Rhys Palmer

[Red and Blue Flame 191]

Can guarentee you that palmer, who i reckon we will be selecting at pick number 4...willbe the chris judd of the 2007 draft. he is a gem

[Axis of Bob 11,839]

Mini: How can you guarantee that? What makes him so good?

[Old Man Rivers 326]

Can guarentee you that palmer, who i reckon we will be selecting at pick number 4...willbe the chris judd of the 2007 draft. he is a gem

Would be wrapt if anyone turned out like C.Judd

What are you supporting your Palmer guarantee with M-CB?

[Hannabal 4]

I'm not in the 'know' within the club but I do get sick of CAC being let off the hook for Molan. Now Graz, or it may have been someone else, says it's on public record that Cameron was told to draft Molan. Really ? I've not read this. I do know that he was asked to recruit the toughest player in the draft. But I doubt Daniher added "and I don't care whether he can play". Especially with such a prized pick as 9. The facts are it was a dud pick. And it rests solely with CAC. Just as the successes rest soley with him. Afterall, it's his neck on the line. You can have all the advice in the world but the final choice is his. He may be asked for a certain type at a particular pick, but I'm sure no one dons the red and blue unless he's satisfied by his own eyes.

[Red and Blue Flame 191]

Because Palmer shares many of the same attributes that Chris Judd posessed in his u18 days.

Palmer has pace, and can run other teams into th ground

He knows how to get his hands on the ball, and can kick a good goal on the run

Alot like Judd

And perhaps for the best, palmer has gone a bit under the radar. Because if i was a recrutiting manager of a club with a top 3 draft pick..my eyes would certainly be on him

[Jarka 767]

Well I'll challenge you on your 'we could have had' spine.

B. Fevola - drafted in what 1999?. Can only play FF, during which time we've had Neitz, or Robbo as back-up.

C. Cornes - How many years has he played CHF? Currently an old fashioned utility, not a KPP.

M. Egan - So you're rating him ahead of Rivers based on 1 season, in which Rivers was out injured. Prior to this year,

Scarlett and Harley were the Cats FB and CHB.

B.Rutten - 1st game was as a FF. 3 goals with 1st 3 kicks. Selected as a rookie, hence every club got it wrong with him.

mo, I don't subscribe to the 'hindsight' attitude that we should have taken 'x' player, that post was made in response to Old's comments that there were no talented KPP's taken after our picks. I like to think that I proved him wrong.

(This is also responding to deanox as well) My argument is that somewhere in the process of drafting and developing kids we're failing in the KP/Ruck departments. We have a decent ruckman coming to the end of his career with no clear replacement (As of now Meesen hasn't shown anything to suggest he can be a premiership ruckman). We struggle to contain big forwards with only one true defender, and our only key forward with expeience has only one year left in him (will most likely struggle this year). Sure we have a decent group of young midfielders coming through but it's not good enough to challenge the better teams. We're not like the eagles of two seasons ago with a brilliant midfield led by Judd/Cousins & Kerr, to have a chance we need a balanced performance all over the ground to compete.

After ten years of being in control of recruiting CAC is left with a list that has huge holes in it. I challenge anyone to prove me wrong with this statement.

As I've already stated in this thread, I'm not sure if the problem is that we're drafting the wrong kids or we're failing to develop them correctly, but something has gone wrong with our KPP's. I get the feeling that this will change with Bailey on board though.

deanox, Bate and Dunn aren't KPP's. Bate may be able to pinch hit up forward but as a long term prospect he's future is in the midfield, I seem to remember that Bailey has already stated this as well. The jury is still out on Frawley, he hasn't made it yet but I'd be delighted if he turned into a key defender. !st round picks so far we're running 20% if Frawley makes it. I'll finish by saying that I've never said that CAC is a poor recruiter, in fact in the posts that you've responded to I've actually stated the opposite.

[sylvinator 96]

After ten years of being in control of recruiting CAC is left with a list that has huge holes in it. I challenge anyone to prove me wrong with this statement.

before people go all crazy....

i think we should keep in perspective that CAC has really not left as huge holes are people are suggesting.

imo Bate will be a star CHF (not a midfielder) and Newton a great key forward. Frawley also looks like becoming a great key defender....so although we have made some misses drafting KPP, which club hasn't!

if you want to see a list that is mismanaged, then take a look at the bulldogs...bulldogs supporters have real reason to question their recruiting team who has left them with a list with few tall players, and a multitude of slight runners.

if we find another KPP in this draft- Rance, Gourdis, Geartner, Scott Simpson, Myers could all be available at 14- then we will be in fine shape.

our drafting for the last 4 years has been terrific!

