Full Back

[paddo 0]

Whilst I'm happy with the kids we picked up in this year's draft, I was surprised (like many others) to see that we did not recruit one of Rance, Pears or Notte.

There does not appear to be a genuine full back on our list. Whilst Carroll has battled admirably over the past few years, it's fair to say that he has played more like a back pocket, taking the opposition's no.2 forward leaving the monsters to Benny Holland who is ageing and injury prone.

Assuming Holland retires at the end of 2008, I can't see anyone on our list at present being able to play as a genuine full back until at least 2011.

Carroll - not big enough

Frawley - needs time to fill out

McNamara - prefer to see, is he a full back??

Miller - can't do it

When you look at premiership teams in recent years, they have had exceptional full backs - Glass, Scarlett, Daryl Wakelin, Michael, Fletcher, Martyn, Silvagni (going back a while).

If we are to win a flag in the near future, we MUST look at recruiting/developing guys specifically for this role. I think this has been the failings of CAC and others in recent times.

Thoughts??

[Total-Dee 2]

I think its a fair assessment of Melbournes Back line. I would like to see more cohesion in our back line (IE working for each other better). I think carroll has done a brilliant job and should be allowed to continue to do so. Other teams have used team work to break down the big full forwards from other clubs and we need to just do it better.

Barry Hall, Matthew Lloyd and the like can both be stopped if back lines help each other (Either to fill the lead in gaps or an extra man up to punch the ball clear)

I hope a lot more effort is put into our defense this year as I already believe our midfield and forward line is good enough to win the flag.

[old55 23,687]

Thoughts??

Please list the monster FF that we should be so worried about - yeah Gehrig, Rocca and Thompson - but the main thing they have in common is that they're in their twilight. Full forward speed rather than bulk is the issue - Carroll, Frawley and maybe Garland are well equipped in this area.

[Yze_Magic 3]

Frawley will be our next full back, and one of the best in the comp

Rivers is fit and ready to slot in at CHB and dominate

Carroll is no slouch. He looked bad in 2007 becuase our midfield was a joke and the opposition went forward with ease. Our whole backline was under pressure the whole year.

Daniel Bell is just a gun, and can play tall or small. Has blistering speed and neat skills. Absolute gun.

Bartram and Whelan will abe back too.

I think our backline is in good hands, I dont see why everyone is stressing so much.

[Little Goffy 14,639]

Initially I did this just as an exercise, but there's an obvious point when you put this lot together:

Michael - 190cm

Martyn - 190cm

Glass - 192cm

Scarlett - 192cm

Daryl Wakelin - 192cm

Silvagni - 194cm

Nicholson - 197cm

Fletcher - 199cm

Admittedly, Michael and Martyn (are this first names or surnames?) were seriously strong, but they are also the shortest on this list.

Frawley's weight at the start of 07 was just 82kg. Dunno how much he put on during the year, but hopefully he'll be 90kg in time for next season, and then reach a long-term playing weight of mid nineties for season 2009. By then he would be both physically and mentally ready to be a full-time fullback. Fingers crossed.

I still think your point is valid about needing someone who can match the true goliath full-forwards, but I think it's a more specialised role. Kind of why Holland is still on the list but unlikely to play more than a dozen games a year. Whoever plays this position would probably need to have another string to their bow. In my mind, it'll be Paul Johnson as the Two-Ton Utility - gorilla-keeping in defence, a big man forward option, and occassionally in at the ruck contest.

[sylvinator 96]

2-3 years time i see our back line like this:

Frawley and Carrol to take to best 2 opposition tall forwards playing deep.

Rivers playing at CHB.

Garland and Macnamara playing as tall flankers or 3rd tall backmen who read the play well and cut off everything across half forward- Basically the 'Bizzel' role.

Bell and Cheney playing as defensive players against small forwards.

