WELCOME TO THE DEES JORDAN GYSBERTS

[the fork 357]

I feel sick in the guts when the recruitment of a young man to our club is met with such know-it-all arrogance, shock and dismay. So what, some thought we should have taken player X or Y or had seen a great clip on You Tube of player Z. Gysberts, has been suggested a first round recruit by some, and yesterday was by our footy department.

Anyone got anything to say about CHRISTIAN HOWARD a defender from Glenelg taken by the Dogs at 15? Never heard of him? Does this mean he is crap and the Dogs have made a mistake or is it possible that those whose opinions flourish online may actually not know everything.

Maybe Demonland has got more in common wiu BigFooty than it is willing to realise?

[Axis of Bob 11,219]

Jordan Gysberts may not end up as Gary Ablett, but Joel Corey is a damn good player. That's what I want Gysberts to become. He'll win the footy, give it to someone and then lay a block. I'm reminded of a saying about doing the common things uncommonly well. If Scully and Trengove become the players we expect, then Gysberts would be a wonderful foil for them both. Joel Corey never gets a tag, but in the last 3 years he's averaged 28 ppg, 5.3 tackles per game and been awarded with 34 Brownlow votes, all while blocking and freeing up Ablett, Selwood and Bartel. And, importantly, he just never stuffs up. He'll complement our two jewels in the crown very well.

Everyone looks at St Kilda and Hawthorn with their two imposing forwards and automatically thinks that we need to do everything we can to get another star tall forward. Well Geelong have won two of the last 3 flags and they're revolving around a very ordinary Cameron Mooney up forward. We're already miles ahead of their key forwards by drafting Watts.

Everyone cries out that they have an awesome midfield and we'll never get to that level. Well the way they got Ablett, Bartel, Corey and Selwood was by drafting midfielders in the first round (except Ablett). The latter 3 were all mid-first round picks - like Gysberts. And what do the all have in common? They win their own ball, they use it well and they never stuff up - like Gysberts. They don't have X-factor, they're just really, really good footballers.

Although I've only seen a few games of Gysberts, I'm very happy with the thought process behind taking him. It's how good teams win pressure games of footy.

[45HG 1,539]

Absolutely AoB, very excited about our future - we're well on the way it seems.

And Gary ablett was a first round pick in all but name

[Gooner 9]

Jordan Gysberts may not end up as Gary Ablett, but Joel Corey is a damn good player. That's what I want Gysberts to become. He'll win the footy, give it to someone and then lay a block. I'm reminded of a saying about doing the common things uncommonly well. If Scully and Trengove become the players we expect, then Gysberts would be a wonderful foil for them both. Joel Corey never gets a tag, but in the last 3 years he's averaged 28 ppg, 5.3 tackles per game and been awarded with 34 Brownlow votes, all while blocking and freeing up Ablett, Selwood and Bartel. And, importantly, he just never stuffs up. He'll complement our two jewels in the crown very well.

Everyone looks at St Kilda and Hawthorn with their two imposing forwards and automatically thinks that we need to do everything we can to get another star tall forward. Well Geelong have won two of the last 3 flags and they're revolving around a very ordinary Cameron Mooney up forward. We're already miles ahead of their key forwards by drafting Watts.

Everyone cries out that they have an awesome midfield and we'll never get to that level. Well the way they got Ablett, Bartel, Corey and Selwood was by drafting midfielders in the first round (except Ablett). The latter 3 were all mid-first round picks - like Gysberts. And what do the all have in common? They win their own ball, they use it well and they never stuff up - like Gysberts. They don't have X-factor, they're just really, really good footballers.

Although I've only seen a few games of Gysberts, I'm very happy with the thought process behind taking him. It's how good teams win pressure games of footy.

I think we're more likely to be based similar to St Kilda.

A decent CHF, hopefully a decent FF, but no guarantee, and a quality midfield.

[Adam The God 29,432]

I totally agree here. I cannot believe we allowed Griffiths, Talia, Black and Carlisle slide past 11 and then past 18! We got the two best midfielders in the draft then spent our picks on MORE FREAKING MIDFIELDERS!

