New Drafting System

[hillie 41]

The drafting system in the afl needs to be changed. The carrot dangled to lose is very enticing for teams in ours and west coasts' situations. We've seen this in years gone by with carlton and the likes. We should introduce a similar system to tht the NBA uses and put all the bottom 8 teams in a ballot for the draft order. Give the teams in order of last to 9th on the ladder a greater percentage chance of being drawn out by increasing their number of entries in the ballot. eg 16th receives 100 entries 15th recieves 80 or watever and so on. Top 8 teams get their draf pick due to order of finish as they played finals.

only differentiation to the NBA System in my proposal is as follows:

Make this the deciding order for the first two rounds only so the high draft picks are decided by chance and probablility.

But for th 3rd rounds going further make the draft order that of the order the teams finished so those that really did finish last can get their choice of smokeys and maybe talor their needs as best as they can. so one team can not completely luck out or get really lucky all the way through the draft.

This system would ensure that tanking was not an issue as there is no great incentive to finish further down the ladder, as the draft order in the first two rounds, where the highest touted prospects will go, is all down to chance anyway. nothing is certain. The bottom teams still get a choice of late picks in order of finish which would allow them their choice of player and lessens the risk another team that finished above you is going to snatch them away.

The only thing is with the introductions of the 2 new teams and their concessions. This system should be brought in after the draft concessions finish for the new teams, as finishing last in the next few years is not as beneficial as it is now due to being the first available pick to the team finishing last is pick 4 anyway.

One major benefit for this is that supporters can support their team no matter what without any hesitation that it might be in the best inerests not to win. I for one hate this feeling and it really is unaustralian. Bottom teams will be more competitive playing for pride and will really shape the top 8 due to this reason.

seems fair to me and pretty simple i would have thought.

[Sir Why You Little 36,577]

I would implement 2 things straight away.

1. A High Draft selection for the team who finishes 9th. To keep clubs striving upwards at all times.

A round 22 victory still has strong merit even if finals are not played.

2. A lottery Draft systems for the Bottom 4 clubs after the 9th teams pick.

Every body Falls in after that.

Simple Demitriou JUST DO IT.

[hillie 41]

I would implement 2 things straight away.

1. A High Draft selection for the team who finishes 9th. To keep clubs striving upwards at all times.

A round 22 victory still has strong merit even if finals are not played.

2. A lottery Draft systems for the Bottom 4 clubs after the 9th teams pick.

Every body Falls in after that.

Simple Demitriou JUST DO IT.

then what about if you're 12th coming into round 22, no chance at 9th, the incentive to lose is still there to lose to get into thebottom 4 ballot.

[hillie 41]

also this lottery/ballot system adds an extra important day in the off season that will generate excitement, the day the order is determined.

[Sir Why You Little 36,577]

then what about if you're 12th coming into round 22, no chance at 9th, the incentive to lose is still there to lose to get into thebottom 4 ballot.

ok 12th may list manage in that scenario, nothing is perfect. But its a much better system than we have now where up yo five teams start dropping off at round 12.

I really like the 9th incentive-clubs will fight for that.

For the wooden spoon team to maybe get pick 8 is too much. i think it should bre bottom 4

[45HG 1,539]

It's not often that you have a club coming 9th that isn't a chance for finals, even 10th-11th who are in with a sniff until near the end.

As such, I don't think it would change much.

[hillie 41]

ok 12th may list manage in that scenario, nothing is perfect. But its a much better system than we have now where up yo five teams start dropping off at round 12.

I really like the 9th incentive-clubs will fight for that.

if you're ninth at that stage your incentive is finals. we don't need to cushion the blow for a team thats just missed out on finals and reward them for it.

[Sir Why You Little 36,577]

if you're ninth at that stage your incentive is finals. we don't need to cushion the blow for a team thats just missed out on finals and reward them for it.

Of course a team should be rewarded for finishing 9th. Close but no cigar...It would make for epic struggles in the 2nd half of the year.

Its Much better than rewarding Failure as the system is Now.

[hillie 41]

Of course a team should be rewarded for finishing 9th. Close but no cigar...It would make for epic struggles in the 2nd half of the year.

Its Much better than rewarding Failure as the system is Now.

Richmond MIGHT have a decen team if that was the case. rewarding 9th Is rewarding failure.

[45HG 1,539]

How would rewarding 9th make for an "epic struggle"? Are you saying a team in tenth at round 12 will try desperately to win so that they can finish 9th, not top 8?

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

Either do away with the PP altogether or make it a "weighted" lottery.

R22====Lottery tickets===% chance of PP

Finish

16=======8 ======== 22%

15=======7 ======== 19%

14======= 6 ========17%

13=======5 ========14%

12=======4 ========11%

11======= 3 ========= 8%

10======= 2 ========= 6%

9======== 1==========3%

The only way to remove/reduce the smear of tanking is to reduce/ remove the incentive for underperforming (win less than 4.5 games in a year).

