The Cousins Saga

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

Which ever way it goes it will be good PR. If he turns out good we were the ones that gave him a chance when no one else would have. Worst case if he re-offends then he is gone and we are still seen as the good guys for giving the bloke a chance.

WE HAVE NOTHING TO LOOSE, ONLY GAIN BY DRAFTING BEN.

The sponsors of NM, Brisbane and St Kilda have all express strong protests about being associated with Ben Cousins. Given we are battling to get a sponsor in these difficult times we will make the job even harder.

There are two issues about Cousins. Can he return to being a capable AFL footballer if not a star after nearly 2 years absence? Will he stay clean and free from any associated misdemeanours? From his actions over the couple of months he has provided potential suitors with good reason to question where he is at.

The worst case is he does not perform, is not clean and MFC looks like brainless and reckless gits for recruiting a player with substantial known risks that the other 15 clubs were seemingly able to steer clear of. We would be a laughing stock. Hardly a public endorsement for an Administration trying to convince the AFL that it is a responsible competent outfit while going cap in hand for $2 million.

You might want to read Caro Wilson article.......

http://www.realfooty.com.au/articles/2008/...7491548054.html

[45HG 1,539]

The worst case is ...

And the BEST case scenario is we recruit a 30-year old who is able to give us a couple of years of decent but declining footy, helping us to possibly win 6-7 matches instead of 4-5 each year before retiring, whilst taking up the spot of a youngster who potentially could have helped our club for a longer period of time.

There really isn't any upside IMO

[The Emblem 1]

And the BEST case scenario is we recruit a 30-year old who is able to give us a couple of years of decent but declining footy, helping us to possibly win 6-7 matches instead of 4-5 each year before retiring, whilst taking up the spot of a youngster who potentially could have helped our club for a longer period of time.

There really isn't any upside IMO

I'm with you 45hotgod, I can't see much upside in recruiting Benjamin, not if our goal is to build up a premiership list as opposed to a brief glimmer of competitiveness.

[rusty_kingswood 0]

Sheltered? Maybe... Uneducated? Quite possibly.... Wrong? Absolutely not.

The guy took drugs, kept taking drugs, and while you can feel for him and wish him the best all you like, there still shouldn't be a place for men of his moral character in footy. Talk about sheltered and uneducated? There is a LOT to be said about reintroducing him to a league where he's going to be hero-worshipped by kids. If he plays again, he'll likely play pretty well, simply because he's a quality footballer (though not for ALL that much longer), so kids will get behind him... and I tell you what, if you don't think that'll make drugs seem like less of an evil to impressionable minds, then you have some thinking to do.

The caveat here is that if he returns, and remains clean, renounces his past alignments with criminal elements, and IMMEDIATELY and permanently jumps on the anti-drug bandwagon, then he could resume his place as a role-model to kids. In fact it's conceivable that he could be an even more powerful anti-drug message if that were the case, but I don't see him doing any of that. If anything, he smugly smiles and nods and avoids the attention. And how much more impact can he have in the media with only a couple of good years left in him anyway?

None of this is intended to assassinate his character... I DO hope the guy can find some peace, and recover fully. But unless there's a dramatic shift in his public persona, there shouldn't be a place for Ben in the public eye.

Dappa, I actually agree with you on a few levels. However, in my post i was more refering to the ignorant comments such as, "dont fel sorry for any drug addict" and to "condem him for having to recover int eh first place". The funny thing about footballers is the fact that they are human like the rest of us. To condem someone for making a poor life choice is incredibly ignorant, and these types of comments could only come from someone who is sheltered and uneducated, among oher things

[H_T 3,047]

If Ben Cousins seriously wants to play AFL and resurrect his footy career, he should have no hesitation in abiding by the conditions put before him by the AFL as stipulated yesterday during the announcement by Mike Fitzpatrick and Alex Demetriou. Saying the conditions are 'too much' or 'too hard' are grounds for concern and must send a warning signal to perspective clubs wanting to pick Cousins up in the draft. If he assures those clubs he is now clean and intends to remain clean he should have no objection to the on going drug conditions, regardless of the fact there are 6 players out there on two strikes.

As I have stated before there are too many concerns and unanswered questions on Cousins. As highlighted below in the article by Caroline Wilson provided by RR.

You might want to read Caro Wilson article.......

http://www.realfooty.com.au/articles/2008/...7491548054.html

There really isn't any upside IMO

Not for any side by all reports.

I'm with you 45hotgod, I can't see much upside in recruiting Benjamin, not if our goal is to build up a premiership list as opposed to a brief glimmer of competitiveness.

