts, he took a few marks.

But his ability to dispose of the football is as bad as it ever was. He either handballed to someone who was in no position to receive or he kicked to a contest, seemingly every time.

His direct opponent was rated as one the best on the ground by both papers.

I hadnt commented as many on here believed he played OK, but now that his game is being extolled as a beauty, I must stick my hand up and say i expected better.

Compared to Steph Martin, though he is gold...

[Wolfmother 182]

As stated before the Fremantle debacle ,if we did not do well our membership drive would collapse. Well we are only signing up at 300 per week against our required 500 and after a 40 point drubbing and the loss of Morton I doubt if membership will reach our budgeted 31000.We will need to show something soon to get our supporters to sign up.

No wonder they are struggling to get the membership up when they are answering questions from supporters, we have discussed this before but let the club do there job rather than answer your questions...

[dee-luded 2,958]

maybe to win one would be great.To win 7/8 on our current performance I say you are dreaming.

February form = Zilch!

[45HG 1,539]

No need to get defensive jayc, I just read that you claimed 'as the papers said' and took it that you didn't see it.

Either way I think two pre season matches is far, far too early to judge if a team has gone backwards - especially one with only one player with over 100 games experience against a pretty much full strength team.

[Skipper3 7]

Great to see another positive post- I think we have gone backwards. Getting belted by Fremantle and then by 40 points by Essendon and running out of puff does not give me confidence for the start of the year. However beating Geelong convincingly like Richmond did gives confidence to all and momentum for the year ahead. We need to get a win shortly. Also we need to get our players co ordinated in a team. With only 4 weeks to go we need to get cohesian.

We ran out of puff on the weekend due to the fact we had returned from WA (prob late sun night/mon morn), where our opposition had the previous week off. It might be still pre-season, but it still shows how crucial during the week rehab is at this time of the year.

Dont forget, we were 3 goals down in the last quater before it blew out a little. Btw - I personally thought our disposal wasnt too bad in the first quater (if we had of kicked straight, we would have been level & I know you will say "bad kicking is bad football".......)

All in all, yes we still have a long way to go - but, we are moving forward & getting there. Go easy on the "oh we are crap" thinking. We are still still over 3 weeks til round 1. To be honest - if people like you have this "dooms day" mentality all the time, that will not help us with our cohesian (off the field) - we need ALL members to be on the same page & positive thinking

[jayceebee31 671]

We ran out of puff on the weekend due to the fact we had returned from WA (prob late sun night/mon morn), where our opposition had the previous week off. It might be still pre-season, but it still shows how crucial during the week rehab is at this time of the year.

Dont forget, we were 3 goals down in the last quater before it blew out a little. Btw - I personally thought our disposal wasnt too bad in the first quater (if we had of kicked straight, we would have been level & I know you will say "bad kicking is bad football".......)

All in all, yes we still have a long way to go - but, we are moving forward & getting there. Go easy on the "oh we are crap" thinking. We are still still over 3 weeks til round 1. To be honest - if people like you have this "dooms day" mentality all the time, that will not help us with our cohesian (off the field) - we need ALL members to be on the same page & positive thinking

Some of us maybe realistic and not dreaming.

[two sheds jackson 3]

... Maybe we should consider more skilled coaches as Bailley was not a great kick himself,along with Mahoney, West and Williams.Maybe we need Neita or the Ox to show them,which I have stated so many times.

You made this point earlier, and I think Deevoted addressed it pretty well.

When you look at our recruiting record in the last three years, we have almost exclusively drafted players who have (or at least are touted as having) very clean disposal skills. Much more so than Danniher/CAC, Bailey/Prendergast seem loathe to draft kids with question marks over their disposal. Problem is, no matter how skilled a rookie is, they are bound to make some shocking disposal errors as they adjust to the tempo of AFL; this may make them look poorly skilled, but can be a due to a host of other factors; i.e. you can be a very good kick but panic and rush your disposal, and absolutely shank the kick as a result. This kind of thing happens often to first/second year players, with very few exceptions, and since we've got a team full of them, it's neither surprising nor alarming.

It isn't a matter of "knowing how to kick"; most of these kids have had the basics of kicking drilled into them since Auskick, and if by this stage they need Robbie Flower to come in and teach them how to kick, our entire recruiting department should be sacked and we should begin our rebuild again from scratch. It's more a matter of becomming familiar enough and comfortable enough with the physical and mental pressure of AFL football to make sound, confident decisions, and for that to happen, we're going to have to sit through a few more games like the last two.

[45HG 1,539]

what we have shown so far- lucky to win a game..maybe we are planning to win in China in October and gain momentum for 2011.

Some of us maybe realistic and not dreaming.

Yes...some of us may be more realistic than others

[joeboy 2,809]

Not everyone thinks Jamar had a beauty. He got a few hitouts, he took a few marks.

But his ability to dispose of the football is as bad as it ever was. He either handballed to someone who was in no position to receive or he kicked to a contest, seemingly every time.

His direct opponent was rated as one the best on the ground by both papers.

I hadnt commented as many on here believed he played OK, but now that his game is being extolled as a beauty, I must stick my hand up and say i expected better.

Compared to Steph Martin, though he is gold...

I am certainly amongst the ones who attended the game on Saturday who believed that Jamar's game was top class .

There is no doubt in my mind that he clearly won the centre ruck duels with outstanding directional palming of the ball and strong work in close . Bearing in mind that this his pre season has been modified and restricted , I thought his performance was top class .

In further defence of his game , I cannot clearly remember one time that he failed to use the ball to his team's advantage , but even if he hadn't played well I'd agree with you that ' compared to steph Martin ' ..' he is gold '

BTW his opponents were rated on their performances up forward , not in the rucking contest , IMO.

Edited March 1, 2010 by joeboy

[e25 5]

Are, agenda's. Yours, or the clubs. Is it about winning nab games in February, or is it sifting through the kids to see who we'll blood this year?

IMO the clubs not really Trialing, against our opposition, so much as trialing against our own, to find out who is ready to step up, & who's not ready, yet.

I can see method in the percieved madness of playing weak forwardlines ATMO, to deliberately put pressure on our young mids & defence to see whos coping, & who's sticking to the defensive structures under pressure.

The best way to tell which youngsters are about right to take on the AFL challenge.

Now we are within 3/4 weeks of the season proper, I think we'll see the real side slowly take shape, & form slowly emerge. raising the excitement stakes & inspire the doubters.

Make no mistake,,, we not going to make the 8, not close. But 7/8 wins is not out of the Q?...

Preseason starts this week.

Good post. Raises some interesting possibilities that a lot wouldn't have thought of.

Pretty much the same reasons I used to justify why I don't consider it to have been tanking last year, but now that that isn't an issue they haven't occurred to me (shame on me).

[fredblackham 17]

Is anyone else worried about the lack of urgency we seem to have during the preseason?

We could have definitely benefited from the prizemoney and I fear any of the "hype" we generated from the draft and pre season training has evaporated in two weeks over two poor performances.

While I understand giving new players an opportunity we need all the momentum we can get.

Baileys contract extension is ill timed with the performances on the park being so poor.