Is Bailey a good coach?

[Hannabal 4]

Can you clarify rubberchest?

Neitz

[H_T 2,941]

Neitz

Ah, yes. I see. He's a legend.

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

I always miss your point

I have come to expect that.

[mo64 5,209]

I agree It's a Nightmare......and if I didn't it would be to early to tell anyway.

One things for sure when you stack up our list against Fremantle's and West Coast's....hell even Port Adelaide (last years Grand Finalists), it puts their coaches in the spotlight! What do you say to that mo64?

Harvey - 1st full year as coach like Bailey

Worsfold - Premiership coach, 2 GFs

Williams - Premiership coach, 2 GF's

I'd be rapt if Bailey finishes with either Worsfold or Williams coaching record.

[maximum bob 462]

Interesting view on the style of footy he's instilling Hards. Care to expand?

I'll admit to some ignorance on exactly what the style is apart from accountable footy and experimenting with the current list.

What is it about DB's plan that has teams routinely beaten in Finals?

I know old school, what the hell is new school?

Still interested in your view. Anytime you want to elaborate.

[mordja 187]

FWIW I'm dead set stoked with Bailey so far.

He has delivered what he promise, the "playing the favorites" side selection is gone, the kids are looking good and backing themselves.

Garland, Warnock, CJ, Morton and Wona are all moving ahead (that cant necessarily be put down to DB but he has certainly told them that he is backing them).

Although way too early to tell, as long as he keeps delivering on what he has promised Im more than happy with how it is developing.

Ive been lucky enough to chat with him on two occasions in the last two months and to anyone that indicates he is a fool or says things without due consideration I think this is completely incorrect. His answers actually struck me as particularly considered, thoughtful and more importantly not full of p!ss and hot wind. I think you will find in time that he is a perfectly good figurehead for the media.

Anyway, thats the POV from this content supporter so far. DB has my vote.

[Dannyz 2,332]

FWIW I'm dead set stoked with Bailey so far.

He has delivered what he promise, the "playing the favorites" side selection is gone, the kids are looking good and backing themselves.

Garland, Warnock, CJ, Morton and Wona are all moving ahead (that cant necessarily be put down to DB but he has certainly told them that he is backing them).

Although way too early to tell, as long as he keeps delivering on what he has promised Im more than happy with how it is developing.

Ive been lucky enough to chat with him on two occasions in the last two months and to anyone that indicates he is a fool or says things without due consideration I think this is completely incorrect. His answers actually struck me as particularly considered, thoughtful and more importantly not full of p!ss and hot wind. I think you will find in time that he is a perfectly good figurehead for the media.

Anyway, thats the POV from this content supporter so far. DB has my vote.

Great post mate. My thoughts exactly.

The future looks bright with Dean at the helm.

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

One things for sure when you stack up our list against Fremantle's and West Coast's....hell even Port Adelaide (last years Grand Finalists), it puts their coaches in the spotlight!

At this point in time.

Freo have not touched the bottom yet and are a disaster. Harvey has been on the Fremantle coaching panel since 2006. He was made senior coach almost one year ago. His fingerprints are all over their playing list one of the oldest in the AFL. He help developed it and he has dramatically underperformed with it. His position is alot different to Bailey's given the relative state of the lists. Harvey's position is in jeopardy at Freo.

Williams did well to get his side back to a GF so soon after a flag. They were ahead of themselves last year, their youth is struggling and some of their senior players like Tredrea and Lade are shadows of themselves. More changes a plenty there as they take stock of where they are at..

Worsfold has trouble on his hands. The fallout from the disintegration of culture at the Club and the loss of two players who could have finished their careers as Club greatest players and leaders is in tatters. Worsfold knew of and was expedient allowing Cousins behaviour to continue up to the booze bus incident. He is culpable and his vision is shattered. I would expect a clean out this year as they search for the lowest point.

[maximum bob 462]

As Hards is incommunicado at the moment Rhino I'll post a trifle.

Is that a young Percy Beames you have as your avatar?

[Straight Sets Simon 23,113]

And Rhino's post is an emotional rant because the whole premise of his argument is that Daniher, as a coach and list manager, was the devil incarnate. He seems to forget that Daniher took over an ageing underperforming list, and took them to a prelim in his 1st year, and a GF in his 3rd.

Quite the contrary.

Rhino was always a Daniher fan along with Old and the rest of the conservative lot.

It was people like myself who opposed Daniher, even when Melbourne were winning because we could see his negative mind-set and tactics were beginning to creep in. This of course lead to the introduction of "runs and curry" in '06 that ultimately cost Daniher his job.

Is Bailey a good coach?

Come back in two years time.

[Jarka 767]

Quite the contrary.

Rhino was always a Daniher fan along with Old and the rest of the conservative lot.

