Tanking

[e25 5]

Once again I see someone mention Carlton tanking to get priority picks and I keep thinking - how could we combat this?

I think the best solution would be a lottery based system, much like in the american NBA.

Balls are drawn out and the worse a team's record, the more balls they get, increasing their chances.

But it is not gauranteed a bad record will get a good pick.

Or even if the bottom 4 teams have an equal chance of getting the bottom pick.

Not sure how this would work with priority picks, but I guess its a start. Maybe they could get an extra pick in the draw.

Would Carlton have tanked if they stood a chance to only get picks 4 & 5?

Was hoping you guys culd contribute some thoughts...

[biggestred 4,764]

relegate the bastards

doesnt matter where to or who replaces them. just get them trying to win.

but this should be reserved for teams who are crap consistently - ie to stop them doing a st kilda or a carlton

[Dappa Dan 2,188]

Yep. The lottery system has been applauded by many... And they stuck with it I believe, which shows it's getting results. That said, I'm not sure if any team has been badly shortchanged yet.

I liked Sheedy's idea of awarding picks to teams in the bottom eight who make the highest score in the points for column. That would mean you still had to work for the picks and couldn't tank, and it would combat the flood. There are problems with the idea, but I think it's a good starting point.

[dazzledavey36 52,689]

just to let u all in a secret that i actually haven't mentioned before but i have met heath scotland a fair few times as he comes up my way coz he has cousins living here.. anywayz i was talkin to his cousin ( high school best mate) and he said that heath told him that carlton did tank the last game and brett rattan was more then concerned in winning! they had a brief meeting during the week and had a long hard chat, and all players decided they would tank the last game and win priority selection. this really shocked coming from an actual carlton players mouth. said also they knew judd was wanting to come back to melbourne and was onto him before the year finished and offered him lots of cash into judd which he put carlton as his number one club to play for before all the interviews with other clubs began.

that story made my blood boil and thats coming from the mouth of heath scotland

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

And you have just realised that?

[Paul Gardner 6]

Once again I see someone mention Carlton tanking to get priority picks and I keep thinking - how could we combat this?

I think the best solution would be a lottery based system, much like in the american NBA.

Balls are drawn out and the worse a team's record, the more balls they get, increasing their chances.

But it is not gauranteed a bad record will get a good pick.

Or even if the bottom 4 teams have an equal chance of getting the bottom pick.

Not sure how this would work with priority picks, but I guess its a start. Maybe they could get an extra pick in the draw.

Would Carlton have tanked if they stood a chance to only get picks 4 & 5?

Was hoping you guys culd contribute some thoughts...

Mark my words! Carlton Will Not tank this year & i'm sure will hope to finish around 9th or 10th.

[Jumping Jack Clennett 1,748]

If only one of us had suggested it, perhaps we could have out-tanked them.

[Guest Schtacker]

Carlton team meeting during the week of round 22:

"OK boys we're going to leave Travis Johnstone completely ungaurded playing off half-back"

TJ - 35 kicks, 7 handballs, 1 goal and 3 brownlow votes - Job done

Ah well, maybe it helped elevate him, in Brissy's minds, to something worthy of a pick 14 and hopefully a great pickup in J.Grimes for us

If you guys reckon you are sickened by Carlton now and over the last few years think how angry you'll be over the next few when they become really, really good. Pack of cheats.

[Luck Lucy 0]

One thing most of us didn't know at the time was that Carlton was heavily into getting Chris Judd and some people believe he was already committed to them well before Round 22. If that were true then they were not only tanking for Kreuzer but also for Judd - a strategy that worked perfectly for them. It follows that there would be no interference from the AFL in this scenario because the AFL wants a club like Carlton to be successful because it want to improve its bottom line - it's all about money after all. You would therefore expect the AFL to react to this by denying that an AFL team would tank games. Could someone please remind me what the Fonz said on this subject?

[Bring-Back-Powell 14,307]

I think the fact that Whitnall kicked 3 or 4 behinds in the first quarter of that rd 22 match was evidence enough that they were tanking. Too only win by 6 goals was a poor effort from us. We should've smashed them by 100 points, considering we had the first 7 goals on the board.

Mind you Jamar held his own in the tanking department by kicking the ball the wrong way.

[Toad33 57]

I posted this last year.

"I don't like the priority pick.

I don't like any form of 'raffle' either. No matter how many 'chances' the lowest team has, It doesn't mean the lowest team will ever benefit from the best draft selection!!!!!