I like Max Gawn at 34, what an imposing monster he will be but to take Fitzpatrick at 50 is ridiculous. We have committed to rookie listing Meesen again, because unless I cant read, no one drafted him.

So we come out of the draft with 4 midfielders another on to come in the PSD and 2 ruckmen, 1 more to be re rookied and NO QUALITY KEY FORWARDS. WTF Melbourne? Seriously, WTF.

My faith in the recruiting staff is completely shot. :angry:

Not really...we've now built up a top notch talent pool of midfielders (with the possibility of getting another in Viney a couple of years down the track), which we severely lack. Our backline is exciting and all our forwardline needs is one of the blokes we picked up yesterday (Tapscott or Fitzpatrick) to break through and we have a talent pool good enough to challenge in a few years time. At worst, we can look to pick a KPF over the next two years. I think our forwardline will be tall, mobile, beautifully skilled and good decision makers. This will make us very hard to match up on. Now it's time to watch the seeds grow. Well done, MFC. If we didn't rate any of the tall forward prospects why take one? It doesn't make sense. We've made the right decision, as far as I'm concerned.

[Adam The God 29,432]

Burgan also noted that Adelaide had been linked to him at pick 13. It's not a great leap from 13 to 11.

And when you say 'always', do you mean in the past six weeks, or in the past 18 months? I'm talking about the past 18 months, and in that time, Gysberts has consistently been considered worthy of a first-round pick by many judges.

I think BP and co have taken a ruthless 'best available' mantra into this year's draft. There have been serious question marks raised about the depth of quality in the talls in this year's crop so I reckon they've made the right call by going for the best available player at their first four picks. At 34 and 50, we had plenty of time to select for needs.

Spot on, I agree.

[Guest ted bundy]

TB was at training this morning, all the new lads were there been shown around, and our freinds from Kasperky were there as well, have you ever seen a Russian try and bounce a footy, Max Gawn is a monster thats built like superman.

[Adam The God 29,432]

And we needtot ease up on the Rohan Bail bashing. The dude has played 5 mins of AFL footy! Give him a season before the daggers come out.

Agreed, give it a rest. Having seen him play barely five minutes is hardly enough to judge. It shows a lack of knowledge and general intelligence really.

[Nasher 33,607]

I think we're more likely to be based similar to St Kilda.

A decent CHF, hopefully a decent FF, but no guarantee, and a quality midfield.

I like the Geelong model. A handful of elite players surrounded by an entire army of A graders. If you've got that, who cares who else you've got in the other positions, because you'll be able to beat anyone. If you look at our recent drafting, that appears to be the direction we're going for.

[Adam The God 29,432]

I'm big on the importance of gun forwards being essential to premiership sides. We're doing nicely with Watts and Jurrah, but another one would have topped it off nicely in my opinion.

The thing is the tall talent wasn't there. So we weren't going to get another Watts or Jurrah, so why waste the pick, when we could pick up a much better midfield prospect?

[1858 285]

Well, well, is this BP recruiting the best player he thinks is available?

I think the majority of posters were in support of this rpfc.

In the end, BP didn't want to spend Pick 11 on a 3rd Forward which is what Talia would have been.

Again with the 3rd forward routine...

BP did not want to use pick 11 on Talia (or another KPF) because he rated a particular midfielder higher which is completely sound reasoning. If a couple mids were not available and Talia was then rated as the best option it doesn't mean that his position in the club would all of a sudden go up a notch, he would still be a probable 3rd tall. I doubt BP rated Talia et al based on their relativity to Watts and Jurrah, he just simply didn't rate them by the sounds of it.

Despite your aversion to a possible "third tall" with pick 11 or 18, your self admitted "affirmative action" for a tall if all options were equal seems to be at odds with that. By this, you are more or less saying that you are happy to go with one if they are not eclipsed by a mid or other option - given that they could still end up being a 3rd tall makes this a curious point.

Your conclusion in that thread (that a third tall would not be worthy of pick 11) was flawed IMO even though the synopsis (that pick 11 may not acquire a 1st tall or the forward many were idealising) I agreed with and yesterdays result does not explicitly support your conclusion at all. There were (thankfully) simply better options available.

FWIW I think going by the club's evaluations of talent we had a bumper of a draft.