Indeed.

edit: - Personally & sadly, I think Ben is NQR. He is living a sheltered life, he's not facing the media and letting Nixon do his talking for him. Failure to provide a hair sample for testing is a clear indication that things are not right. This 30yo former football star needs to get his life back on track and dis-associate himself from the people or acquaintances currently surrounding him. Confessing that he has been a drug addict for now 10 years - as Brisbane found out - should be news to every team that is contemplating recruiting Cousins is a serious risk. Collingwood had serious concerns after investigating, now St.Kilda. IMO he is living a life of denial and unbelievably has managed to evade drug testers. I think its time his family surrounds him and gets the help he needs, before its too late.

[deanox 9,915]

...

RE match day use,

these drugs are illegal on match day, always have been and any player who tested positive on match day would have been suspended.

the 3 strikes policy only applies to these drugs when testing positive out of competition, as they are not prescribed illegal when out of competition by WADA (although they are according to australian law).

i think the issue re drug use is that, if used only on match days as a psych up, aggressive increasing drug it would be an issue. but abuse drugs like speed, amphets or ice on a regular basis (ie an addiction) would not increase an athletes performance. one example is it would prevent sleep, disabling recovery. it prevents normal people to function, let alone people to function as elite sportsmen.

habitual use out of competition would only hamper training, preparation and recovery. i am not saying that i condone this behaviour but thought that needed to be said.

[_becks_ 35]

Dappa, I actually agree with you on a few levels. However, in my post i was more refering to the ignorant comments such as, "dont fel sorry for any drug addict" and to "condem him for having to recover int eh first place". The funny thing about footballers is the fact that they are human like the rest of us. To condem someone for making a poor life choice is incredibly ignorant, and these types of comments could only come from someone who is sheltered and uneducated, among oher things

I'll second that.

[e25 5]

I'll second that.

third

[Dappa Dan 2,188]

Dappa, I actually agree with you on a few levels. However, in my post i was more refering to the ignorant comments such as, "dont fel sorry for any drug addict" and to "condem him for having to recover int eh first place". The funny thing about footballers is the fact that they are human like the rest of us. To condem someone for making a poor life choice is incredibly ignorant, and these types of comments could only come from someone who is sheltered and uneducated, among oher things

Hmmm. Fair enough. There's no reason to condemn him... But I guess this is just a footy forum. Ben has left himself open to some criticism... It's not like people are telling him to rot in hell, go away and die...

Like I said, as long as he takes his attitude towards drugs, (which isn't quite reformed, IMO) away from the game and back into seedy nightclubs, I'm happy. There's a place for self-destruction... the AFL isn't it.

I think SEN has fed the debate in the sense that, as with ALL footy issues, fans hate it when people sit on the fence. EVERYONE has to have an opinion, and unfortunately that opinion seems to have to be all the way to one extreme or another. An it's up on their soap-boxes that the air gets a bit thin an they start thinking a bit closed-mindedly.

When they come on and claim that Ben is being given a raw deal, and that there are other players on two strikes who don't have any restrictions... what kind of crap is that? Perhaps those guys should be punished... yes... but just because they're NOT, doesn't mean Ben shouldn't be either.

[Jaded No More 68,915]

I know for a fact that both St.Kilda and Brisbane were pressure by their sponsors not to draft Cousins.

The Lions could still go ahead and take him, but one of their main sponsors will not be happy if this happens. There are way too many factors in play here, and as good as Cousins is/was, he is seen as too much trouble by most clubs.

[Satan 2,871]

brissie are not going to draft him now or in pre season

Lions crush Cousins' hopes of comeback

The Sunday Times

November 28, 2008 07:48pm

Text size

+ -DISGRACED West Coast Eagles champion Ben Cousins' hopes of resurrecting his AFL career appear all but over.

The Brisbane Lions last night officially withdrew all interest in recruiting the 2005 Brownlow Medallist, PerhtNow report.

Brisbane officials met for more than an hour in their Melbourne hotel on Friday afternoon preparing for Saturday's AFL National Draft and emerged with their bombshell blow to Cousins.

Lions football operations manager Graeme Allan confirmed his club's decision, but would make not further comment.

"We're out of the race for Cousins," Allan said.

Allan and new Lions coach Michael Voss and their entire football recruitment department were involved in what was reported as an intense meeting and final decision not to pursue their endeavours to recruit the 30-year-old Cousins.

Only early this week the Lions ruled out taking Cousins as a draft pick, but left open the door for him to join Brisbane through next month's pre-season draft.

To read more go to PerthNow

possibly opens door for others?

[Hards 2]

Changed my mind in the last few days, I think we should grab him in the Pre-season draft.