[dee-luded 2,959]

The drafting system in the afl needs to be changed. The carrot dangled to lose is very enticing for teams in ours and west coasts' situations. We've seen this in years gone by with carlton and the likes. We should introduce a similar system to tht the NBA uses and put all the bottom 8 teams in a ballot for the draft order. Give the teams in order of last to 9th on the ladder a greater percentage chance of being drawn out by increasing their number of entries in the ballot. eg 16th receives 100 entries 15th recieves 80 or watever and so on. Top 8 teams get their draf pick due to order of finish as they played finals.

only differentiation to the NBA System in my proposal is as follows:

Make this the deciding order for the first two rounds only so the high draft picks are decided by chance and probablility.

But for th 3rd rounds going further make the draft order that of the order the teams finished so those that really did finish last can get their choice of smokeys and maybe talor their needs as best as they can. so one team can not completely luck out or get really lucky all the way through the draft.

This system would ensure that tanking was not an issue as there is no great incentive to finish further down the ladder, as the draft order in the first two rounds, where the highest touted prospects will go, is all down to chance anyway. nothing is certain. The bottom teams still get a choice of late picks in order of finish which would allow them their choice of player and lessens the risk another team that finished above you is going to snatch them away.

The only thing is with the introductions of the 2 new teams and their concessions. This system should be brought in after the draft concessions finish for the new teams, as finishing last in the next few years is not as beneficial as it is now due to being the first available pick to the team finishing last is pick 4 anyway.

One major benefit for this is that supporters can support their team no matter what without any hesitation that it might be in the best inerests not to win. I for one hate this feeling and it really is unaustralian. Bottom teams will be more competitive playing for pride and will really shape the top 8 due to this reason.

seems fair to me and pretty simple i would have thought.

I like the idea of a lottery, picking the First 5 selections order, drawn by chance.

Priority pick,, I would keep the priority pick (16pts - 4 wins or less). But instead of being taken prior to the round,, it could be taken following the first 5 lottery drawn selections, (pick 6).

This would bring some integrity back to the draft, but would still aid the teams that have met with bad times.

I'd keep the first time priority pick (@ end of Rnd-1) as is.

[Sir Why You Little 36,577]

How would rewarding 9th make for an "epic struggle"? Are you saying a team in tenth at round 12 will try desperately to win so that they can finish 9th, not top 8?

Whether the team makes 9th or makes the finals, there is weekly incentive to keep winning. Unlike todays scenario

Teams will always strive for the finals,But 9th should be given some cred aswell

[Sir Why You Little 36,577]

if you're ninth at that stage your incentive is finals. we don't need to cushion the blow for a team thats just missed out on finals and reward them for it.

I am talking about the teams more under 9th to keep them pushing upwards till round 22.

If they are not good enough to win then they are part of the lottery.

We must stop these 2 divisions we have now. 10 weeks to go & 5 teams may as well not turn up. It's a joke.

[Doggo 32]

All good ideas. I think everyone agrees that changes need to be made, although at the moment i think the league are more concerned with the GC17 and WS18 ventures. Once the new clubs are finalised, a lottery pick system for at least the first round should definitely come into play.

Really like RR's weighted lottery. Can definitely see that one working in the future.

[deeflog 679]

We must stop these 2 divisions we have now. 10 weeks to go & 5 teams may as well not turn up. It's a joke.

i agree with this quote but i think the best way for the afl to head is a lottery. it needs to work along the lines of the more wins you get the more balls you get in the lottery or it will still invite tanking if its the opposite way.

Another question is when the league gets to 18 teams will it remain top 8 and one comp, or will it go to a 2 conference set up, and then the 2 winners of each conference play of for the GF

[biggestred 4,764]

i think the afl should be looking into salary cap issues before they look into draft order issus IMHO. the visy/judd/carlton saga is a clear example of where the salary cap itself is fine but the extra payments from visy are clearly what got judd to the club. this is truly a disgrace.

it also compromises the draft to some extent, in that if you are rich you get better.

i am also in favour of placing a salary cap on entire football departments.

as for the draft order, i think its fairly clear that if you are crap you need to get the picks.

perhaps a weighted lottery excluding priority picks. for example, we would get #1 this year still, if we were to win 4 or less, but the next 8 would be decided on a lottery system (at least for the first round). so potentially we would have pick 1 and one of picks 2-9. if that makes sense.

last year we would have had 17 still. but one of picks 1-8.

[mo64 5,457]

All good ideas. I think everyone agrees that changes need to be made, although at the moment i think the league are more concerned with the GC17 and WS18 ventures. Once the new clubs are finalised, a lottery pick system for at least the first round should definitely come into play.

Really like RR's weighted lottery. Can definitely see that one working in the future.