Given that the AFL brought in the draft to even out the competition over a period of time, which it has largely done, I believe it should just revert back to 'worst to best' draft selections in any given year. However, I think they should add that first round draft picks CANNOT be traded. That way the worst team gets, and has to use, the best pick. Just the way the draft system was set up for."

After a bit more thought on the subject.

To add a further dimension to it all (I think I posted this somewhere else too but couldn't find it); draft selections should probably be determined by the 'average' position a team finishes in over 4 seasons.

That way a team who has sustained success or failure can't, or won't, get the advantage or disadvantage of a year where they finish at the other end of the ladder. (which although we have arguably had the most benefit from that scenario means it won't happen again.) It probably won't completely stop tanking or the suspicion that it does actually happen but it will definitely make sure the best teams get the worst selections and vice versa. It will also mean that teams that constantly finish in the middle of the ladder will strive to make the finals because they know a low finish will not necesarily see them get a low pick.

Your thoughts.

Go Dees

[deanox 9,641]

Given that the AFL brought in the draft to even out the competition over a period of time, which it has largely done, I believe it should just revert back to 'worst to best' draft selections in any given year. However, I think they should add that first round draft picks CANNOT be traded. That way the worst team gets, and has to use, the best pick. Just the way the draft system was set up for."

the problem with that is that no one will ever get a just reward for trading a champion player who chooses to leave. can you imagine judd saying im leaving and the best pick that can be offered for him is 17?

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

Given that the AFL brought in the draft to even out the competition over a period of time, which it has largely done, I believe it should just revert back to 'worst to best' draft selections in any given year. However, I think they should add that first round draft picks CANNOT be traded. That way the worst team gets, and has to use, the best pick. Just the way the draft system was set up for."

I dont see the issue with trading a first round draft pick. Either way the Club get the value of the pick either a future star or a quality player to supplement their list. Such restrictions only limit the transfer of players between the Clubs. It would undermine the once in 5 year CJ deals. How many 2nd round picks would Judd be worth?

I further dont see a problem with the bottom side getting the No 1 pick and so forth. Its the priority pick conditions that cause the problem.

The way to eliminate tanking is to reduce the incentive.....remove the nexus of the priority pick. There is little incentive to tank and differentiate between pick 1 and 3 given you dont know for sure how another Club will choose and it may not be how you would choose your pick preferences. There is a reason if you get access to an additional quality player.

[occo 2]

I think a better way than the lottery system is to have the draft picks chosen after the end of round 15. That is that at round 15, teams get draft picks based on where they are on the ladder at that point in time. This emiminates the chances of teams knowing they wont make the finals after round 15 and choosing to tank. I think this system could really work but AD still remains defiant that tanking doesent happen. What an idiot

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

I think a better way than the lottery system is to have the draft picks chosen after the end of round 15. That is that at round 15, teams get draft picks based on where they are on the ladder at that point in time. This emiminates the chances of teams knowing they wont make the finals after round 15 and choosing to tank. I think this system could really work but AD still remains defiant that tanking doesent happen. What an idiot

The bottom three last year know by round 5 they were gone this year. Issues of Carlton's tanking commenced way earlier than Round 15.

The prioritisation of the draft is to assist the weaker clubs ahead of the better clubs. The implementation of a lottery especially at round 15 only undermines the drafts objectives.

[don cordner 199]

talking about tanking, i wreckon we'll have a bad year..

we got rid of all our depth players.. I don't think we'lll do better than last year..

i think we'll finish bottom of the ladder pick up that big ruckman at pick 1 and cousins in the preseason.

ooh yer..

anyway time will tell.

peace

[Al`s DEMONS 0]

talking about tanking, i wreckon we'll have a bad year..

we got rid of all our depth players.. I don't think we'lll do better than last year..

i think we'll finish bottom of the ladder pick up that big ruckman at pick 1 and cousins in the preseason.

ooh yer..

anyway time will tell.

peace

some players retierd, but those who were sent into exile knew the writing was on the wall. Neitz and Yze and will retire at seasons end with others needing a big year to avoid the same fate. dont write us off yet

[don cordner 199]

well to be honest i do have faith in our list but only if we are injury free.

if we get just a few injuries though i think it will be doomsday..

and we'll finish last since we have no depth..

retired, delisted whatever still the players that are now gone did give us depth.

[Al`s DEMONS 0]

well to be honest i do have faith in our list but only if we are injury free.

if we get just a few injuries though i think it will be doomsday..

and we'll finish last since we have no depth..

retired, delisted whatever still the players that are now gone did give us depth.

if Moloney can take the field thats a big + for us, and with the emergance of Dunn the mids are ok. im hoping Bate can take a big step this year and take some pressure of the usual suspects. the big worry is the backline.