John Butcher

[beelzebub 23,250]

I must confess I cant see whats the fuss over Panos. Seems fairly average to me. Another taller type who can look good in his age group. Its a diferent world in the big time. Same goes for Butcher but think Butcher easily has it over Panos. Still leaning towards two mids then the best avail at 18 with no caveat as to position. Half inclined to use 18 in trading myself

[Axis of Bob 11,316]

I like Butcher because he has a lot of talent as a low possession pack marking key forward. He's an exceptional contested mark, has good speed and is a great size to do all of that. I'd be happy to pick him up at 2, but unfortunately the concerns about his kicking are definitely not baseless. And if you are picking him as a low possession '8 kicks - 4 goals' type player then you really need to be a good converter in order to be put ahead of the likes of Trengove. However kicking for goal is something that I believe can be taught simply through mindlessly boring repetition.

At this stage it's the dependable Trengove for mine.

[Adam The God 29,666]

I favour Trengove too, but Morabito has star factor all over him.

Supporters really shouldn't form concrete views unless they've seen a player live.

I'm not forming any concrete views. I don't claim to know much about him at all, I was just going on that footage I saw. He moved well and won a lot of the footy, but barely hit any of his targets. That just worries me a little bit. Particularly watching Scully kick the ball and his accuracy. From what I have seen of Scully, his right foot is probably of the same standard as both of Morabito's. But as I say, I'm only going on a small bit of footage, perhaps Morabito hits targets more regularly in other games? The reason I'm even bothering to point out his foot skills, is because elite footpassing is something that we desperately need and I crave. It would worry me to think we're picking someone at #2, not late 1st round or early second round, but #2, who doesn't use the football like an elite player, but just has X-factor potential.

Edited August 13, 2009 by AdamFarr

[Its Miller time 6]

I think with our young list and lack of older experienced players personality off field should be a big factor in who we choose too. Obviously i have no idea what is really going on behind closed doors but i could see a wild child (like a young Colin Sylvia) possibly disrupting the whole group.

The club would be too professional to let it get out of control but even the smallest distraction is too much at this point i think. Maric didn't do much wrong but it is a reminder how quickly and easily young men with a lot of time on their hands and living their dream can slip up.

Having an Ego is required for being a top player but must be balanced by a strong team ethic. There is so much more to consider with 2 highly prized picks than just playing position alone.

I must say though i have more confidence than probably ever before that the club is heading in the right direction and will leave no stone unturned in there quest for the ultimate glory.

[Strawbsodwyer 0]

butcher not named for gippsland, he must be still injured. If he was going to get picked up by the d's at pick 2 he is going to have to get on the park and play some good games before draft day.

[Roost It 1,434]

butcher not named for gippsland, he must be still injured. If he was going to get picked up by the d's at pick 2 he is going to have to get on the park and play some good games before draft day.

Not necessarily. Recruiters know that Butcher is injured and has been for most of this year. They are going to have to look at last year's form and the extent of his injuries when making up there minds. From all the reports I've read and the vision I've seen he's a quality tall. Do we need a player who can develop into a smash and grab forward, oh yes we do.

[beelzebub 23,250]

Is it just me that gets jittery when you keep hearing this or that player is injured ??

[Bay Riffin 1,454]

Interesting one isn't it. I remember Hawks supporters losing patience quickly with Roughhead as he looked only VFL standard, top heavy and a one trick pony at that.

Onr thing with these blokes is, if you invest in them and see they CAN be quality, then the rewards can be huge. Our recruiting staff in recent times I think have proven above average with Bennell, Jetta, Maric, Grimes actually showing something tangible and Watts looking the goods at least. We have to have faith they will choose the best players.

Look, if we get picks 1 and 2, lets not forget what a massive advantage that is. Clubs would die for our position at present and no other club is not even eligible for a 2nd round pick, and you could argue the tiges at least deserve that.

[Carlos Danger 380]

What is Panos like in terms of mobility?

I've seen very little of him and never in person.

Being able to cover a lot of ground is definitely a must for me in a KPF unless it is a late pick.

All of it worth watching, it's enough to sell me on taking this guy over John Butcher if going for the midfield/forward approach.

I think the best policy would be to go for the best talent available in the draft, even if that means 2 midfielders. And on top of that I would take an elite midfielder over an elite forward any day of the week. Games are won and lost in the midfield and IMO, they play a far more important role. With that said Tom Scully and Jack Trengove would be my choices and hopefully Matthew Panos taken with the first pick of the second round (though I doubt he'll still be available at that stage of the draft).

But whatever way this all goes down, I am going to be more than happy with whatever we get.

[H_T 3,040]

butcher not named for gippsland, he must be still injured. If he was going to get picked up by the d's at pick 2 he is going to have to get on the park and play some good games before draft day.

Interesting. <_<

[e25 5]

All of it worth watching, it's enough to sell me on taking this guy over John Butcher if going for the midfield/forward approach.

I think the best policy would be to go for the best talent available in the draft, even if that means 2 midfielders. And on top of that I would take an elite midfielder over an elite forward any day of the week. Games are won and lost in the midfield and IMO, they play a far more important role. With that said Tom Scully and Jack Trengove would be my choices and hopefully Matthew Panos taken with the first pick of the second round (though I doubt he'll still be available at that stage of the draft).