[davey_magik 1]

I actually think WCE won't take Cotchin and get Palmer instead, leaving us Cotchin, and hopefully Rance is still there at Pick 14.

[mauriesy 7,352]

mo, I don't subscribe to the 'hindsight' attitude

Yet your criticisms of previous drafts are entirely based on hindsight.

How about the evening after the 2007 draft, you pick the players you would have taken with our picks i.e. the ones that CAC would have had available and didn't pick, as opposed to the ones he did. Then in about 2010, we can look back at your list and see if you were any better. Up to it?

[Hannabal 4]

Yet your criticisms of previous drafts are entirely based on hindsight.

How about the evening after the 2007 draft, you pick the players you would have taken with our picks i.e. the ones that CAC would have had available and didn't pick, as opposed to the ones he did. Then in about 2010, we can look back at your list and see if you were any better. Up to it?

With respect, that's a ridiculous post.

If you're paid the bucks produce the goods.

[Jarka 767]

Yet your criticisms of previous drafts are entirely based on hindsight.

How about the evening after the 2007 draft, you pick the players you would have taken with our picks i.e. the ones that CAC would have had available and didn't pick, as opposed to the ones he did. Then in about 2010, we can look back at your list and see if you were any better. Up to it?

ML, you clearly haven't read the post that I was responding to (and I must admit that this is getting boring having to make this statement). Old made the statement that there has been virtually no talented KPP's taken after our picks over the last 10 years, he challenged me to prove him wrong.

Perhaps next time you should read the whole debate instead of taking a post out of context. Up to it?

[Jarka 767]

before people go all crazy....

i think we should keep in perspective that CAC has really not left as huge holes are people are suggesting.

imo Bate will be a star CHF (not a midfielder) and Newton a great key forward. Frawley also looks like becoming a great key defender....so although we have made some misses drafting KPP, which club hasn't!

if you want to see a list that is mismanaged, then take a look at the bulldogs...bulldogs supporters have real reason to question their recruiting team who has left them with a list with few tall players, and a multitude of slight runners.

if we find another KPP in this draft- Rance, Gourdis, Geartner, Scott Simpson, Myers could all be available at 14- then we will be in fine shape.

our drafting for the last 4 years has been terrific!

Bate is not/won't be a CHF. Bailey has already made a statement about this, he wants him to play as a midfielder.

Alot of people in footy circles believe that Frawley is more suited to a rebounding HBF role, regardless he has a long way to go before he's capable of holding down CHB

Next year will be Newton's 2nd year, it's unrealistic to expect him to play these roles for at least a couple of years

Who is or next Full Forward?

Who is our next Centre Half Forward?

Who is our next Full Back?

Who is our Next Ruckman?

If our future depends on who we take in this draft then we really are in a hole.

[sylvinator 96]

Bate is not/won't be a CHF. Bailey has already made a statement about this, he wants him to play as a midfielder.

Alot of people in footy circles believe that Frawley is more suited to a rebounding HBF role, regardless he has a long way to go before he's capable of holding down CHB

Next year will be Newton's 2nd year, it's unrealistic to expect him to play these roles for at least a couple of years

Who is or next Full Forward?

Who is our next Centre Half Forward?

Who is our next Full Back?

Who is our Next Ruckman?

If our future depends on who we take in this draft then we really are in a hole.

disagree.......

Firstly, Bate flourished this year when he was moved to CHF. if you Jarka do not see the Bate played genuine CHF for most of this season, then you must not have gone to many matches.

and what was the result of Bate playing CHF- 3rd in the b&f.

please show me where Bailey said he wanted to move Bate to the midfield...Sylvia and Dunn will certainly be moved to the midfield, but Bate should develop his game as a forward.

he has all the attributes to become a great, pavlichesk CHF. he has sticky mits, a thumping kick, a good goal sense, runs his but off all day and MOST importantly (and where Miller was let down), has a good footy brain.

Frawley is no doubt being groomed as our next Fullback. he has the frame to bulk up, has a good mark and great closing speed. in today's game, a fullback also generates run from defence (see Scarlett!), so i see know reason why Frawley can't become a key back.

