McLean for Gysberts - worth it?

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

My Carlton sources tell me that Brock is absolutely training the house down and beating Judd in all of the long runs. They say he looks fit and refreshed and heading for a big season.

This was reported in the Press and there is another thread dedicated to this. Your Carlton sources must read Demonland.

[1858 259]

6.25cm is 2.5 inches. I think that is a significant advantage in aerial contests.

May I also point out that often increased height also comes with an even greater reach advantage.

I agree with that and in particular in the middle of the ground it is crucial especially when many of the mid options we have are low 180s.

A fundamental problem we have had in the last couple of years is our passing in general play. Our disposal has improved but it is a two way street - the ball also has to be marked. On too many occasions when we had mids such as McLean or Jones open in the centre corridore, recipients of 30 - 40 meter passes (not recomended but the best option on the spur of the moment in the heat of battle) we saw the ball either just sail over them or see them be spoilt by an opponent as the ball hung in the air and they were not tall enough to protect the ball and take the mark. It also comes back to the defensive side as well, very rarely could many of our short mids exert an effective aerial spoil of their own - a combination of lack of height and lack of leap. Also remember that leap is a handy thing but the shorter mids who run hard all day obviously tire and can lose that edge where a player who is a few inches taller retains their edge regardless of how good their leap is.

Gysberts sounds like he will be a real player for us so I don't want to trivialise his value/attributes by just focusing on his height but the reality is that his height will be important for us. I'm not suggesting that he will be a go to man or anything like that but simply he will be a better option for ball carriers to pass to in general play (particularly longer passes in the middle) and should be more effective in 1%ers like spoiling. We have a short midfield and the game not only went up in pace a couple of years ago but also taller mids are becoming more common IMO - definitely a game of inches.

Edited December 10, 2009 by 1858

[Guest hangon007]

With all due respect to a few posters around here but I suspect they are making comments based on hearsay and not actually making comments from seeing Gysberts play live.

this kid has a very good football brain who displays all the skills needed to be a perfect versatile AFL footballer ... "thinks very well for himself"

What you cant forget IMHO (& maybe I'm biased) the Eastern Rangers where very unlucky team in last year finals ... had it not been for a couple of key injuries before & during our final game IMHO we would have won the comp.

However, let me tell you this ... Jordans game against the then clearly dominant team of the year Geelong Falcons was an eye opener ... 1 player stood head and shoulders above the rest ...

PS ... I should also add a few people have mentioned Sydney ... personally I'm not so sure about that ... However, I can tell you for a fact he would not have got past Port's Pick at 16!!!

Edited December 11, 2009 by hangon007

[Carn dees 108]

With all due respect to a few posters around here but I suspect they are making comments based on hearsay and not actually making comments from seeing Gysberts play live.

this kid has a very good football brain who displays all the skills needed to be a perfect versatile AFL footballer ... "thinks very well for himself"

What you cant forget IMHO (& maybe I'm biased) the Eastern Rangers where very unlucky team in last year finals ... had it not been for a couple of key injuries before & during our final game IMHO we would have won the comp.

However, let me tell you this ... Jordans game against the then clearly dominant team of the year Geelong Falcons was an eye opener ... 1 player stood head and shoulders above the rest ...

PS ... I should also add a few people have mentioned Sydney ... personally I'm not so sure about that ... However, I can tell you for a fact he would not have got past Port's Pick at 16!!!

Its good to hear from people who have actually seen him live.

I no Shifter Sheehan rated him quite highly.

Although personally watching his Highlights i was a bit dissapointed.

[deanox 8,885]

...

PS On Gys, I'm basing it on the fact I didn't see any media or supporter predictions/assessments that him in the top 20.

...

http://www.afl.com.au/tabid/208/default.aspx?newsid=87451 burgos phatom draft has him at 24, but at pick 17 he says "...Eastern Ranges' Jordan Gysberts and Geelong Falcon Callum Bartlett have also been strongly touted at this pick."

this phantom draft http://theanimalenclosure.com/forums/showthread.php?p=664138

has gysberts at 25, but indicates he could go anywhere from 10 to 30. he also suggests that melbourne pick talls with pick 11 which we stated we don't rate. therefore perhaps we simply picked best available?

