Craig Cameron Up To His Old Tricks

[Hannabal 4]

His best pick will be Colin Garland.

I doubt it.

[youami 54]

Having said that, the discussion is about the decisions made by CAC since joining Richmond, and how it is comparable to the philosophy he employed at Demons.

Agreed his recruiting of individual players has been done to death, the discussion should be about his inability to move players on when their time was up, and his love of picking up recycled players.

[wisedog 352]

We were definitely up there from 2004 to 2006 and there was definitely a case for topping up the list with experienced players to pry open that premiership window for another year.

Clubs have to decide whether they have a real chance, or if they should sacrifice 3-4 years to rebuild. It's not an easy decision, and one that Melbourne with our poor finances and low supporter base can't take lightly.

Maybe he should have realized after the 2003 season that the list just wasn't up to it, but I think it was worth a shot.

[stevenDEMON 0]

Just a little off topic here. We need to start being a little bit more arrogant as supporters. Or else when we do start winning we will all be called bandwagon supporters. Trust me has anyone ever called a magpie fan a BW? I would think not, because they are always vocal and support there team through thick and thin. We seem to go a little quiet when times get tough.

You can all shoot me down for this i dont mind, its just something i feel.

[youami 54]

We were definitely up there from 2004 to 2006. There was definitely a case for topping up the list with experienced players to pry open that premiership window for another year.

Clubs have to decide whether they have a real chance, or if they should sacrifice 3-4 years to rebuild. It's not an easy decision, and one that Melbourne with our poor finances and low supporter base can't take lightly.

Maybe he should have realized after the 2003 season that the list just wasn't up to it, but I think it was worth a shot.

Finally a voice of reason. Fair enough point, but in hindsight that strategy was wrong because we didnt win a premiership, just like in hindsight Hawthorn's model was right, and Geelong's etc. I hope one day we, Melbourne, can look back in hindsight and say Bailey was right, Jim Stynes was right, Barry Prendergast was right and Cameron Schwabb was right. I have faith that we will.

[Jerry Lundergard 420]

I doubt it.

Positive as always H.

[The Wrecker 4]

Just a little off topic here. We need to start being a little bit more arrogant as supporters. Or else when we do start winning we will all be called bandwagon supporters. Trust me has anyone ever called a magpie fan a BW? I would think not, because they are always vocal and support there team through thick and thin. We seem to go a little quiet when times get tough.

You can all shoot me down for this i dont mind, its just something i feel.

No shouting down from me. There is no better excuse for being completely irrational and illogical about something than barracking for you footy team. It's a basic human right I say....

[Dappa Dan 2,188]

Carn the dees, the new board and the new coaching staff. You're all doing a terrific job.

True. And they've gotten us, so far, one wooden spoon from one year, with a distinct possibility that another is on the way. Perspective is a funny thing. I agree that they're making ALL the right noises, but fair dinkun, the old footy department did a pretty damn good job of keeping us afloat the last ten years too. I for one enjoyed 2004-2006. I was always left feeling empty, but I give Daniher and CAC credit.

What would you think of DB if he stayed at the club 5 years, got us within striking distance of a flag and then failed in the finals? Until he gets us a winning grand final team, ND will always have his measure. And Neale did it with bugger all top 10 picks. He was a victim of his own (albeit limited) success. Likewise CAC who was forced to be inventive with a number of lateish first rounders.

Good call. Couple that with Daniher who also had no long term vision or list management skills and its not surprising we went from the best Victorian team in 2006 to a laughing stock in 2008.

That "best Victorian team" was put together almost entirely by the two man you deride. Funny that.

Fairweather supporters. I'm from the Hannabal group on this one, in that I'm lukewarm on him. CAC didn't deliver a superstar, but he delivered a lot of corkers with late picks. The analysis would say more than his fair share. I loved him when he was with us, and simply a change of job doesn't make him a different person, or a poorer quality recruiter as many here would have you believe. I'll judge him in 3-5 years, and I'll take into account his time at Richmond. Until then, we're all guessing.

[praha 11,240]

Melbourne's problems now range from Daniher, to a terrible board, to Cameron.

A. You had a board that didn't want to sack Daniher, probably for financial reasons, when he should have been let go after the 15th "down year" (that's an exaggeration for those who lack any sense of humour). He was under contract, and sacking him would have forced them to pay out his contract. He should have been sacked at the end of 2003.

B. Cameron's good:bad recruiting ratio was about 1:100.

C. The board gave Daniher too many chances (entire 2003, poor end to 2004, 7 straight losses in 2005, poor end to 2006).

D. Daniher had too much faith in players who just won't win you a premiership. He wanted to "rebuild" after the 2002 finals loss to Adelaide. He failed. Players like Lamb, Godfrey etc. would have been sacked after their first game.

The reason we suck now is mostly because of Daniher's list management though. Bailey took over a list ravaged by players that break down in injury and just aren't up to AFL scratch. Last year was the beginning. It was inevitable. 2009 is the beginning. Expect under 2-3 years down the bottom before a revival. I haven't seen as big a rebuilding at the club since I've been a Melbourne supporter (early 90s). We've gone from a poor list with several veteran players, to a young list with two genuine veteran players and a bunch of 14 year olds, four of which are debuted on Sunday. Being down the bottom isn't so bad when a whole bunch of young guys are playing. Being down the bottom is terrible when you have a bunch of players who were meant to take you to a flag playing.

[Don24 103]

Correct, he didnt recruit, all the more reason to cut them. They are going nowhere doing nothing, why keep them on the list, he kept players on melbourne's list for years too long. Hoping they'd come good, whilst Hawks made tough calls on players like Steven Greene, Nathan Thompson, Jonathon Hay, Jade Rawlings etc.