Newton is only in his second season...true. but i have high hopes he will become a good key forward for many years to come.

my spine for the future...

Frawley- FB

Rivers- CHB

Mclean- Centre

Bate- CHF

Newton- FF

i believe our problem is that all teams need 3-4 key forwards and 3-4 key defenders...we lack depth in our key position players, and with Neitz nearing the end, we will need to develop another key forward to aid Newton and Bate. We certainly need another key back to help our and develop with frawley and rivers.

my spine for the future is young and developing, but there is real reason to believe it will become a strong spine in years to come.

we will certainly add ATLEAST another key position player with pick 14 or 21 to add to those stocks.

Rance to help our key defensive positions would be great, as would Collier or Myers. Henderson if he slips, Scott Simpson, Gourdis or Gaernter are others we will realistically draft to improve our KP stocks.

[mo64 5,880]

I'm not in the 'know' within the club but I do get sick of CAC being let off the hook for Molan. Now Graz, or it may have been someone else, says it's on public record that Cameron was told to draft Molan. Really ? I've not read this. I do know that he was asked to recruit the toughest player in the draft. But I doubt Daniher added "and I don't care whether he can play". Especially with such a prized pick as 9. The facts are it was a dud pick. And it rests solely with CAC. Just as the successes rest soley with him. Afterall, it's his neck on the line. You can have all the advice in the world but the final choice is his. He may be asked for a certain type at a particular pick, but I'm sure no one dons the red and blue unless he's satisfied by his own eyes.

Hannabal, i suggest you read what i wrote more closely. I made the point that CAC 'may' not 'was' instructed to draft a KP backman. I wouldn't know, because i'm not someone of authority within the club. But you obviously are, if you know for a fact that he was asked to recruit the toughest player in the draft.

Given that brief, no wonder he didn't pick Nick Dal Santo.

[Hannabal 4]

Hannabal, i suggest you read what i wrote more closely.

"It's a matter of public record that Luke Molan was not his choice, he was under instruction."

The comment above, and the one I referred to, was posted by Grazman.

And yes, I skimmed your post.

[grazman 7,451]

"It's a matter of public record that Luke Molan was not his choice, he was under instruction."

The comment above, and the one I referred to, was posted by Grazman.

And yes, I skimmed your post.

Seeing as I posted the comment, I'll elaborate. Molan was drafted a while ago now, and I'm pretty sure this has been referred to in a number of posts around the time, I just can't be bothered looking. It was a period in our list rebuilding where Danners was particularly worried about some issues such as KPP and "hardness". I believe his actual instruction were for CAC to draft the "toughest" player he knew. Now as you point out H, that shouldn't necessarily have been at the expense of actually being able to play and I'm sure that CAC thought the kid would be able to.

The situation is not that uncommon. Sheedy at Essendon did it a lot. Coaches presumably talk to their recruiting guys all the time in relation to list needs and that's not a bad thing, only when they start to restrict the "type" of player that your pick can be used on. I raised the point simply to highlight that left to their own devices recruiters make a better fist of it without interference.

[old55 23,687]

To answer Old’s question we could have had a spine of:

B.Fevola

C.Cornes

M.Egan

B.Rutten

So tell me Old, how many fingers do you actually have?

Kudos to you for going through the records and doing the hard yards - like I said there's very few good KPPs we've missed.

Of your fabulous 4 - a certifiable nutcase, a great player, someone who has had one good year and a rookie that everyone missed on a number of picks. Sorry if I'm unexcited about Nathan Thompson, Luke Penny and Toby Thurstans.

I think you're confused about what is a KPP - 17 of yours are ruckmen.

By the way Kade Simpson is 182cm and Jarrad Waite is F/S.

.

[Hannabal 4]

I believe his actual instruction were for CAC to draft the "toughest" player he knew.

Yes, I know. Did you not read my post #104 ?

I'm a stickler for correct interpretation and you had a different slant. The decision rests with CAC. Period.

EDIT: and after about 5 years of posting about Molan I'm as sick of rehashing the topic as CAC, and won't be posting further comment.

[grazman 7,451]

Yes, I know. Did you not read my post #104 ?

I'm a stickler for correct interpretation and you had a different slant. The decision rests with CAC. Period.

EDIT: and after about 5 years of posting about Molan I'm as sick of rehashing the topic as CAC, and won't be posting further comment.