Weigh up the positives and negatives:

Positives

- Will instantly be the best trainer at the club and raise the bar for off-field preperation for our younger players

- The added presence of drug testers will act as a greater deterent for our players, and he'll be first hand experience of what can happen if you go down the wrong path

- Adds instant exposure to a club desperately needing it

- He's a bloody good footballer, and for 3-4 years he'll add massively to our midfield

Negatives

- Sponsors? (FTR I don't buy this - Jeldwyn want to get out of St.Kilda, and wanted to use Cousins as the excuse; and Devine Homes, a 2nd tier sponsor for Brisbane have said they didn't have a problem with him)

- Doesn't fit our "youth" plan

- If something does go wrong with him.........

To me the positives outweigh the negatives, but it would take an awfully courageous decision to pick him.

I don't think we'll do it, but I think we should.

[Guest unstable punt]

And the BEST case scenario is we recruit a 30-year old who is able to give us a couple of years of decent but declining footy, helping us to possibly win 6-7 matches instead of 4-5 each year before retiring, whilst taking up the spot of a youngster who potentially could have helped our club for a longer period of time.

There really isn't any upside IMO

disagree, Cousins is known for his training and commitment to the game, he would be a great role model for all our young blokes coming through if he stays clean and IMO he will. I work in D&A and the way this guy has been made into a pariah is disgraceful, its obvious that no-one in the AFL or any of the clubs actually knows about addiction and haven't bothered to find out about it.

[45HG 1,539]

I don't believe I mentioned his addiction once in my best case scenario, that best case includes that he is completely clean and "over" his addiction, which I don't think he really ever will be.

Basically, he may be a good trainer but I have faith in the team that they will be able to raise the bar on their own, enough faith in the coaches that they will bring it out of the players.

The upside of Cousins playing is he will have 3-4 years. That's not long enough IMO for where we are at now

[Guest unstable punt]

I don't believe I mentioned his addiction once in my best case scenario, that best case includes that he is completely clean and "over" his addiction, which I don't think he really ever will be.

Basically, he may be a good trainer but I have faith in the team that they will be able to raise the bar on their own, enough faith in the coaches that they will bring it out of the players.

The upside of Cousins playing is he will have 3-4 years. That's not long enough IMO for where we are at now

its enough time to teach the young players about what commitment and hard training will do for your career and club, anyway l think we will be looking pretty good in 3 years

[45HG 1,539]

and only Ben Cousins knows how to do that?

[Guest unstable punt]

and only Ben Cousins knows how to do that?

he is well known as the best trainer and can teach a lot of blokes e.g. Sylvia, Newton etc about commitment to fitness and training, okay he played hard off the field as a lot of blokes do, his problem is he is an addict so couldn't stop when he had too, he has now though and needs to be given a chance

[45HG 1,539]

Again, I'm not saying he should be ignored because of his addiction, but I don't see how a 30 year old player who has missed two years of footy can teach these things, and not one other person around the club can do it.

Why can't this training come frm within the player group, pushed by our current leaders of which we seem to have recruited numerous amounts.

[SJX 6]

Again, I'm not saying he should be ignored because of his addiction, but I don't see how a 30 year old player who has missed two years of footy can teach these things, and not one other person around the club can do it.

Why can't this training come frm within the player group, pushed by our current leaders of which we seem to have recruited numerous amounts.

Not to mention the weasel that is Ricky Nixon!

[Wizza 170]

I can understand that a lot of people would not want Ben at the club due to obvious reasons already posted however im a little concerned about what will happen to him if he doesn't get picked up. If the man is unable to get back into the footy world he will surely re-lapse in my opinion. I dont think it would be such a bad idea to offer him some kind of other role within the footy club other than player, it still sends the message across that there is a punishment for his actions however i still feel the only way to help is recovery is to keep him in footy circles. If he still says no then he his a lost cause

[H_T 3,047]

As far as I'm concerned, some other club can help him out. We have West now. I wouldn't want him liasing with any of the Melbourne players. Great player in his day. Its a shame its come to this. He's had 12 months to get himself right and turn himself upside down. 16 clubs ignored him in the draft, his time is up.

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

As far as I'm concerned, some other club can help him out. We have West now. I wouldn't want him liasing with any of the Melbourne players. Great player in his day. Its a shame its come to this. He's had 12 months to get himself right and turn himself upside down. 16 clubs ignored him in the draft, his time is up.

Agree. We are already a financial basket case and some are asking the Club to be a charity as well!!

Whatever Benny does now is his business and his responsibility.......and certainly not ours.

