Dean Bailey's Plan for The MFC

[angryfijian 25]

Dean Bailey under very adverse conditions has handled the media like a Premiership winning ten year coach - he has been honest, transparent, delivered on his promises and dropped a witty dry line when needed.

If he coaches half as well as he handles the media he will be next Paul Roos - Roosy charmed the media before moulding the Swans into the TEAM that they are - self belief and cool in a crisis - flows from the top!

Ladies and gentlemen, buckle in your seatbelts - MFC is about to be Bailtised!!!

[grazman 6,501]

Ladies and gentlemen, buckle in your seatbelts - MFC is about to be Bailtised!!!

If I knew exactly what that was, I'd get excited... it is something to be excited about isn't it?

[angryfijian 25]

its a play on Baptised - new beginning - being converted to new faith.

[Swampfox 190]

I scoffed at Mike Sheahan who when asked to rate the new coaches didnt offer any comment on Bailey at all

Never been a fan of his anyway and laugh everytime i see his top 50 as if he thinks the annoucement stops the earth from turning

Its far too early to see whether Bailey is a good game day stategist due to our poor skill level at present

Bailey to me has a touch of Northey and Balme about him and to me thats promising for our teams future

Northey was a players man was extremely unlucky not be have more success although he was never media savvy or high profile coach (probably why the swans sacked him)

Balme was ice cool and a calculating thinker and also unlucky not to have more success (his player management skills at Collingwood and Geelong are proof enough of his worth)

Both Northey and Balme played with Richmond under Hafey

Bailey played under Sheedy and he was also associated with Richmond and Hafey before the Essendon Job in 1981

The US against THEM attitude of the Richmond sides of the late 60's - early 80's under hafey was impressive

The Carlton and Richmond sides during those days were like Melbourne and Collingwood during the 50,s

Every new coach that comes along does bring hope but this time i am really impressed by the way Bailey is doing his job

His no compromise style is what is needed to rebuild team focussed footballers who are on the same page

By playing a developing team of players week in week out then we as supporters will see the worth of Bailey , his game plan and the implementation of game day changes

and strategies

He is against the quick fix solution and thats good news

I havent felt this way since 1964 and that includes the return of the messiah (Barrassi)

[demonfanjezza 1]

Spot on sylvinator

I like what DB is going as well

[pitmaster 3,064]

Bailey to me has a touch of Northey and Balme about him and to me thats promising for our teams future

The Northey link I like. He got everything possible out of his teams and gave the MFC its self respect back. A true Demon hero.

Balme, however, was lazy and had one lucky season and that was it. It's no surprise he has not coached again.

I like Bailey's message and the dropping of White speaks loudly too. Just remember that Neale talked like this at the start too, then he got his favourites.

Hope the leadership changes mean Bailey might not fall for the same trap.

[Rogue 585]

I would think they would have been some of the messages Bailey would have be communicated from day 1 in the job.

Yes - nothing new or surprising from where I sit.

PS. Not to say it isn't good to hear - I'm supportive of the tack we're taking.

[mo64 5,209]

its a play on Baptised - new beginning - being converted to new faith.

And what happens if our playing list is full of atheists?

[Swampfox 190]

And what happens if our playing list is full of atheists?

well being demons i think you may be right

[Jarka 767]

I scoffed at Mike Sheahan who when asked to rate the new coaches didnt offer any comment on Bailey at all...

Swamp, I agree with pretty much everything you said and I created a thread about it recently. I'm so impressed with what Bailey is trying to achieve and it's a great change to the sameness that the club experienced over the last 6 or 7 years.

I understand that it will take time and I'm now happy to wait.

[Deeoldfart 7,785]

I'll have a go at this. Let's see what you think.

WE have all recognised for some time the 'culture' issues at the club.

Culture issues are hard to define from such a distance, but they include things like application to training and play, sense of mutual responsibility etc.

Changing this needs to start from within the entire group.

The group can elect leaders and see whether their decisions were any good when compared to their criteria...they may then change their criteria to better reflect the values about the group they wish to emphasise.

This means that the leaders would probably change.

The playing group needs to learn to hold everyone accountable - themselves and their leaders. This may take several goes.

Bailey has encouraged the group to take this responsibility and the group to modify it...with the goal being that the group holds performance standards that everyone wants to keep and the leaders would exemplify it.

We've not done it well, but Bailey is trying to help to get the group to in effect regulate itself in this regard - like the swans I guess. So, he can influence it but only a bit.

No mistake this year - part of a process that may take some time but is aimed at a pretty thorough culture shift.

EXACTLY!!!

[timD 994]

EXACTLY!!!

I hope so DOF. It is hard to say from this distance from the club. We've all heard that leading teams is now involved with teh Dee's and I've heard a bit about them through the media...so it is a guess but relatively informed. THe good bit is that it gives room to stuff up and learn, which is how most of us do it - but at a group level. I just hope to christ that it works.