In the NBA, the weighted lottery system is appropriate because one player can make a team. Kobe Bryant and Lebron James are cases in point.

In the AFL, the difference between pick 1 and pick 4 isn't going to make a huge difference to a team.

The only way to stop tanking is to get rid of the priority pick.

[Doggo 32]

i think the afl should be looking into salary cap issues before they look into draft order issus IMHO. the visy/judd/carlton saga is a clear example of where the salary cap itself is fine but the extra payments from visy are clearly what got judd to the club. this is truly a disgrace.

it also compromises the draft to some extent, in that if you are rich you get better.

i am also in favour of placing a salary cap on entire football departments.

Agree. Although i don't see any reason why they couldn't address both issues at the same time?

[titan_uranus 24,551]

The problem isn't the draft, it's the priority pick. The PP acts as an incentive, rather than as a consolation. Rarely do we see a marked drop in talent between pick 1 and pick 4. The difference is between having pick 1 and having pick 1 and pick 2 at the same draft. So the PP must go.

[Toad33 57]

Ah. This little chestnet again.

It amazes me with all the previous discussion on this issue that people still think that putting balls in a lottery is somehow going to make the system FAIR.

IT WON'T.

How would you 'lottery lovers' feel if the team that finished bottom, like the MFC, kept getting the 8th draft selection every year. I bet you would be onto the message boards quicker than flies on [censored] to complain about it.

Firstly, no coach or club has even said they go out to do anything other than win a game.

Secondly, if it becomes apparent that you can't make the finals in a given season. a. Because of injuries. Why not prepare those players properly for the coming season by sending them off to surgery early. b. Because of lack of talent. Why not play the entire list in multiple positions to see what they have to offer for the following season and beyond or whether they should be delisted.

Both are legitimate and common sense 'list management' approaches with the future success of the club in mind.

Let me say that I also think that the suggestion of tanking is a blight on our game at the moment. BUT, I also think that a team that cannot compete with the mediocre sides in the competition are not doing themselves any favours if they DO NOT utilise the system that has been put in place to even out the competition.

That system is to give the worst team the best possible position to improve itself.

The fairest alternative system that I can come up with, and that I posted in another thread that I can't find now, is to average out the finishing positions of each team over several seasons; probably 4 or 5. Over that amount of time the little 'ups and downs' teams have will be evened out and it will be easier to determine the successful and less successful teams.

In this system it is most likely that several teams will end up in the same position on the 'averaged out' ladder. If this occurs the team with the most wins over that 4 or 5 years goes higher. If teams still can't be seperated the team that have won the most quarters should go higher. And if they still can't be separated the team with the higher percentage goes higher.

This system will eliminate the occurance of teams, like the MFC at the start of this decade, finishing high one season and low the next and getting a good draft selection, or even a priority selection, in the low year. What we would have got was a middle of the bunch selection.

If you apply this system to the Cats you will find that they will obviously get a later draft selection this year, most likely 16th, and furthermore will still be getting later draft selections even a couple of seasons after they drop off the top of the ladder. Conversely, Carlton will still be getting relatively early selections for the first couple of seasons they are climbing.

And Brisbane, who have finished 10th, 10th and 13th since there last premiership win, would get a middle of the bunch selection.

It is still not a perfect system but should over time even out the competition more fairly. It won't completely rule out the ability for it to be manipulated, but it will definitely make sure the worst performed team over a period of time gets the best draft selection and it won't insist clubs fates are resitng on the 'luck of the draw'.

Go Dee - Building for the Future 'working to aquire compensation for an AFL sanctioned football landscape designed to make MFC success, and respect, all but impossible'.

[Sir Why You Little 36,577]

I would implement 2 things straight away.

1. A High Draft selection for the team who finishes 9th. To keep clubs striving upwards at all times.

A round 22 victory still has strong merit even if finals are not played.

2. A lottery Draft systems for the Bottom 4 clubs after the 9th teams pick.

Every body Falls in after that.

Simple Demitriou JUST DO IT.

I shall add a 3rd point to my proposal

3. Clubs that finish the season in the eight should be well compensated Financially. The AfL makes heaps so spend it. Finishing 8th should always be much more lucrative to 9th.

But i think that fight for 9th by lowly clubs would certainly tighten up the competition.

[Guest Rojik of the Arctic]

Just give Melbourne the 1st 5 picks in the draft every year and every other team can eat their livers. Sounds fair to me.

[John Dee 445]

The only thing wrong with the draft as it currently stands is the priority pick. When all the talk of tanking comes around, what is everbody talking about?; four wins. What does four wins mean?; a priority pick.

Without the priority pick, this would be a dead issue.

[Dreamin' Demon 10]

1. Get rid of the priority pick

2. Base the drafting order as at round 14 of the ladder. This way tanking will be eliminated with 8 rounds to go.