But whatever way this all goes down, I am going to be more than happy with whatever we get.

Yeah, after watching that video and the other footage I've seen, I'm far from impressed with Panos.

This just confirms to me how weak this draft really is.

No wonder he didn't get drafted last year - he has no qualities that make him stand out. He's just a solid player.

Edited August 15, 2009 by Enforcer25

[dee-man 0]

I must confess I cant see whats the fuss over Panos. Seems fairly average to me. Another taller type who can look good in his age group. Its a diferent world in the big time. Same goes for Butcher but think Butcher easily has it over Panos. Still leaning towards two mids then the best avail at 18 with no caveat as to position. Half inclined to use 18 in trading myself

Well sorry but you have just contradicted yourself there with thm playing against same age players.Considering Panos is playing league for Norwood & has been kicking goals everyweek against other men where as Butcher is playing against kids in TAC CUP & by all reports struggles against other kids.When he steps up against men its a different story but as of now Panos is doing that & was rated by all as being the best forward in the country after the U18 carnival

[dee-man 0]

What is Panos like in terms of mobility?

I've seen very little of him and never in person.

Being able to cover a lot of ground is definitely a must for me in a KPF unless it is a late pick.

Hea actualy very good.Watched him live again today & hes very mobile.Lead out from FF & took a mark outside 50 over the top of 3 other players then turned & hit a target 10 metres out from goal which was impressive.He chases & tackles well & ive seen him catch a few players holding the ball.Has actualy been playing in the league side at HFF so he has to do a bit of running.Can kick from outside 50 & loves to take players on

[dee-man 0]

I would love Panos at pick 18 but I think with Tippet perhaps getting some juciy offers off the gold cost boys, I'm worry that late in the fisrt round the crows could nab Panos. Is this the feeling over in Adelaide? or can someone shed some light on who they think they might take. cause i know they like taking there own SA boys

Even if they are confident they will keep Tippet does anyone think they will go after Panos to give him (Tippet) a chop out at times? or am I hoping that they have this under control with Taylor Walker?

Well the Crows are very confident of keeping Tippet but im not to confident of that although his girlfriend plays state netball & apparantly the Adelaide Thunderbirds are interested in signing her here so that may help them keep him.Hes contracted for another year but GC will be a big lure.Taylor Walker would then be the next backup fot the crows at FF in my opinion as hes kicking bags for Norwood.Just needs to work on a few things.They also have young Mckernan whos a future CHF so they have a few options.Also they still believe Pavlich will come back at the end of next year.Most reports here say they will prob get Tapscott as they like him & hes a on baller & Mcleod,Edwards & Goodwin are close to retirement so they need some new mids & they think Reilly will head back to Vic.Also think they mite loose Dangerfield.Anothr area they are panicking in is in Ruck,Griffin hasnt come on & its believed they will let him go,Moran is playing SANFL & Maric still has some work to do so they are keen on young Craig from North Adelaide

[dee-luded 2,959]

I sincerely hope we have learnt our lesson about drafting talls high up the draft because of a need. We took Luke Molan at pick 9 or so when he wasnt rated that high because he was thought to be the best tall left and look how that ended up. BEST AVAILABLE PLAYER!!!! It is that simple...

Spot on, I was talking to a draftee Scout recently who brought up those picks we wasted back around that time, he was scouting back then & he said they were the worst recruitment decisions he's ever seen. Laughing stock, he said.

[Carlos Danger 380]

Yeah, after watching that video and the other footage I've seen, I'm far from impressed with Panos.

This just confirms to me how weak this draft really is.

No wonder he didn't get drafted last year - he has no qualities that make him stand out. He's just a solid player.

He didn't get picked up last year because he was ineligible to nominate due to age, same reason as Scully. He will definitely go by the time round 3 comes along and for an 18 year old, I think that was a very impressive highlight reel. Not all draft picks are Daniel Rich, that's where a word called "development" comes into play.

Edited August 16, 2009 by The Dee

[e25 5]

He didn't get picked up last year because he was ineligible to nominate due to age, same reason as Scully. He will definitely go by the time round 3 comes along and for an 18 year old, I think that was a very impressive highlight reel. Not all draft picks are Daniel Rich, that's where a word called "development" comes into play.

Are you sure he was ineligible?

I've read somewhere that he nominated but didn't get picked up last draft (can't remember where but i read it not long before making the post)

Yes, development is important but first you need something to develop and I've not seen anything special about Panos.

Just a good average forward. Would probably dominate in the SANFL or the VFL, but not sure if he'd be any better than Newton at AFL level.

[Dr Jekyl & Mr Hyde 0]

Panos also drives a pretty nice Monaro - another positive to add to the list lol

[Dr Jekyl & Mr Hyde 0]

has anyone ever gone back through shifters comments on draftees and compared them to how the draftee actually turned out. i.e. nick smith one of melbournes first picks?

LOL would make for good watching/reading if they did.

I remember Colin Wiseby took him to task once over the rating of Billy Morrison back in 2002.

Whats funny is that when you listen to the live draft coverage - and you get to the 3rd/4th round onwards you start hearing less and less from Shifter - because he knows little of the players.

He will give an ambigous comment like - "theyve gone for pace" or "looking to bolster their talls".

Outside the top 30'ish - I doubt he'd know much about any others.