[deanox 8,669]

well being demons i think you may be right

you would assume that demons a satans minnions which would mean that they must acknowledge that god exists even if they dont follow him. satan worshippers believe in god, they just believe that this world is more important than the next (or a variation on this theme such as there is no next world, or that god is really trying to trick people into wasting their lives etc if they believe in the antichrist they must also believe in the christ)...

[Roost It 1,434]

Slightly off the point:

I reckon DB will pick Jack Watts over Natanui.

From what I can find out about Watts he's a footballer and a leader.

If we can organise something for Warnock then a CHF might just be the best fit for us at the moment.

I've heard all the reviews about Natanui but he comes without the real footy smarts and I think that's what we need, hence Watts.

Imagine a gun CHF staightening us up and allowing Bate, Miller, Sylvia,Wona, Davey to back him up. Dudes, I'm excited. The jigsaw may be closer to complete than we realise!

[beelzebub 22,229]

Bailey likes talent and likes to nurture and grow it.. It'll be Naita if we're their to take him

How many leaders do you need.. ?? all chiefs..no indians ??

[Roost It 1,434]

Bailey likes talent and likes to nurture and grow it.. It'll be Naita if we're their to take him

How many leaders do you need.. ?? all chiefs..no indians ??

Just quietly BB59 we're not sitting on an abundance of quality leaders down at the club.

I'm talking captains of the ilk of Flower, Lyon, Neitz.

If we're all chiefs I think the standard has come back too far.

With Watts I'm talking real, ingrown footy smarts and it sounds like he has them. NN - Not so sure.

[mo64 5,209]

Bailey likes talent and likes to nurture and grow it.. It'll be Naita if we're their to take him

How many leaders do you need.. ?? all chiefs..no indians ??

Very good point Bub. Give me a great footballer with no obvious leadership skills, than a leader with average football skills.

Two years ago the Cats were accused of lacking leadership. Perecptions can change very quickly when you're winning games.

[Roost It 1,434]

Very good point Bub. Give me a great footballer with no obvious leadership skills, than a leader with average football skills.

Two years ago the Cats were accused of lacking leadership. Perecptions can change very quickly when you're winning games.

Are you saying NN's better than Watts and that Watts is average?

Maybe you can fill in the names of all our leaders

[Jarka 767]

I'll have a go at this. Let's see what you think.

WE have all recognised for some time the 'culture' issues at the club.

Culture issues are hard to define from such a distance, but they include things like application to training and play, sense of mutual responsibility etc.

Changing this needs to start from within the entire group.

The group can elect leaders and see whether their decisions were any good when compared to their criteria...they may then change their criteria to better reflect the values about the group they wish to emphasise.

This means that the leaders would probably change.

The playing group needs to learn to hold everyone accountable - themselves and their leaders. This may take several goes.

Bailey has encouraged the group to take this responsibility and the group to modify it...with the goal being that the group holds performance standards that everyone wants to keep and the leaders would exemplify it.

We've not done it well, but Bailey is trying to help to get the group to in effect regulate itself in this regard - like the swans I guess. So, he can influence it but only a bit.

No mistake this year - part of a process that may take some time but is aimed at a pretty thorough culture shift.

The other view is that the leadership choice should never be made by the playing group, and there are several reasons to back this opinion up.

The players aren't always in the best position to make valued decisions, they don't always have all the information on hand. This year is a good example, others have already pointed at the fact that we had a fair turn over on the list and it would take time for the 'newbies' to work out the real leadership qualities amongst their peers (Green) and not just to choose the high profile bloke (Yze). Sure after halfway through the season they might get it right but at the end of the season we'll probably have just as many leave as last year, so the same thing will happen. It didn't really matter if we got the leadership group wrong this year because we'll finish last but it's a pretty important factor of a footy team's makeup, the club cant afford to go through half a season of 'development' from the newbies.

Unfortunately a high turn over of the list is the norm for an AFL team, it's just not practical to go through that learning process every year.

The 'changing the culture' line of reasoning is a completely seperate issue to choosing the leadership group, from what I've seen bailey has been doing pretty much everything right since the pre-season in regards to that issue, it's clear that he got the leadership one wrong because there were changes made to it halfway through the season. Bailey is good (imo), he's doign alot to change the culture of the club but he got this one wrong.

[Jarka 767]

Very good point Bub. Give me a great footballer with no obvious leadership skills, than a leader with average football skills.

Two years ago the Cats were accused of lacking leadership. Perecptions can change very quickly when you're winning games.

The cats have been up for a fair amoutn of years, they had one recent 'down' year where they were fine tuning the list, and were lucky to pick up Selwood with pick 7 (from memory), but they've been a pretty good team for awhile.

[timD 994]

The other view is that the leadership choice should never be made by the playing group, and there are several reasons to back this opinion up.