It was people like myself who opposed Daniher, even when Melbourne were winning because we could see his negative mind-set and tactics were beginning to creep in. This of course lead to the introduction of "runs and curry" in '06 that ultimately cost Daniher his job.

Is Bailey a good coach?

Come back in two years time.

Spot on CB, I remember the ding dong arguments we had with them, even as recently as last season.

[Straight Sets Simon 23,113]

Spot on CB, I remember the ding dong arguments we had with them, even as recently as last season.

Those were the days...

[Guest fatty]

Quite the contrary.

Rhino was always a Daniher fan along with Old and the rest of the conservative lot.

It was people like myself who opposed Daniher, even when Melbourne were winning because we could see his negative mind-set and tactics were beginning to creep in. This of course lead to the introduction of "runs and curry" in '06 that ultimately cost Daniher his job.

Is Bailey a good coach?

Come back in two years time.

Got a smile out of me.

I think you're half-right on Rhino etc. In my opinion, what "his mob" tend to do is analyse what Daniher et al were trying to do, form a consensus and then run with it. Nothing wrong with that. But next, they'd try and explain it to the dumbfolk (like me) whenever it was questioned. Continuing to challenge the "consensus" generally meant that you were dumb or knew nothing about the game.

To be honest, I sat well and truly on the fence in this debate as I believed ND had to do something and it proved to be wrong.

I thought you were okay with Daniher and his attacking gameplan until the changes came in 2007 when he turned to the slimdown, gutrunning, run&carry, blah, blah, blah.........approach. I don't mind if you challenge the statement - I'm not willing to research your posting history.

Regarding Bailey, I agree. The above conversation is quite ridiculous given he's coached 14 senior games with a list that is currently rank. Its alarming that anyone would choose to fame/flame him right now. Other comments that "he might be getting better" is laughable. He's a rookie coach, FCS.

As it stands, the MFC will lose more games than they win over the coming years. I suspect, by that time, some people will be baying for blood.

[Swampfox 190]

Spot on Mono with everything you've written.

As for Bailey's calmness in the box, it's easy to be calm when there's no expectations of winning. And IMO, his apparent calmness doesn't prove anything. It's the coach's game strategies and how the players are performing, that really matter.

Personally, I don't believe that Bailey has coached well to date, but as long as he's prepared to learn and adjust, he should be given the chance with at least 2 years in the job.

I think everyone knows your stance on Bailey isnt good

seems like you place all your assesment on ladder position

but its good that you at least acknowledge he needs at least 2 years

I look forward to what you have to say then

[Jarka 767]

Got a smile out of me.

I think you're half-right on Rhino etc. In my opinion, what "his mob" tend to do is analyse what Daniher et al were trying to do, form a consensus and then run with it. Nothing wrong with that. But next, they'd try and explain it to the dumbfolk (like me) whenever it was questioned. Continuing to challenge the "consensus" generally meant that you were dumb or knew nothing about the game.

To be honest, I sat well and truly on the fence in this debate as I believed ND had to do something and it proved to be wrong.

I thought you were okay with Daniher and his attacking gameplan until the changes came in 2007 when he turned to the slimdown, gutrunning, run&carry, blah, blah, blah.........approach. I don't mind if you challenge the statement - I'm not willing to research your posting history.

Regarding Bailey, I agree. The above conversation is quite ridiculous given he's coached 14 senior games with a list that is currently rank. Its alarming that anyone would choose to fame/flame him right now. Other comments that "he might be getting better" is laughable. He's a rookie coach, FCS.

As it stands, the MFC will lose more games than they win over the coming years. I suspect, by that time, some people will be baying for blood.

Good post fatty.

With respects to what we'll achieve over the next couple of seasons, I think we'll have more of a clean out of our mature players at the end of the year. Anyone over 28 at the end of the year who retains their spot on the list will considered to be lucky, very lucky, and I can see us continue to develop the yopunger guys next year as well.

Guys like Martin, Grimes, Maric, Cheney, McNamara and the new draftees will all get decent game time, we'll have less depth due to the cuts so it wouldn't surprise me if we finished with below 5 wins or thereabouts. Mind you I wouldn't be overly concerned because I see these couple of years as a transitional phase and extremely important for our future. Developing a solid list is the most important aspect, apart from the culture of the club of course(I need to add that point just in case some wacko accuses me of not thinking it's important again...).

I wasn't overly impressed when we signed Bailey, I definitely wasn't a fan at the start, but I can't help but be impressed with the way that he's gone about it this year. I guess it helps that I wasn't expecting to play finals so I don't have that disappointment affecting my judgement.

[Straight Sets Simon 23,113]

EDIT: "Runs and Curry" came in '07, not '06.

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

Quite the contrary.