So Cameron, despite being director of football/recruiting and list management, could make no calls on any of the players?? Thomson was a trade with Port, Hislop was taken in the draft so it cost htat draft pick, in a similar vein to Moorcroft. Moorcroft and Hislop can be compared on the results they achieved for the club, still early with Hislop but why would Essendon discard a good player with a good attitude.

Why bother?

I think you are confused with CAC's role, he is deals with recruiting...... once they are at the club he has nothing to do with them, how long they are kept at the club or when they are delisted has NOTHING to do with CAC....not his role so i think u need to check your facts.....

[Hannabal 4]

Positive as always H.

Let me qualify, William. I reckon Garland will be a very good player, but I don't quite see an out and out champion. Morton has the potential to become a star. Will he ? Who knows, but we need a couple to win a flag, hence I'm hoping that we all look back and say that Morton was CAC's parting gift and best pick during his reign. Even though it was a 'no brainer' of a selection at the time.

Mr Positive

[Bring-Back-Powell 14,846]

I'm somewhat uneasy about trashing Richmond and Cameron.

Their senior players didn't turn up on the night and we're having a go at the bloke in charge of recruitment?

It' all a good laugh until we get smashed in Rd 4.

Make no mistake Dees fans, we are every bit the favorite to finish 16th.

And until a good showing on Sunday (hopefully), we have nothing to hang our hats on.

Agree.

Richmond had a shocker, but are way better than us.

Richmond will win 10-12 games this year. We'll win about 3.

We should be the last team to take the [censored] out of Richmond.

[rpfc 28,480]

Let me qualify, William. I reckon Garland will be a very good player, but I don't quite see an out and out champion. Morton has the potential to become a star. Will he ? Who knows, but we need a couple to win a flag, hence I'm hoping that we all look back and say that Morton was CAC's parting gift and best pick during his reign. Even though it was a 'no brainer' of a selection at the time.

Mr Positive

I wouldn't say you're negative, but sometimes you need to include a qualifying statement, 'cause you can be mono-syllabic on occasion.

And on value Garland (Pick 46) might be better than Morton (Pick 4).

But on a straight up-and-down measurement you are probably right - Morton above Garland.

But, sh!t, Garland is a beauty...

(Can't believe he's the same bloke I wrote off a year ago)

[Redleg 40,944]

But, sh!t, Garland is a beauty...

(Can't believe he's the same bloke I wrote off a year ago)

You are not alone. Plenty of our posters wrote off Cheney last year and he is in the side this week. They may still be correct, but time and opportunity have changed many a (sporting) career.

[Dappa Dan 2,188]

From start to finish, one-eyed rot.

Even though it was a 'no brainer' of a selection at the time.

It was? (Morton) There were a couple of others around that might have snuck in weren't there? I seem to remember the selection had its fair share of detractors. Maybe not of the scale of a Naita/Watts, but in the same vein.

(Can't believe he's the same bloke I wrote off a year ago)

That's amazing. A poster who admits fault without being forced to. Quite extraordinary. There's hope for 'land yet!

[Jarka 767]

CAC had two different roles at Melbourne, main recruiter for a decade and list management for half of that period. His role as list manager could be a little tricky to judge because Daniher would have had a fair say on who went and stayed, however when your title is head recruiter and list manager and you get paid big bucks then you'll be judged accordingly, right or wrong.

CAC had his strengths, which were some of his late picks, and a couple of his first rounders were pretty decent. In particular Thompson and I rate McLean very good as well, my reasoning is that it was an ordinary year and McLean definitely wasn't considered a strong top 10 pick going into the draft. All the other stand out from that year have been pretty ordinary, Bradley, Fay, Tenace etc.

Jones was a pretty good pick as well.

His poor first round picks have hurt us badly though.

Someone mentioned that we were good in 2004-06, I strongly disagree. Successful clubs rate their seasons by how well they played in finals, and we were terrible.

Daniher and CAC were running the football department, they were the two main men in charge, and their results speak for themselves.

But, that was the past, the future is far more exciting.

[Hannabal 4]

It was? (Morton) There were a couple of others around that might have snuck in weren't there? I seem to remember the selection had its fair share of detractors. Maybe not of the scale of a Naita/Watts, but in the same vein.

No, your memory fails you. We couldn't read his name out quickly enough and he was widely acknowledged as a top 3 pick.

[phoenix 32]

People look at the strength of lists and sheet all the responsibility back to the recruiter for its strengths and weaknesses. But bringing young talent to a club is only part of the story. The second part and arguably just as, if not more, important is the development of the player once he arrives.

Under Daniher and Fagan Melbourne did not see the need to allocate many resources to this area. Connolly and Bailey do and we now have separate development coaches and there is far more emphasis on player welfare. In addition Connolly has pretty much reshaped the medical and conditioning sides of the club and hopefully we move from one of the most injury plagued clubs to one who has, at minimum, "average" injuries.

Cameron had his shocker selections and years with 2001 the low light. But his last two year (in 2006 and 2007) have produced Morton, Grimes, Maric, Cheney, McNamara, Martin, Wonaeamirri, Spencer, Frawley, Petterd, Garland. They will be subject to the "Bailey/Connolly" development program not the Daniher/Fagan one.

How many of you don't share significant excitement when looking at this bunch of players and if we succeed they will form a good part of our success. If that happens Craig Camerons fingers will be all over it and we will owe him.

And who is to say that if the same infrastructure was around from day 1 we would not have had significantly better results with our recruiting.

Many see football in simplistic terms but it is highly complicated with numerous aspects to get right. Rarely is a clubs situation the result of one thing but of course this makes analysis difficult and that does not suit some.

On balance, and with the infrastructure he had, I think CAC did a better than average job and perhaps a very good job. If his last few years selections help win us a flag I'll rate him as exceptional.