Pettard and Bartram providing run out of defense.

i think the smokey that could turn this defensive group into a great one could be Morton. He could potentially become a CHB imo.

in the mean time, we'll have to rely on the likes of Wheatley, Holland, Warnock and Miller to help our against the tall forwards while Garland, Frawley, Morton and MacNamara are still 2-3 years away from playing their best footy. that's why for the next couple of years we will struggle to make top4

[paddo 0]

Garland, Frawley, Morton and MacNamara are still 2-3 years away from playing their best footy. that's why for the next couple of years we will struggle to make top4

that's exactly my point sylvinator

[Demons 32 235]

Over the past few years ive hated hated hated our backline.

But I am now quite happy with it.

Carroll: He may not be a monster but he does a very good job at what he is suppossed to do. He only looked so bad because the rest of the team sucked last year.

Frawley: I didn't wants Frawls playing so much again this year but ive decided I want him out their all 22 games. Play him at CHB all season, I see him being a great backmen for us in the next 8 years.

Bartram: What a little beauty he has been aye? We all love him. We all know he is a great guy. I met some blokes on schoolies a few years back who all played juniors and went to school with him. They all loved him and were so happy to see him shine as he was never the star of the club but always gave 100% for his mates. This is why we love Bartram and can't wait to see him for the next 10 years.

Whelan: Wheels the Wrecker. Missed his toughness and passion last year but should slide right into the back pocket and dominate, as he always has.

Bell: What a revelation, he took us by storm and basically in the absence of Rivers controlled the backline all season, we know he is a beauty, now he is stepping up and showing the league.

Rivers: The MVP of our team, people outside of Melbourne fans just don't see how important he is, is everything to us. He is Bizzel at his prime at a younger age. Absolute superstar and who I want as captain, just stay injury free please.

Petterd: Provides extremely good run out of the backline, can head forward but I like him on the back flank the most. A sweeping player for the future. Another classic CAC pick up. Didn't see him coming but wow, can the kid play.

Then we have even more youth.

Mcnamara, Cheney, Warknock, Garland (although I don't think he will make it in the end)

Also we have other players I see making a name for themselves or pinch hitting in the backline.

Green and Bruce can hit the back flanks.

I think Morton will have time down their, Grimes could be suited to a back flanks.

I would like to see Davey back their in a Burgoyne roll.

Alot of plusses for our backline.

I hope next years backline looks like this.

Bell (run from backline) Carroll Whelan

Bartram Frawley Rivers (sweeping role)

I hope this is it in 2011.

Bell Frawley Cheney

Petterd Rivers Mcnamara

[Brocky 4]

2-3 years time i see our back line like this:

Frawley and Carrol to take to best 2 opposition tall forwards playing deep.

Rivers playing at CHB.

Garland and Macnamara playing as tall flankers or 3rd tall backmen who read the play well and cut off everything across half forward- Basically the 'Bizzel' role.

Bell and Cheney playing as defensive players against small forwards.

Pettard and Bartram providing run out of defense.

i think the smokey that could turn this defensive group into a great one could be Morton. He could potentially become a CHB imo.

That is 9 defenders, or at least 9 behind the ball. Are we going to be playing run and carry?

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

Carroll: He may not be a monster but he does a very good job at what he is suppossed to do. He only looked so bad because the rest of the team sucked last year.

............

I hope next years backline looks like this.

Bell (run from backline) Carroll Whelan

Bartram Frawley Rivers (sweeping role)

I hope this is it in 2011.

Bell Frawley Cheney

Petterd Rivers Mcnamara

Why did we try and trade Carroll? And why didnt any other Club show any interest?

Carroll and Whelan (twilight of his career) will struggle to hold their positions beyond this year.

I agree with your 2011 direction though.

[Demons 32 235]

Why did we try and trade Carroll? And why didnt any other Club show any interest?

Carroll and Whelan (twilight of his career) will struggle to hold their positions beyond this year.

I agree with your 2011 direction though.

Agree about Carroll. I thought about that when writing but didn't mention it. All very well to say he was bad because we were. But then you could say he was only good in 2006 cause we were ok. Perhaps just a very mediocre player.