[rpfc 28,052]

I think the majority of posters were in support of this rpfc.

No they weren't. I could name on one hand the posters that said that we should go for BA over 'the best tall forward at 11.' It was like a bloody mantra, if you go and look at the 'The Third Draft' thread it's OP by Demonland was devoted to tall players as if there was some compulsive obsession, rather than a need, for a tall at 11.

BP did not want to use pick 11 on Talia (or another KPF) because he rated a particular midfielder higher which is completely sound reasoning. If a couple mids were not available and Talia was then rated as the best option it doesn't mean that his position in the club would all of a sudden go up a notch, he would still be a probable 3rd tall. I doubt BP rated Talia et al based on their relativity to Watts and Jurrah, he just simply didn't rate them by the sounds of it.

Sound reasoning. That's what I asked for - if a mid was rated higher than a KPP, don't overlook him because of his height.

Despite your aversion to a possible "third tall" with pick 11 or 18, your self admitted "affirmative action" for a tall if all options were equal seems to be at odds with that. By this, you are more or less saying that you are happy to go with one if they are not eclipsed by a mid or other option - given that they could still end up being a 3rd tall makes this a curious point.

I was going with the talent. If the talent means a 3rd tall so be it, if the talent means an extra mid in the rotation so be it. It ended up as the latter option, as it usually does. A majority of the best talls don't reveal their talent until they are in their 20s.

Your conclusion in that thread (that a third tall would not be worthy of pick 11) was flawed IMO even though the synopsis (that pick 11 may not acquire a 1st tall or the forward many were idealising) I agreed with and yesterdays result does not explicitly support your conclusion at all. There were (thankfully) simply better options available.

At least you're on the same page with regard to people wanting Pick 11 or Pick 18 to be spent on talls to relegate Jurrah to a third tall.

It's ridiculous to think that there would be an identified talent at 11 that could relegate Jurrah and not be picked in the top 10 ( or even at 1 or 2 by us).

I will, at this point in time, stand by my statement that Talia or Black would have been third talls, and not worthy of Pick 11. Gysberts is a mid and, as we are all well aware, you need a multitude of bodies to run through your midfield in the modern game.

We have made our value bets at 34 and 50 with talls that would provide a different option to Talia and Black (and by extension Watts, Jurrah, and Bate), and I think they have made the right decision not to gamble earlier in the draft.

Edited November 27, 2009 by rpfc

[1858 285]

No they weren't. I could name on one hand the posters that said that we should go for BA over 'the best tall forward at 11.' It was like a bloody mantra, if you go and look at the 'The Third Draft' thread it's OP by Demonland was devoted to tall players as if there was some compulsive obsession, rather than a need, for a tall at 11.

ok, well perhaps I didn't peruse enough threads on that one.

I was going with the talent. If the talent means a 3rd tall so be it

Thankyou, that's all I was getting at. If a 3rd tall is the best or equal best available then they can't be a wasted investment of pick 11 or any pick.

It's ridiculous to think that there would be an identified talent at 11 that could relegate Jurrah and not be picked in the top 10 ( or even at 1 or 2 by us).

I made the exact same arguement and I enforced the point that this in turn aided the suggestion that pick 11/18 would not necessarily be wasted based on being 3rd tall.

I will, at this point in time, stand by my statement that Talia or Black would have been third talls, and not worthy of Pick 11. Gysberts is a mid and, as we are all well aware, you need a multitude of bodies to run through your midfield in the modern game.

No problem with that at all but IMO they are two seperate opinions. The first one I agreed with, the second one I didn't know enough about the talent to offer an in depth opinion.

When making general rules though I think it is a grey area when you argue (in this case) the 2nd opinion based on the 1st opinion ie concoct a rule out of the two. Adapting these opinions to the line you followed in the other thread at the time would yield: Talia or Black would be third talls, and hence not worthy of Pick 11. I simply questioned this as a general rule.

[grant 10]

The MFC must no something no one else knows, because from all reports Talia or Lucas were always ahead of Gsybert..

Anyway whats done is done, and I hope Gys shows the rest of the AFL recruiters a thing or two.