Pick 25 - North Melbourne - Jordan Gysberts – 189cm – 81kgs – Eastern Rangers (VM)

Gysberts is a modern day midfielder, a good height and loves to kick a goal. Gysberts is a AIS graduate which always helps. North Melbourne doesn’t have any major needs, which makes me think they will go best available for the majority of the draft. Gysberts could go anywhere from pick 10 to pick 30, and should be ready to play round 1. Gysberts is also very consistent, and you will always get a solid effort from him.

Why? You can never have enough classy mids and Gysberts is best available.

Others: Sam Reid, Callum Bartlett and Allen Christensen

on this sportal thread: http://forum.sportal.com.au/yaf_postst6464...ntom-Draft.aspx

2 supporters put him at pick 12 and pick 15 respectively.

perhaps you only read one or two phantom drafts, and forgot about players after the top 10 or so? perhaps you were focused on talls, so didnt consider the chance we'd pick a genuine mid at pick 11 so subconsciously didnt study them as much?

who knows, but he was around, rated highly and they have followed him for a while. despite what you have said.

[Disco Demons 92]

If you have a biro in your field of vision, 6 cm is half of that. It's about the size of your car key. You think that gives you a 'significant advantage' in a game of football? As I said, maybe once or twice in a match in a marking contest you would have a slight advantage, and if either player is in a better position eg on the lead it is totally irrelevant, if the other bloke is better with his body use, his leap, his strength, that advantage is more than nullified.. but people can't glance at a three-digit number quantifying those attributes can they

anyway im just ranting because im sick of reading people's expert opinions on why player x is better than y because of a car key... the same goes for 'gee he runs a fast 3km time trial' yeah well that's all well and good but we are playing football not track and field... and while im at it the same goes for weight/bulk... Paul Johnson is a monster of a man but is about one tenth of the player Morton or Jurrah are, even in contested marking situations where supposedly it is so critical to weigh a billion kilos, and they are the skinniest blokes in the side - it's because they actually have the ability to play football and it is not their athletic qualities that define them... Morton's endurance and Jurrah's leap are assets but they aren't the same as their height and weight in that quantifiable way and if they didn't have skill/brains to go with it they would be useless, see nearly every big bloke we have recruited in the last decade for examples, or take a look at S.Buckley or Bail for blokes who are there for their running ability but little else. Maybe if so much credence wasn't given to these numbers we wouldn't see so many sub-par footballers out there and we would recruit blokes who may be shorter/skinnier/slower but can actually PLAY. It's great that we have just focused our energies on getting athletic types for 3 drafts but they better be able to play too. At the end of the day it's about how you influence a match when you are out there with 43 other blokes. James McDonald has been one our most important players for a decade and he would probably not get a look in today because he doesn't run a 50 beep or big vertical leap and is not tall or bulky he just knows how to impact a match of football. Bottom line, if you wanted to assess a player you'd have to make a list of about 25 factors and height would be just one of them and a far less important one than many others

/end crazy rant!

PS On Gys, I'm basing it on the fact I didn't see any media or supporter predictions/assessments that him in the top 20. Don't pretend you know any better than me on this, I don't claim to be an expert but clearly my statement is probably right based on secondhand impressions in that picks 11-17 would have been someone other than he but there is no use arguing something like that.. i'm certainly not slagging the bloke off in any way, i'm just saying that if you apply logic its more likely the Brock McLean situation has netted us Tapscott, not Gysberts. Last year you couldnt say the same for Johnstone/Grimes/Maric because Maric wasn't a gem that happened to be untaken at 21 and there was no way Grimes would have been there at 21 we were lucky he was there at 14, the situation was the other way around to this year

/end 2nd crazy rant!!

ha,,whats the acronymn for western austrlian footbal league?

[old55 21,777]

... but clearly my statement is probably right based on secondhand impressions ...

probably definitely almost certainly possible

[H_T 2,941]

Your theory on Brock getting us Tapscott is still unfounded, as is your assumption Gysberts would have still been available.