The players aren't always in the best position to make valued decisions, they don't always have all the information on hand. This year is a good example, others have already pointed at the fact that we had a fair turn over on the list and it would take time for the 'newbies' to work out the real leadership qualities amongst their peers (Green) and not just to choose the high profile bloke (Yze). Sure after halfway through the season they might get it right but at the end of the season we'll probably have just as many leave as last year, so the same thing will happen. It didn't really matter if we got the leadership group wrong this year because we'll finish last but it's a pretty important factor of a footy team's makeup, the club cant afford to go through half a season of 'development' from the newbies.

Unfortunately a high turn over of the list is the norm for an AFL team, it's just not practical to go through that learning process every year.

The 'changing the culture' line of reasoning is a completely seperate issue to choosing the leadership group, from what I've seen bailey has been doing pretty much everything right since the pre-season in regards to that issue, it's clear that he got the leadership one wrong because there were changes made to it halfway through the season. Bailey is good (imo), he's doign alot to change the culture of the club but he got this one wrong.

The changing culture line would be to do with most facets of the playing group's behaviour, Jarka. What do you think culture refers to - the player's choice of sunday movie? Clearly you do not understand what I mean by culture, nor do you see it as important. Whatever. All I could suggest is that the Swans have emphasised culture over just about everything and maybe that's a good idea. The playing group has a say but not in isolation. Probably a reasonable compromise. If that doesn't convince you that it is worth doing the way it is being done, and that there has been no error, well good for you.

And cut the rhetorical crap - As if the entire available playing group will disappear in the blink of an eye. As if players have NO information to base a decision. As if players should have NO say. About 75% of the list stays around Jarka, year by year. Are you really suggesting that the remaining players have their memories wiped and cannot make informed choices nor assist the new players make theirs? As if newbies will run the club...happy for them to develop their skills but not their sense of responsibility? Culture means what? performance but not leadership...?

Argue without the rhetoric - it is shallow rubbish and creates arguments over mindless details without substance. You should know I have no patience for it.

[demon3165 1,976]

The other view is that the leadership choice should never be made by the playing group, and there are several reasons to back this opinion up.

The players aren't always in the best position to make valued decisions, they don't always have all the information on hand. This year is a good example, others have already pointed at the fact that we had a fair turn over on the list and it would take time for the 'newbies' to work out the real leadership qualities amongst their peers (Green) and not just to choose the high profile bloke (Yze). Sure after halfway through the season they might get it right but at the end of the season we'll probably have just as many leave as last year, so the same thing will happen. It didn't really matter if we got the leadership group wrong this year because we'll finish last but it's a pretty important factor of a footy team's makeup, the club cant afford to go through half a season of 'development' from the newbies.

Unfortunately a high turn over of the list is the norm for an AFL team, it's just not practical to go through that learning process every year.

The 'changing the culture' line of reasoning is a completely seperate issue to choosing the leadership group, from what I've seen bailey has been doing pretty much everything right since the pre-season in regards to that issue, it's clear that he got the leadership one wrong because there were changes made to it halfway through the season. Bailey is good (imo), he's doign alot to change the culture of the club but he got this one wrong.

Lets take the other option, Bailey lets them have their heads to select who they want and as time goes by with his vision and future path they change the culture and views on how we do things, as an old saying goes "to change a culture you have have to show them a culture" this is what I think he is trying to do.

[mo64 5,209]

The cats have been up for a fair amoutn of years, they had one recent 'down' year where they were fine tuning the list, and were lucky to pick up Selwood with pick 7 (from memory), but they've been a pretty good team for awhile.

That's my point Jarka. The issue of leadership is superfluous if you haven't got the talent. The Cat's talent eventually shone through.

Premiership sides are littered with ratbags. Hell, Martin Pike won 4 of them without being a model citizen off the field.

[beelzebub 22,229]

Not everyone is cut out for leadership, nor needs to exude it. I'd be happy with more than a dozen very good footballers with a couple showing the way. As long as someone is reading the Melways we'll get there !!

[Jarka 767]

The changing culture line would be to do with most facets of the playing group's behaviour, Jarka.

Yeah, I agree

What do you think culture refers to - the player's choice of sunday movie? Clearly you do not understand what I mean by culture, nor do you see it as important. Whatever.

Show me where I suggested anything resembling that I think culture is irrelevant at all? I have been saying that we need a change of culture within the club for several years, I'm surprised that you haven't picked that up.

Don't make things in a debate to try to justify your argument, it's poor form and only reflects poorly on yourself.

All I could suggest is that the Swans have emphasised culture over just about everything and maybe that's a good idea. The playing group has a say but not in isolation. Probably a reasonable compromise. If that doesn't convince you that it is worth doing the way it is being done, and that there has been no error, well good for you.

Compromise is ok, well done discussing the topic, I knew you had it in you.