Video of Voss, Lawrence, Gehrig - St.Kilda bar fight

[QueenC 74]

I think I speak for everyone when I say: we want details!

A friend of mine was seeing an older woman, who had a husband, but didn't tell him......

We were at a bar in Crows Nest in Sydney and hubby stormed the place looking for Daniel, and when he saw us together (not together together, just together) he and his mates went after Dan and his friends. He hit me over the head with the cue for being, wait for it, the other woman to his wife's other man.

If that makes any sense, it is a little complicated.

Anyway I went down cold and was out for a while, as all hell broke out, and as I came to and tried to get up I got clocked by a ball being thrown at someone else.

I spent a couple of nights in hospital with a hairline skull fracture and got eight stitches. Which was nothing compared to what Daniel copped. He spent a month in hospital having a number of procedures, and he then had to go through rehab because he had his back broken. He is fine now though, and single thankfully!!!

So they are the details of my being involved in a bar brawl and I don't recommend it to anyone !!!

[QueenC 74]

Indeed. Didn't think QC was the type to get in pub brawls

Oh I am definitely not, but I do know how to defend myself......

From nearly everything other than, of course, a pool cue to the back of the head !!!

[Jaded No More 68,958]

So they are the details of my being involved in a bar brawl and I don't recommend it to anyone !!!

Dear god!

Glad to hear everyone is ok. Sure gives new meaning to the saying 'love hurts'!

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

This will all be just another storm in a teacup.

And if it seriously impinges on whether we were to get Voss or not then its clear we were not certain on him anyway.

As much as I admire Voss as a player and certainly a prospect as a Coach I have to wonder:

1. Why he would socialise with a couple of public neanderthals like Lawrence and Gehrig? (I understand the the historical connection with the players).

2. Why he did not just walk away from the whole situation and show some maturity?

3. How he expects to impose the strong "Brisbane" team ethics and rules of behaviour on players in a side like MFC when he has demonstrated some stunningly poor form himself amongst the general public?

Like I said its a storm in a teacup but I wonder...

[QueenC 74]

Glad to hear everyone is ok. Sure gives new meaning to the saying 'love hurts'!

.......and reading it back now there does seem to be a distinct 'Melrose Place' feel about the whole thing !!!

[herb 1]

Voss was a great player...........

BUT in terms of being our next coach, NO THANKS>

So many ditractions i dont know where to start.

This incident is only the start.

He never had to deal with the spotlight of playing footy in Melbourne,,, he was hidden awy in QLD....

He handled the Aker stiuation like a baby.... couldnt get along with him so made sure aker was excluded...

He has no coacjing experience as we all know, but yet half of you think he ll make a great coach...WHY! cause he was a great player. There s plenty of great players who commentat and write for the papers and have no idea. He played in one team away from melbourne thats it......

There are so many good candidates like Mckenna, Ratten and the Horse why do we want to be the club who takes the risk on the only bloke in footy arrogant enough to think he can walk in to a coaching job with no experience....

NO THANKS

[maximum bob 462]

Voss's brief moment of stupidity will be a 10 minute wonder and in no way affect his chances of being appointed as a senior coach. Whether for us or someone else.

I won't bother to list the litany of the way-more serious offences committed by listed VFL/AFL players here. Anyone with half a memory and an ear to the ground will know that Voss's punch ranks low on the scale and multitude of offences recorded over the years. Dumb, but hardly a career threatening event. If it was, why did a national television network sign him up fully aware that he was in the spotlight for his indiscretion. It's not as though it was some big secret. It's been in the press for ages.

Some points you make 'too much Herb' aren't worth responding to but a few are.

The fact Voss didn't play footy in Melbourne you lead off with as your most important reason. Three premierships on an alien ground 'in the spotlight' as you see it looks pretty good to me.

Voss is a 'baby'. Doesn't warrant a comment.

Of your other preferred coaches only Ratten appeals as a fallback appointment. This continual conservative thinking that an AFL coach has to be a proved assistant is the way back for the MFC not the way forward. This softly-softly approach has held the club back for years.

Time to bite the bullet and appoint Voss. What have we got to lose? A touch of arrogance with footy nous wouldn't go astray unless you're happy with another decade of 'that's good enough'.

I'm over it.

[WonnaJurah 5]

bring back the biff indeed

voss for coach for sure ,bring the toughness backj to our team

[Deelicious9 0]

You people who reckon Voss was out of line, pull your heads out of your arses and open up your eyes!!!!!!

it was barely an open handed slap, if he was serious and wanted to do damage he would have gone harder or continued to go. He showed great constraint to leave it at that. I dare all of you to watch your mate nearly get his taken off with a pool ball (provoked or not) and do less about it!

Lawrence was stupid, Gehrig was fine, Macrae was understandable and judging by Black's body language he barely woke up during it all.

[QueenC 74]

Apropos.......

