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I may not be as articulate as some posters on this thread but I cannot hold back any longer I have been a supporter of our Club for something like 70 yrs even following them when we played our home games at Punt Rd as the M C G was unavailable during the war years I am appalled by some suggestions that Jim be asked to resign. sacked or to take a pay cut. All this coming from supposed "supporters" of Club I would say that Jim has given his guts and more for our club and to treat him in such disrespect saddens me greatly. Now on Gary .I don`t care whether he was asked ,stuck his bib in or what but he came in our of need,as friends do,to help. Of course the proof of the pudding etc but I firmly believe we have a very good coaching panel led by Mark. As an interstater I love the training notes so keep up the good work boys. God bless Jim and his family

This thread started out congratulating and commending a job well done to Garry Lyon and has turned into a scathing attack and load of accusations about his motives and why won't he commit to the club. Then some of you decide to put the boot into Jimmy and suggest that he should step down or forced off because he is not able to do the job. One poster even suggested that empathy for someone should not come at the price of your values. Apparently you would be lying to yourself and them, but to me that statement only means your lying about the fact you have empathy at all. To me its like premising everything with "No offence but..." Either you feel empathy for some one or you don't. Don't hide your lack of empathy behind misplaced values and what you perceive is best for the club. Furthermore the Chairperson and the role of the chairperson is a figurehead in most ways, The running of the club administratively is run by the CEO and the Football department is now being run by Neil Craig with both area's reporting to the Board as a whole. Jimmy is not a dictator the Chairperson's power and influences stem from the boards support and the rule set out by the Club. Jimmy unwell is still able to assist the club , as Jimmy also has his persona, integrity and the networks he has built and forged in Melbourne both inside and outside of football. These are what he has used in the improvement of the club off field. Kick him out and see what happens to the people Jimmy has influenced in his life. Finally, what value do people think would be displayed by this club if it asked Jimmy to step down? If Jimmy said tomorrow he would step down then so be it, but to suggest we should ask him to step down, that would be a deplorable and cut throat act.

Three days ago I wrote that I thought Garry Lyon had done a wonderful job. On reflection, after reading through this thread one more time, I think I might have underestimated his contribution. I wasn't previously aware, but accept the word of those who claim that in the aftermath of the Geelong game, Lyon convinced the Board that the proper course was to retain Cameron Schwab as CEO and to terminate Dean Bailey's contract as coach. In other words, Garry intervened to put the case for Schwab and against Bailey to the key personnel on the Board on that fateful Sunday after the Geelong game. It's not clear whether or not he was invited to do so but he convinced enough of them to take the tough decisions which, given the accolades now being heaped on Schwab and the almost universal view that Bailey had to go sometime soon, then the outcome has been to the club's benefit notwithstanding that it might have been carried out clumsily and poorly. Such a conclusion will inevitably lead to argument about whether the end is justified by the means and, as we've already seen, the historians and revisionists on this site have already joined in the rush to judgement. Was Lyon entitled to enter into the "inner sanctum" and offer his advice on the coaching position? I think one could mount a strong argument in his favour whether he was invited to do so or not. Lyon is a friend of Stynes, a former captain, club champion who played in excess of 200 games. In 2007, the previous board invited him to take part in the selection process to recommend a new coach after Neale Daniher. On Footy Classified he had expressed the view that he wouldn't relish being involved in such a process again. His views as to whether Bailey had lived up to his expectations would have been relevant and valuable to Board members in their deliberations at a time when the club was in crisis. Some might have a problem with that but I don't - we keep getting reminded that the club deliberately tanked for draft choices and handled the dismissal of a former captain poorly. We even once unceremoniously boned a club president in mid-term who had kicked $2.7m into the club. Compared to that where is the problem with taking advice from a former club icon at a time of crisis? Was the club placed at a disadvantage in doing so? But that's not all. The fact that every man and his dog seems to know that Garry was definitely involved somehow in the process that led to the decisions of 31 July 2011 is a prime example of the insidious process of information being leaked from the board - something that has been systemic at this club since the 60s. The failure to keep things "in house" is generally indicative of an organisation that is run poorly and it doesn't give me much pleasure to say this but over the years we've had many boards and administrations that have been poorly run and some were totally dysfunctional. And guess what? During those 5½ months with Lyon in charge, the decisions taken were, by and large, announced by the club without prior leaks to the media. A number of the appointments caught the media by surprise. Lyon was honest and transparent when questioned by the media but never gave them too much. He said we weren't after Ross Lyon and we weren't but the media continued to speculate. They got most of it wrong. Garry and co got things right. After all this time I consider this to be a breath of fresh air for the club. Garry's livelihood is in the media where he is a bit of a megastar and prime property for the 9 network. Can we begrudge him the right to an income at his time of life when he has three kids and family matters to address? Not everyone's an Eddie McGuire! So I'll say again that we owe a great debt to Garry, Don, Cam and Jimmy for the inspiration behind the last half year. But they're not gods. However, that these guys have achieved so much in such a short time and yet, there are those out there wringing their hands and angry about some perceived injustices which might well be grounded in the fertile imaginations of some mischief makers suggests to me that some of our supporters need to follow the lead of our new coach and the playing group and harden up.