Some experts said Gysberts would not have got past Sydney, but in the event that he did there was no chance he'd get past Geelong.

Agreed.

Fwiw, C&B may not have viewed the "Closest to Pin" thread well enough either. I know Melb2012 had Gysberts in the top 20 at pick 11, as did I early on for pick 18 (however I did sway a few times on players < holding myself accountable :D ) - even included footage of him in the opening post. Yet, I'm no expert but am a supporter who predicted him in the top 20.

I still think we got best available.

Edited December 11, 2009 by High Tower

[Redleg 38,195]

Pick 25 - North Melbourne - Jordan Gysberts – 189cm – 81kgs – Eastern Rangers (VM)

Not to nitpick but he is now 189.3cms and still growing. May get to 190 cms which opens up other positions later on when he fills out.

[Eastie Boyz 0]

I had him going top 10 at the start of the year.

If that appeases anyone's nerves

[Bang Na Demon 132]

I was absolutely RAPT when I saw his highlights, strong, great awareness of whats happening around him with the ability to get the ball to a teamate under pressure long or short, good overhead and runs to the right postions.

Now not wanting to get too far ahead of myself in any assesment of him but Ron Barassi described a champion player as one who has 3 options and always takes the right one, he has that in spades.

FWIW I like him more than Tapscott who appears a more one dimensional, bomb it long kinda player

[Brayshaw Self 847]

Tapscott was said to have the best kick in the carnival

he can play midfield or HBF, HFF. hardly one-dimensional

[Trisul 649]

I was absolutely RAPT when I saw his highlights, strong, great awareness of whats happening around him with the ability to get the ball to a teamate under pressure long or short, good overhead and runs to the right postions.

Now not wanting to get too far ahead of myself in any assesment of him but Ron Barassi described a champion player as one who has 3 options and always takes the right one, he has that in spades.

FWIW I like him more than Tapscott who appears a more one dimensional, bomb it long kinda player

[Curry & Beer 5,444]

probably definitely almost certainly possible

'more likely than not' does that help you understand? try really hard this time

[Curry & Beer 5,444]

ha,,whats the acronymn for western austrlian footbal league?

dunno... what's the acronym for Fully Understanding Christmas Kites On Friday Fortnight?

[Curry & Beer 5,444]

Not to nitpick but he is now 189.3cms and still growing. May get to 190 cms which opens up other positions later on when he fills out.

That's a joke to stir me, surely

7 millimetres and he's a Key Position Player

[old55 21,777]

try hard

No thanks, you've got that covered

[Keyser Söze 0]

dunno... what's the acronym for Fully Understanding Christmas Kites On Friday Fortnight?

Why Another Nonsensical Kwestion Everyone Resents..?

[Keyser Söze 0]

Not to nitpick but he is now 189.3cms and still growing. May get to 190 cms which opens up other positions later on when he fills out.

Let's just hope he stops there and doesn't reach the dreaded 192, or else it's curtains for Gysberts!

[Curry & Beer 5,444]

Let's just hope he stops there and doesn't reach the dreaded 192, or else it's curtains for Gysberts!

are you serious or joking? make up your mind, does 3 centimetres matter or does it not you can't have it both ways

[Curry & Beer 5,444]

No thanks, you've got that covered

why don't you try actually contributing to the discussion if you are such a smarta55 knowitall or do you just sit back and take potshots?

nobody wants to read your clever little jibes old man this site is for football discussion.

[1858 259]

are you serious or joking? make up your mind, does 3 centimetres matter or does it not you can't have it both ways

He was joking.

[Curry & Beer 5,444]

He was joking.

well his original contention is that 6 cm = 'significant advantage" so i'm interested to know why 3cm difference would be a laughable statement

[1858 259]

well his original contention is that 6 cm = 'significant advantage" so i'm interested to know why 3cm difference would be a laughable statement

I think a while back that a poster mad a rash generalisation that players around 192cm were no good for anything which then became folk law and a running joke but I am not on this site all the time so someone may be able to clarify.

[45HG 1,539]

The same bloke who believes Newton has no flaws and that Grimes has a fundamentally flawed kicking action also reckons that players of 192cm are rubbish because it's an in-between height.