[Jarka 767]

I'm pretty happy with this pick, and I can put up my hand and say that I was one of the few to previously say that we shouldn't go for a tall at 11 just for the sake of it.

As for the pick itself, it's reasonable to suggest that we were hoping that Melksham would have fallen to 11, but in the end he was too good a player for that to happen. Lucas was the other main possibility here, good player but query over his disposal and he's also from WA.

McMillan-Pittard & Jetta were probably also discussed but I'll presume they wanted someone who can go through the middle as well as kick goals. Stevens & Bartlett may have also been in the mix but the reality is that they were always going to slide for various reasons (injuries).

If you look at the collective mock draft comments on Gysberts they're full of comments which were unsure & had mixed feelings. Basically most people were unsure on his ability and potential. Some stated he had poor disposal while others were impressed with his skills. You have to remember though that the majority of the mock drafts authors are amateurs who don't see many games. There are only a few who I read and take seriously. 'Group think' is a common theme. People look at our forward and dont see a dominant big forward so they presume we have a weakness there and will try to rectify it. But they don't delve further and consider the talent we've got coming through, the planend structure and the style of footy the FD wants the team to play. It's basing a decision on only 20% of the facts, you're bound to get it wrong.

Did I predict Gysberts at 11? Hell no, it was a surpise to me like everyone else, but on reflection and looking at his videos it makes sense. I love all of our picks, although Troy Taylor would have been great but we just don't have the room.

[Footynut 302]

The MFC must no something no one else knows, because from all reports Talia or Lucas were always ahead of Gsybert..

Anyway whats done is done, and I hope Gys shows the rest of the AFL recruiters a thing or two.

I'm not singling you out grant but this thread is just driving me insane. It's actually really really simple! bp loved gysberts more than anyone else in the draft at that pick. Regardless of size or anything that's who he rated. Bp wasn't even sure he would still be there at 11. If he was he was always going to take him.

I myself went to the draft function thinking we needed a tall at 11. But when our head of recruiting who should know what he is doing says he didn't rate any tall in the draft bar butcher, then I trust him to know. I am continually amazed at all these posts that people seem to know recruiting better than our team. We all need to have faith in our team. They put themselves on the line with each selection well aware history will judge their work. I hope everyone gets over the issue and moves onto getting stuck into reviewing training and progress of the team rather than lamenting on personal opinions that are often based on others opinions.

Go the dees!!!!

Edited November 27, 2009 by Footynut

[... 11]

I'm not singling you out grant but this thread is just driving me insane. It's actually really really simple! bp loved gysberts more than anyone else in the draft at that pick. Regardless of size or anything that's who he rated. Bp wasn't even sure he would still be there at 11. If he was he was always going to take him.

I myself went to the draft function thinking we needed a tall at 11. But when our head of recruiting who should know what he is doing says he didn't rate any tall in the draft bar butcher, then I trust him to know. I am continually amazed at all these posts that people seem to know recruiting better than our team. We all need to have faith in our team. They put themselves on the line with each selection well aware history will judge their work. I hope everyone gets over the issue and moves onto getting stuck into reviewing training and progress of the team rather than lamenting on personal opinions that are often based on others opinions.

Go the dees!!!!

Well said.

One of the best things about the MoM night (apart from the quarter piece of sandwich I had to wrestle Neita for) was the opportunity to have a few brief chats with the coaching and recruiting staff.

On Gysberts, Mahoney mentioned that he handles the ball very cleanly when under pressure in the pack. It was actually the first thing that came out when I asked him about the pick. They also see him as a good running midfielder, not just an inside player.

[Footynut 302]

Well said.

One of the best things about the MoM night (apart from the quarter piece of sandwich I had to wrestle Neita for) was the opportunity to have a few brief chats with the coaching and recruiting staff.

On Gysberts, Mahoney mentioned that he handles the ball very cleanly when under pressure in the pack. It was actually the first thing that came out when I asked him about the pick. They also see him as a good running midfielder, not just an inside player.

Agreed BD those party pies were like finding water in the desert!

I just think he is going to be fantastic cant wait to see the top 4 picks in action!!!