picture the incredulity of all in the football world - and everyone else - if the Melbourne Football Club now chose to sack Jimmy Stynes!! Sure it's a forum, and everyone can have their say - and sure we are curious about how things happened at the time. But going from raking it over to talking as though our president should be measured against a conventional job description seems undignified and shameful. Ignorant too - if that were all he was, we may have already been extinct. Bailey's failure and the Geelong disaster are now water under the bridge, and surely things are going a lot better. Jimmy Stynes is not visibly hindering progress, surely? Isn't tearing up what he has built? The goodwill and inspiration around him is immense, of enormous value to the club. History will stand in awe of what this man has done and still is now. Ask anyone, who has not read this forum. What I agree with is, I can't wait for the footy. We may have tears up ahead, but we needn't have shame with it.

But Neeld doesn't own the previous football department's appointment, so how is it short-sighted for him to remove Green ? He either thinks he's the best man for the job moving forward or he doesn't. This is as much about the future direction of the club as it is about the here and now. The best decisions for the club far outweigh the best decisions for Brad Green. And they may not be mutually exclusive.

I reckon one of the reasons we have been a bottom on of the ladder club for so many years is because we don't make bold decisions and step out of the shadows of other clubs. I asked Cam S last year why we didn't draft Rockliff in 2008 (as he was training with us). I know we picked Jurrah in the PSD but I asked him why we didn't pick him as a late pick in the ND. His answer "well no other club picked him". I for one am sick of this excuse. Lucas Cook may become a good player in a few years time but Darling will probably have 50 games up before Lucas has one. Pick 12 was such an important pick and I wonder whether Barry P would still be at the club if we had picked Darling or even Billy Smedts.

Several issues here including the fact that, despite being committed to the club, he doesn't become a Demon till November, 2012. What about insurance for a player not on your list? Why do it when you can't play him throughout the season?

I can't imagine a NAB cup game would do anything outstanding for Viney's development. I'm glad he gets to play VFL which is just as good as a crappy Nab Challenge game. Let's have a look at the list an pick the best side so we can win round 1.

Who cares what gws does. I sure as hell dont.

Is that right? What he was thinking about Ben Reid when he'd played 8 games is 3 years.

It appears I am one of the few on here who hasn't got a man-crush on Jack Darling. Even as a Weagle, the flame still burns for a lot of MFC supporters. He was a kid who had his growth-spurt early and was able to fill out his body a lot earlier than the competition. That's why he dominated as a kid, looked super impressive in youtube footage and had many supporters begging for him in the draft. Sure he was going to be ready for AFL footy in his next year but that doesn't make him the best available at pick 12. He took Ashley Hansen's spot and looks a bit more effective than Ashley so far but what's to say Darling won't become the next Hansen? He's already filled out and I'm of the opinion he looks as good now as he'll ever look at AFL level. Another Rhys Palmer or Daniel Rich type... impressive first season proceeded by stagnation.

Well said . I often wonder if some fans understand the concept of a Team . Without Jim we are no longer a Team . Most fans of other Clubs have nothing but respect and admiration for Jimmy with regards to the job he has done at our Club . The reality is that our Club is in a far better position since Jim took over . Jim stayes for as long as he wishes .