I know I was replying to your comment, but the information wasn't meant for you alone.

[Jarka 767]

By the way Kade Simpson is 182cm and Jarrad Waite is F/S.

.

True, missed those, good pickups. With regards to the ruckman my crusade over the last 12 months on this issue has been with both of KPP and rucks, I tend to refer to them both as KPP's cause I'm too lazy and can't be bothered typing 'KPP & rucks' - sorry I should have clarified it earlier.

[old55 23,687]

True, missed those, good pickups. With regards to the ruckman my crusade over the last 12 months on this issue has been with both of KPP and rucks, I tend to refer to them both as KPP's cause I'm too lazy and can't be bothered typing 'KPP & rucks' - sorry I should have clarified it earlier.

No worries - good on you for going the distance.

I'm with you all the way where I hope we can pick up a KPP star this year or as soon as possible.

FWIW I'm still pretty hopeful that Newton, Bate (fullback anyone?) and Frawley can be at least very good players and Rivers a star.

I definitely think CAC has been improving his hit rate.

Another KPF is my preference - unlike most I'm not worried about our KPBs.

[deanox 9,985]

im of the opinion that we've done as well as any other club regarding rucks. white with that pick 2, we've also developed jolly and simmonds who have been reasonable rucks at other clubs. if either of those rucks were currently jamars age, no one would ever mention that we've had problems with rucks...its just that we are struggling atm...

[mauriesy 7,352]

With respect, that's a ridiculous post.

If you're paid the bucks produce the goods.

And Craig hasn't? No one has given me any good comparative data yet.

I can't see why it's ridiculous in terms of someone criticising a recruiter's records to be asked to try it in real time, rather than a few years down the track ... recruiters don't have the benefits of a player's post-career when they make their decisions, unlike the person making the post-critique. The success rate even for a good recruiter is way less than 100%, and it's even worse for KPPs taken after the top 5, whether it's CAC or anyone else. Try the perspective from Craig's shoes, rather than making some armchair criticism years later.

For what it's worth, given all the available information and Melbourne's needs, at the time I like a lot of others thought Chris Lamb and Luke Molan filled the bill. You win some, you lose some.

[deanox 9,985]

No worries - good on you for going the distance.

I'm with you all the way where I hope we can pick up a KPP star this year or as soon as possible.

FWIW I'm still pretty hopeful that Newton, Bate (fullback anyone?) and Frawley can be at least very good players and Rivers a star.

I definitely think CAC has been improving his hit rate.

Another KPF is my preference - unlike most I'm not worried about our KPBs.

interesting idea about bate as a fullback, although i think one of his biggest assets is his motor which is partly wasted at fullback.

old you mentioned needing a KPF more than a KPB and while i agree that when neitz goes it is likely that we will have a huge gaping hole, dont think think FF is an easier position to fill? if our backline is strong and rebounding well, and our midfield is on top, we could rotate players like green, bate, robbo, yze (god forbid) through the FF position while allowing newton to play further up (ie CHF). a good midfield ould hit a player on a lead, and it doesnt matter if he is 5 or 6 foot is he is running hard and delivery is good. if we have a backline leaking like a sieve it makes it a bit harder. although you coudl effectively argue that a good midfield would make it easier for our defenders and that if we had a powerful forward line that would counter thhe extra few goals. it will be interesting to see what path we take at the draft this year, and what happens to players like miller and garland in the future, because they could make the difference to this balance if they hold down a spot.

[Hannabal 4]

And Craig hasn't? No one has given me any good comparative data yet.

I can't see why it's ridiculous in terms of someone criticising a recruiter's records to be asked to try it in real time, rather than a few years down the track ... recruiters don't have the benefits of a player's post-career when they make their decisions, unlike the person making the post-critique. The success rate even for a good recruiter is way less than 100%, and it's even worse for KPPs taken after the top 5, whether it's CAC or anyone else. Try the perspective from Craig's shoes, rather than making some armchair criticism years later.

For what it's worth, given all the available information and Melbourne's needs, at the time I like a lot of others thought Chris Lamb and Luke Molan filled the bill. You win some, you lose some.

Jesus pal, have you read the thread ? If you had, you wouldn't be asking me "And Craig hasn't ?".

But to ask an amateur supporter to undertake the excersise you did as well as infer that Cameron is above such scrutiny was ridiculous.