I think Whelan may still have something for at least this coming season.

[rpfc 28,779]

Hyperbole abounds with the most popular (McLean & Jones) and the least popular (Miller & Carroll).

The fact is that Carroll almost got AA honours in 2006, and you may say that such an accolade would be received only because of the performance of the team and the midfield itself in 2006. Yes, that is true but we sing the praises of Egan and the rest of Geelongs' honest backline - save Scarlett - when their dominance as a team meant that AA honours for their backline were assured.

Carroll will hold up FB for a year or two until a more skillful and athletic recruit takes his place.

In other words, Carroll is not the weak link that will affect where we finish in 2008.

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

Agree about Carroll. I thought about that when writing but didn't mention it. All very well to say he was bad because we were. But then you could say he was only good in 2006 cause we were ok. Perhaps just a very mediocre player.

I think Whelan may still have something for at least this coming season.

Hope you are right.

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

Hyperbole abounds with the most popular (McLean & Jones) and the least popular (Miller & Carroll).

The fact is that Carroll almost got AA honours in 2006, and you may say that such an accolade would be received only because of the performance of the team and the midfield itself in 2006. Yes, that is true but we sing the praises of Egan and the rest of Geelongs' honest backline - save Scarlett - when their dominance as a team meant that AA honours for their backline were assured.

Carroll will hold up FB for a year or two until a more skillful and athletic recruit takes his place.

In other words, Carroll is not the weak link that will affect where we finish in 2008.

Carroll did not get AA honours in 2006 and its hyberbole to claim how close he was and to make any reasonable comparison with the Geelong backline. Its chalk and cheese.

He is a hard working mediocre footballer who gets exposed under pressure.

It is telling that the Club sought to trade him recently and there were no takers. Hmmm!

[sylvinator 96]

Carroll did not get AA honours in 2006 and its hyberbole to claim how close he was and to make any reasonable comparison with the Geelong backline. Its chalk and cheese.

He is a hard working mediocre footballer who gets exposed under pressure.

It is telling that the Club sought to trade him recently and there were no takers. Hmmm!

RR stop posting as if u actually have any clue what actually happened in trade week with regards to carrol.

the club wanted a first round pick for a player. the only player that was able to get us that was johnstone and that's why he was traded. Carrol may have been offered up, but he wasn't worth a first rounder to any club, and thus wasn't traded. its very possible a team would be willing to part with a 2nd or 3rd rounder for carrol, but at the end of the day, that is not good enough compensation for us to trade our number1 fullback atm.

In 2006, Carrol proved a very steady and capable defender against the best forwards in the afl. 2007 he struggled, firstly because our [censored] midfield meant our backline was always under overwhelming pressure, but also because injuries to Rivers, Bartram and Whelan meant that our backline was compiled of 1st year players (frawley+pettard) who were playing out of their league, and aging average players like Bizzel, Brown and Ward.

No full back is going to look good if his midfield is applying no pressure, and injuries mean that the team can't have a settled back 6 playing together week in week out and gelling together. Having the same defenders playing together week in week out in imperative to having a strong defense.

Even Geelong in 2006, the best fullback in the league, Scarlett, OFTEN looked ordinary and out of sorts. Their midfield was ordinary, people were calling for Ling to be delisted, and injuries meant that couldn't have the same guyz playing together on a consistent basis. people were bagging Scarlett and others constantly throughout 2006. supporters just have short short memories.

If in 2008, Whelan, Rivers, Bartram, Carrol, Bell and Wheatley are able to play together each week, coupled with the development of Frawley, Pettard, Garland, McNamara and Cheney, Carrol will not look as vulnerable as he did in 2007. He is certainly no superstar fullback, but with a stronger midfield and less injuries to defenders, he will be much improved in 2008.

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

the club wanted a first round pick for a player. the only player that was able to get us that was johnstone and that's why he was traded. Carrol may have been offered up, but he wasn't worth a first rounder to any club, and thus wasn't traded. its very possible a team would be willing to part with a 2nd or 3rd rounder for carrol, but at the end of the day, that is not good enough compensation for us to trade our number1 fullback atm.