Club directors, including the president, do not get paid.

In a way, I wouldn't have a problem with Green being reappointed as last year he was as much a victim of poor onfield management (let's not call it coaching) by Bailey as he was of his own poor form. Being stuck in the forward line much of the time really did limit his ability to impose himself as captain and didn't give him an opportunity to play himself back into form. I don't know why, but I get the feeling that Neeld has a lot of respect for Green based as much on his ability as on his reputation...and this may be enough to get his captaincy extended for at least one more season with his likely successor name as vice captain (Trengove or Grimes?). Now to go off topic and say at I am doing my bit for the China incursion by later today delivering a couple of Auskick balls, a pump and an Auskick back pack to my friend's two 5 year old nephews here in Shenzhen as a year of the Dragon/Demon gift :-) I hope to at some point get them to a nearby park for a little kicking/handballing instruction.

Even if he did own the previous appointment, your point would still hold. Making a poor decision in the past shouldn't prevent you from making the right one in the present.

Sometimes you get the right answer for the wrong reasons.

Sometimes I think it would be better if all clubs sacked their recruiting departments and just followed Emma Quayles draft order, it often seems to pan out that way. Think of the money and time that would be saved. It seems in the recruiting circles there is a consensus about how the draft will fall, particularly in the top 20 and this is why Darling was picked up in the 2nd round. I think we have made a few outside of the square decisions in the last draft with Sellar and in the rookie draft with Williams, let's see how we go. I would have loved us to pick Darling, I would have loved us not to pick $ but that's the draft. I think we have a pretty good list that will be enhanced over the next few years with Viney, the compensation picks and some good coaching.

Felix, I talked about empathy and I don't think that there is any conflict. Two states exist and neither should impinge on the other. I feel sympathy for Jim; I seriously question whether he can do the job. I think he has done a hurculean job for the club; I strongly suspect he is a figurehead president who is being carried by the board. I hope they have replaced his functional role. Empathy and sympathy are very different things BTW (they are often used interchangeably too). Empathy is feeling what someone else feels; sympathy is varying states of pity or compassion for another. And if you want to discuss it (and I mean discuss), PM me. It is a hell of a cheek to state that my values are 'misplaced' (what does that mean anyway - sounds meaningless to me) and then to state that I'm hiding them behind a feeling I may or may not have. I made the statements - use my name and if you want to see what I mean, ask. This is very simple in the end. It is evident to everyone that Jimmy's functioning in general is grossly compromised by cancer & its treatment. It is evident that the Board were ineffective at managing the FD/admin issues. Jimmy was responsible for reporting to the board about the FD - a position HE took after Leoncelli left. Then Geelong, no coach etc. It is evident that Jimmy was unable, with his board, to rectify things on their own. Gary came in and WHAM!...we have now. The board got themselves into a stinking mess that they should have seen coming. The man who had the most contact, theoretically, was unable to intervene or adequately inform the board. Jimmy is front-and-centre of that effing mess. Jimmy handed the reigns of fixing it to someone else. This, as a buisness process, as a governance process, is a worry. It is not the end of the world or anything dramatic, but, it falls way short of good practice or effective leadership. What standards do you people want to hold for your club? If he were an aussie cricketer you would want him gone now. If he were PM, your accountant, your GP, your CFO, your stockerbroker, your kids' nanny, your uni lecturer.. Truth is, Felix, that Jimmy's leadership makes people feel good and they (you) use that to justify ignoring failures he is responsible for (not wholly, but in significant part). You justify keeping him on b/c the poor man is dying and he has done great things. Now who is hiding behind what?

The players went out and lost by 186 points which is definitely a unique way to display their loyalty to the coach and how happy they were with him.

Carlton took Jeff Garlett with pick 6 in the same rookie draft. Maybe we should have picked him too?