Rhino was always a Daniher fan along with Old and the rest of the conservative lot.

Thank you. However the support was not blind. I had been publicly questioning list management and leadership/culture for many years and some of those chickens have come home to roost this year.

Is Bailey a good coach?

Come back in two years time.

Any Coach needs two years at least to determine his worth. Given the poor state of the list Bailey has inherited, I think he will need 3 years at least.

EDIT: "Runs and Curry" came in '07, not '06.

Daniher tried to employ it in Round 22 in 2006 against Adelaide at Football Park in SA.

[Nasher 33,131]

I never thought I would see the day where Rhino and Clint would see eye to eye

[mo64 5,209]

I think everyone knows your stance on Bailey isnt good

seems like you place all your assesment on ladder position

but its good that you at least acknowledge he needs at least 2 years

I look forward to what you have to say then

Not entirely true. Our paltry percentage is a truer reflection of how we've played this year. For a vast majority of the season we've been uncompetitive. Ultimately, the coach is responsible for the performance on the ground.

And I don't buy Rhino's argument that Bailey took over a deplorable injury riddled list. At the start of the season, including the preseason, we were playing an obscenely bad brand of football with almost a full list.

I just don't buy the bottoming out argument either. If Bailey truelly wanted to rebuild the list from scratch, Robertson would have been traded. When Clarkson arrived at Hawthorn, his intentions were obvious. He traded senior players en masse. Given the draft concessions that the new clubs will receive in the ensuing years, the opportunity for any club to rebuild from scratch is limited.

Off the field, the club couldn't afford to bottom out this year. A $2m loss awaits us. Our onfield performances have a lot to do with this.

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

Not entirely true. Our paltry percentage is a truer reflection of how we've played this year. For a vast majority of the season we've been uncompetitive. Ultimately, the coach is responsible for the performance on the ground.

And I don't buy Rhino's argument that Bailey took over a deplorable injury riddled list. At the start of the season, including the preseason, we were playing an obscenely bad brand of football with almost a full list.

We finished 14th in 2007 under the guise of two coaches, Daniher and Riley. Only 20 players of a list 42 (43?) were fit and available to start pre season training. Pre season fitness and training was limited and marred by that and injuries that came up. (eg Rivers, McLean and Bruce were barely fit or not fit at the season start)

So if you did not like the brand of football we were playing, come on, answer the question.

What game plan compliments an underskilled, slow list ?

I just don't buy the bottoming out argument either. If Bailey truelly wanted to rebuild the list from scratch, Robertson would have been traded. When Clarkson arrived at Hawthorn, his intentions were obvious. He traded senior players en masse. Given the draft concessions that the new clubs will receive in the ensuing years, the opportunity for any club to rebuild from scratch is limited.

Off the field, the club couldn't afford to bottom out this year. A $2m loss awaits us. Our onfield performances have a lot to do with this.

Bailey does not have a choice about rebuilding. There will be a mass clean out of senior players at the end of this year who have reached their use by date (Neitz, White, Holland, Yze and probably Junior and mabe Whelan). Hawthorn had a similar problem when Clarkson arrived. However he was in the fortunate position to be able to have players to trade (like Hay and Thompson) and he also retired Holland, Barker and Graham. He also got rid of Everett who was a culture sore. I would suggest that Robbo was kept given there was concern about the longevity of Neitz for another year and MFC would not have had a recognised KF forward line. Its to Bailey's credit that he has been able to cobble some promising propects there with both Robbo and Neitz gone.

We struggled to make a profit when we made the finals. We could not afford to have bottomed out last year but we did. I dont think we had a choice. And just because the draft concessions have changed does not mean that there will be Clubs who wont go through the same process. Otherwise you better call Essendon, Freo, WC and StK because they will be doing just that. Our on field performance do affect membership, sponsorship and support. That is why we need to build enduring success and we need to aim to win a premiership. I note that you foolishly dont believe that is important. But after 44 years in the wilderness we need to get real success as the back bone of allowing the Club to financially survive.

[Rogue 585]

And I don't buy Rhino's argument that Bailey took over a deplorable injury riddled list. At the start of the season, including the preseason, we were playing an obscenely bad brand of football with almost a full list.

From memory, we had nothing like a full list when I went down to SS to watch us play Geelong in the NAB Cup.

Considering this has turned into a bit of a discussion about times past:

* I would have been happy to see ND go after 2000. I felt he was almost always very slow in making changes during matches. This is something that's hard to assess with DB, considering we've been so terrible.

* I also felt we were so overrated post-2006 it wasn't funny. A quick look at our list and their age - couple the fact that our more important players were past their prime with the predominance of young and quite inexperienced players in our best 22 - should have given a clear indication that we weren't going to be contenders.