[Eastie Boyz 0]

Burgan also noted that Adelaide had been linked to him at pick 13. It's not a great leap from 13 to 11.

And when you say 'always', do you mean in the past six weeks, or in the past 18 months? I'm talking about the past 18 months, and in that time, Gysberts has consistently been considered worthy of a first-round pick by many judges.

I think BP and co have taken a ruthless 'best available' mantra into this year's draft. There have been serious question marks raised about the depth of quality in the talls in this year's crop so I reckon they've made the right call by going for the best available player at their first four picks. At 34 and 50, we had plenty of time to select for needs.

18 months?

Try 3 years.

Played juniors with Sam Blease a bit, and at Ranges was always rated a better AFL prospect.

For a while (particularly last year) was rated a top 10 certainty for this draft but from what I've read his disposal didn't improve as much as everyone would have hoped so he's dropped a bit (not much though obviously).

Could be compared to Chris Heffernan/Justin Blumfield circa 2000-2001

[Footynut 302]

18 months?

Try 3 years.

Played juniors with Sam Blease a bit, and at Ranges was always rated a better AFL prospect.

For a while (particularly last year) was rated a top 10 certainty for this draft but from what I've read his disposal didn't improve as much as everyone would have hoped so he's dropped a bit (not much though obviously).

Could be compared to Chris Heffernan/Justin Blumfield circa 2000-2001

Yes I was also thinking a taller version of Chris Heffernan....

[Eastie Boyz 0]

Not much taller (186 vs 188) but definitely a similar mould. Doesn't do anything exceptionally well - just does everyone at a more than acceptable level and is extremely versatile

[Demon16 69]

just does everyone at a more than acceptable level and is extremely versatile

hmmmmmm.......that could be a quote on an upcoming porn movie

[jnrmac 19,905]

For those worried about our fwd line I have a couple of points:

1. Garland will play fwd in 2010 (his set back is nowhere near as bad as people think)

2. Jamar can pinch hit fwd so can Martin

3. Fitzpatrick is a super fast tall that can play fwd.

4. Wona, Jurrah, Watts, Green, Petterd and Dunn with the talls is a fwd line that will be hard to match up on and will give us a lot of versatility

and

5. Neitz and Robbo did quite nicely with pzzzzpoor delivery over many years. We will at last have some elite mids coming through who can put it lace out. Strauss, Maric, Tapscott, Trengove, Davey, Blease and possibly Scully will feed the fwds for years to come.

Bring it on.

Edited November 28, 2009 by jnrmac

[jnrmac 19,905]

I'm not singling you out grant but this thread is just driving me insane. It's actually really really simple! bp loved gysberts more than anyone else in the draft at that pick. Regardless of size or anything that's who he rated. Bp wasn't even sure he would still be there at 11. If he was he was always going to take him.

I myself went to the draft function thinking we needed a tall at 11. But when our head of recruiting who should know what he is doing says he didn't rate any tall in the draft bar butcher, then I trust him to know. I am continually amazed at all these posts that people seem to know recruiting better than our team. We all need to have faith in our team. They put themselves on the line with each selection well aware history will judge their work. I hope everyone gets over the issue and moves onto getting stuck into reviewing training and progress of the team rather than lamenting on personal opinions that are often based on others opinions.

Good post.

If it was so easy everyone would have picked Aaron Davey.

Sometimes there are fads and conventional wisdom. If BP who has probably watched a few thousand hours of junior footy plus interviews etc reckons this kid is the goods then that's excellent by me.

[Pepe Dee Pew 0]

For those worried about our fwd line I have a couple of points:

1. Garland will play fwd in 2010 (his set back is nowhere near as bad as people think)

2. Jamar can pinch hit fwd so can Martin

3. Fitzpatrick is a super fast tall that can play fwd.

4. Wona, Jurrah, Watts, Green, Petterd and Dunn with the talls is a fwd line that will be hard to match up on and will give us a lot of versatility

and

5. Neitz and Robbo did quite nicely with pzzzzpoor delivery over many years. We will at last have some elite mids coming through who can put it lace out. Strauss, Maric, Tapscott, Trengove, Davey, Blease and possibly Scully will feed the fwds for years to come.

Bring it on.

And then there's Miller