It's true that Cameron Schwab is the CEO but I think the question about not selecting Rockliff was one that would have been better directed to BBBP himself. I can't answer for him but I imagine that his response would have been along the lines that in order for him to have selected Rockliff we would have had to have forgone either the pick that we used to get Rohan Bail or the PSD selection that ultimately was used to secure Liam Jurrah. The question you have to ask yourself is whether you would be happy to have Rockliff and not one of those two? On Rockliff training with the club, that's true but, from memory he did so after the national draft and before the PSD and rookie drafts. As Rude Boy has pointed out in The Liam Jurrah Story, Liam was a late inclusion on the list of players eligible that year and, in the event, we took him with pick 1 in the PSD. Brisbane then picked up Rockliff with pick 5 in the PSD. Had the Lions looked elsewhere then Rockliff would have been available to us with pick 1 in the Rookie Draft because there was only on PSD pick after Rockliff and that was Richmond which took Ben Cousins. BBBP would then have had the choice of Tom Rockliff or Jordie McKenzie and there's no doubt that whoever he would have chosen there would have been no shortage of people coming along three years later saying that he'd made a monumental blunder and picked the wrong bloke.

And remind me please of the number of games that Billy Smedts has played at this point in time.

The way he plays is great. He's agressive and chases and is physical, but ultimately it's what you do that is more important. If he isn't ever going to be a reliable KPF due to lack of height then he loses value and has to do all the chasing and physical stuff just to play a HFF position.I feel the same way about Watts. The way he kicks the footy and can find space in traffic is very good and could lead to him playing multiple positions, but I'm more impressed when he takes strong contested marks, or burns an opponent to mark on the lead than all his added benefits.

We are all getting excited at this time of year but lets hope we are still excited come August, would be a nice change.

But RF didn't mention 'imposing himself on a game" - he merely mentioned the easiest of tasks for a leader - encouragement and proper body language. And it shouldn't matter whether you are 90 points up or down - you should be always encouraging and urging your teammates to look to you for the right attitude.

The 5-year plan thinking is the most contentious aspect of it. On the one hand you've got a guy bulging with muscles at 18 who has the requisite aggression for modern footy and can clearly play ... more or less immediately. On the other you've got a very skillful stick insect trying to develop a number of variables (the most significant one being body shape) that may or may not mean he turns out to the player you project him to be ... in five years! Purely on the risk/reward percentages you should be taking the first guy every time unless he is a standout in class like Watts. I think this pick would have privately rankled Neeld when he sat down and reflected on our recruiting.

We are about start the third year of our tenth five year plan.

I was listening to Neil Balme on the radio the other day and he stated that the leadership group is considerably more important than the individual that's made captain. Melb has been bereft of a quality leadership group for years. While the captain is obviously important let's hope we're starting to assemble a group that can be a powerful nucleus of this side for the next 5-7 years.

Yep. I am with you on this. Some of the venom being thrown in here at G.Lyon is totally disgraceful. Some of you people need to go to the hall of mirrors & have a good hard look at yourselves.

No recruiter ever gets every pick 'right', despite being paid for the job. It's an impossible benchmark to attain. If being 'paid' is the criterion for success, investment funds would never lose money. Aren't we all being a little premature on Cook? He's been in the system a year, been injured, and is only 19.

Im a fence sitter on this one. No doubt that Garry Lion has helped out the club over the last little while, but I can also see why people would be saying negative things about the set of circumstances that were required in order for him to become involved. He's obviously made some things happen but i wouldnt paint him as the messiah in all of this. If anyone is the unsung hero, its Schwab

This is the picture I saw. And no stats will illustrate it for those who love stats (and I am partial to numbers). But stats lie.

This is why I like my club being a club that asks 'how would the person feel about that'? It has a part to play in every organisation. Including a multi national company. Jimmy Stynes and the MFC have been in a long term relationship and it has been functionally good for both parties for decades. The day the MFC turns on Jimmy due to his inabilty to act as a functional President will be the day i turn my back on the club. He is the 'Spiritual Leader' and that plays a pivotal part in the make up of the club. His illness transcends the MFC to every club and the AFL. Every club supporter, AFL supporter and non supporter are dropping any deep seated bias and banding together to hope for the well being for the guy This post is not sentimental tripe. To talk tough and suggest to drop the guy as he is unable to function at 100% is just wrong. Its not even human. Jim inspires ppl and the players/club.

Pray tell me, simple minded as I must be, just how has Strauss "improved his game" since his injury??? I am not aware that he has actually played a game, so how could he possibly improve it?? Have I missed something? He may have improved his "approval rating" here, but not his game!!