[Dappa Dan 2,188]

Another superannuation case? Aren't we past picking up other clubs' junk?

[donny williams no 25 0]

disagree, Cousins is known for his training and commitment to the game, he would be a great role model for all our young blokes coming through if he stays clean and IMO he will. I work in D&A and the way this guy has been made into a pariah is disgraceful, its obvious that no-one in the AFL or any of the clubs actually knows about addiction and haven't bothered to find out about it.

I agree with this and I'm surprised no-one appears to have mentioned another point.

In my opinion the possibility of joining Cousins to a Jim Stynes lead club is realistic and very worthwhile. If any leader can help this talented but disgraced player it's Jim S.

Since this issue first surfaced many matters have changed. He's no longer an expensive buy. We could have had him at no74 in the draft, and it seems, for very little money.

What impresses me about this possibility is the on-field leadership he could give in the middle of the ground. We haven't had it for years. Neitz was a great leader but full forwards are in a hopeless position as captains if the game turns nasty. Cousins , in a season, could teach our on-ballers so many football 'smarts" they're not otherwise going to learn.

And I agree--he's the hardest trainer in the competition. What would we give to see Colin Sylvia [as an example] bust a gut the way Cousins does.

All of this is predicated on the club being satisfied that he is clean. If he's going to undertake the regime required by the AFL, then in my view he's likely to be ok.

Finally, he deserves a chance. He hasn't murdered anyone or even assaulted someone has he?I'm amazed that some are so sanctimonious about cocaine when as Dr Alex Wodak from Sydney repeatedly points out, alcohol is by far the most damaging drug for Australians. We're content that players can get blind drunk, and smash people up--he deserves a go and with Jimmy at the helm we're the best club to offer it

[Dappa Dan 2,188]

I agree with this and I'm surprised no-one appears to have mentioned another point.

In my opinion the possibility of joining Cousins to a Jim Stynes lead club is realistic and very worthwhile. If any leader can help this talented but disgraced player it's Jim S.

Since this issue first surfaced many matters have changed. He's no longer an expensive buy. We could have had him at no74 in the draft, and it seems, for very little money.

What impresses me about this possibility is the on-field leadership he could give in the middle of the ground. We haven't had it for years. Neitz was a great leader but full forwards are in a hopeless position as captains if the game turns nasty. Cousins , in a season, could teach our on-ballers so many football 'smarts" they're not otherwise going to learn.

And I agree--he's the hardest trainer in the competition. What would we give to see Colin Sylvia [as an example] bust a gut the way Cousins does.

All of this is predicated on the club being satisfied that he is clean. If he's going to undertake the regime required by the AFL, then in my view he's likely to be ok.

Finally, he deserves a chance. He hasn't murdered anyone or even assaulted someone has he?I'm amazed that some are so sanctimonious about cocaine when as Dr Alex Wodak from Sydney repeatedly points out, alcohol is by far the most damaging drug for Australians. We're content that players can get blind drunk, and smash people up--he deserves a go and with Jimmy at the helm we're the best club to offer it

We don't have the resources or clout to protect him from the media, we don't have the team to offer him a chance to get to finals again, we'd win a few more matches thus weakening our position in the draft, and just because SOME people are in a forgiving mood in regards to his condition doesn't mean they're right. How can SO MANY PEOPLE just make this enormous assumption that the guy will come back and be a saint?!!!! (not a saints player) He could come in and spend two years showing the kids how to train hard, and it's equally as likely that a bunch of 17 year olds will turn around and follow in his footsteps in more ways than one!!!! How could any regular footy fan be so sure that the guy will be clean, unaffected by drugs, and against them COMPLETELY.

I don't know about you guys, but I don't want drugs, or the reputation of drugs anywhere near my club. I'm not stupid enough to think that it doesn't go on, or hasn't in the past, but I'm not about to condone the recruiting of a player that has a history with it and has shown little if any genuine remorse about his drug related past. MFC is in a precarious position and needs, more than at any time in its history to make every step it can towards a flag, lest we fall away again and become even closer to relocation or merger. The Collingwoods, and Essendons of this world can take these risks and wear the damage if there is any, but not us.

And don't give me this wishy/washy addiction malarkey... No offence, but I don't care if it IS a sickness... He can go and be sick somewhere else. I don't wish him any harm, and hope he gets better and sets about repairing the damage he's done to his reputation AND the delicate fabric that is Aussie Rules footy, but I have to be honest I'm not about to put the guy ahead of MFC... It's as simple as that.

Recruiting a 30 yr old to a club that is nowhere near a flag, full of impressionable kids... Jesus I worry about MFC fans sometimes.