Clearly you dont Syl.

Re read my comments and you just might!

[Little Goffy 14,639]

Hyperbole abounds with the most popular (McLean & Jones) and the least popular (Miller & Carroll).

The fact is that Carroll almost got AA honours in 2006, and you may say that such an accolade would be received only because of the performance of the team and the midfield itself in 2006. Yes, that is true but we sing the praises of Egan and the rest of Geelongs' honest backline - save Scarlett - when their dominance as a team meant that AA honours for their backline were assured.

Carroll will hold up FB for a year or two until a more skillful and athletic recruit takes his place.

In other words, Carroll is not the weak link that will affect where we finish in 2008.

It'll be interesting to see if Carroll makes it to 100 games, actually, given his late blossoming.

I rate him, even this year when he hasn't been as effective. But you've got to remember, despite his mid-age status this was only his second full year at AFL level. I'd give him good odds of bouncing back and being a stalwart.

[drdrake 3,187]

I have an Idea, your back 6 actually plays as your back 6 and doesn't go past the centre line, the the HFF chase kicks let them and the HBF stands in the forwards space. Then the Full back has half a chance when their is no space for them to lead into. The big issue for a full back is when the other defenders are drawn up the ground and the full forward has a paddock in front of them, one clean break away the full back has no chance.

This is not flooding this is playing your position.

One the FB Frawley has to be thrown into the deep end, he is big enough to stand most forwards and if the back 6 help each other out like Geelong did in 2007 he will be fine.

[brey9186 102]

Ben Rutten???

[demonfanjezza 1]

One the FB Frawley has to be thrown into the deep end, he is big enough to stand most forwards and if the back 6 help each other out like Geelong did in 2007 he will be fine.

That is certainly what we need our backline working together. I would give Carroll another go at FB to start the year, and if he does not perform there I would put Frawley into FB

[paddo 0]

Please list the monster FF that we should be so worried about - yeah Gehrig, Rocca and Thompson - but the main thing they have in common is that they're in their twilight. Full forward speed rather than bulk is the issue - Carroll, Frawley and maybe Garland are well equipped in this area.

Pavlich

J Brown

Mooney/Hawkins/N Ablett (all guns, latter two will become star power forwards)

Roughead

Riewoldt

Lynch (he's actually pretty underrated, and is a premiership forward - he carved us up last time)

I don't think any of these guys are in their twilight. Feel free to add any more if they come to mind.

[Pepe Dee Pew 0]

Longer term do not be surprised to see Bate at FB if no one else develops. He is a good size, quick, creative and has played FB at TAC level (FF and mid as well).

[rpfc 28,779]

Carroll did not get AA honours in 2006 and its hyberbole to claim how close he was and to make any reasonable comparison with the Geelong backline. Its chalk and cheese.

He is a hard working mediocre footballer who gets exposed under pressure.

It is telling that the Club sought to trade him recently and there were no takers. Hmmm!

In 2006, Nathan Carroll was the 2nd best Full Back to Rutten.

You can argue the opposite all you like, plenty agree with me on this. If people want to find a scapegoat next season (a la ND for 2007) Carroll should not be the one. He is capable of FB if the rest of the team does its job too.

[jacey 333]

Frawley's got the frame to fill out to a very good FB. I've got faith in him.

Carroll's a serviceable and very capable number 2 defender. No more, No less.

[mo64 5,881]

Longer term do not be surprised to see Bate at FB if no one else develops. He is a good size, quick, creative and has played FB at TAC level (FF and mid as well).

Great suggestion PDP. We really struggle against power forwards with big engines, ie; Brown, Pavlich and Reiwoldt. Bate has the engine, but probably not the strength. Give him 1 or 2 years of physical development and playing experience, and I could see him being an ideal FB.

A vast majority of the best key backmen started their careers as key forwards.