Voss lawyer blasts leaked footage

[deanox 9,931]

voss never thought the footage would get out, or didnt realise there was any, imo.

voss walked out of a club and attacked a person standing there without warning. there may have been an altercation earlier but not at this time. voss's actions weren't a reaction or a self defence, they were premeditated and purposeful.

there is a problem with voss's situation, and it is that he is claiming he is ready to step straight into a head coaching job. he is claiming that he is good enough, that he is responsible enough, that he is wise enough to be the leader, and the boss effectively of a group of 40 men at whatever club he goes too. he needs to be able to lead by example. he may be a great leader. he may have all the attributes of a great coach. but to lead a group at the highest level you need to be above this. he is still a young bloke, one of the guys. i think part of the benefit that comes with an apprenticeship as an assistant coach is the coach has a chance to mature into his own man, and you learn how to assume the role of an authority figure. if voss is socialising with other footballers still he hasnt transcended this level yet and i therefore have questions on his suitability for the job.

might be a great coach, might struggle to win respect and impart appropriate discipline if he socialises at the same places the players do.

[Redleg 40,944]

Besides, I couldn't care less what he does outside of football. He has been nothing but outstanding as a leader of his football club and this competition for many years.

I hope you are not serious with that comment. I think it needs a moment's reflection.

[Alan Smithee 0]

I also strongly agree. He is a human being. He has a career like most people. But so what if he is a footballer. He is not above the law. Jaded, In reply to your comment I suspect you've just had a brain fade as opposed to what could otherwise be considered as an alarmingly unhealthy perspective on social behaviours & attitudes.

[herb 1]

Maximum Bob..........

In No way was i ranking issue s in order, they are just areas i find concerning for someone who wants to be a senior coach...possibly of the club i love....

His handling of the Aker situation to me shows he is not good at dealing with a range of personalities and as a senior coach the best know how to deal with all types..

you also say that ratten is the only viable option and longmire and McKenna are not..

Like them or not you must be the only person into footy who thinks that either of those towo wont make great senior coach s one day.. have you any clue

I agree that there are players that could go straight to senior coaching, im just not convinced its Voss

[Jaded No More 68,958]

I hope you are not serious with that comment. I think it needs a moment's reflection.

I explained myself in a later post.

I don't care what he does off the field, in that he can go out, drink, etc... as long as it does not compromise our footy club.

He was not an AFL player when the incident took place. Now that doesn't mean it was ok, but he had no responsibility to anyone at the time, but himself.

Meanwhile, when at Brisbane, he has been nothing short of outstanding, and the same goes for his time at Ch.10

I don't condone people going out and punching strangers, but it was clearly a provoked reaction.

I myself am not a saint, so I won't sit there and judge someone who had a minor slip-up of judgment. I think we're all guilty of that sometimes, and part of being human is making mistakes and learning from them. If anyone deserves a second chance, it would be Michael Voss.

And one more thing, why is this all of a sudden such a huge deal? This incident was made public months ago, and we all still strongly supported Voss.

Just because we now have video evidence of him throwing one solitary punch, we are ready to change our mind?

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

Voss's behaviour compromises any entity he represents.

I dont see the relevance of the provoked reaction to you not condoning hitting people. It was a lack of self control, poor judgement and appalling behaviour. He had no need to do it and I dont think it is a minor slip up. He has been charged by the police and its serious.

Its a not a matter of whether it damns him as a coach or not, its just unacceptable behaviour especially from someone who is publicly recognised for his leadership and at 34 (?) it does raise questions.

I know you want him as Coach but your defense of his actions that night is misguided

[Jaded No More 68,958]

I know you want him as Coach but your defense of his actions that night is misguided

I do want him as coach, and this incident does not change my mind in the slightest.

Again, I'm not defending him. What he did was stupid, but it's hardly earth shattering.

We have players taking drugs, players associating with criminals, players being accused of hitting and sexually assaulting women and we let them play. Suddenly because someone loses their cool on a drunken night out, his capabilities of representing the MFC is reduced?

It was a dumb, weak moment, which IMO Voss has already paid for with all this bad publicity.

As I said, we all make mistakes and we're all human. I don't think that just because someone has a clean slate that they are better suited to coach this club. If Voss had a long history of inappropriate behaviour, than of course you wouldn't want him coaching our club. However, one brain fade shouldn't jeopardized his coaching career.

The worse penalty a court could possibly hand out is community service or a fine. It will get sorted in August and we can all move on.

Gees, it's just a slow news week

[Rogue 585]

voss walked out of a club and attacked a person standing there without warning. there may have been an altercation earlier but not at this time. voss's actions weren't a reaction or a self defence, they were premeditated and purposeful.

From the footage it certainly looks that way. When I initially heard the reports I imagined that Voss may have been involved in some brawl in which a punch was thrown. The footage seems to indicate - and note that Voss' lawyer states that it's out of context - exactly what you've said; a premeditated attack.

there is a problem with voss's situation, and it is that he is claiming he is ready to step straight into a head coaching job. he is claiming that he is good enough, that he is responsible enough, that he is wise enough to be the leader, and the boss effectively of a group of 40 men at whatever club he goes too. he needs to be able to lead by example. he may be a great leader. he may have all the attributes of a great coach. but to lead a group at the highest level you need to be above this. he is still a young bloke, one of the guys. i think part of the benefit that comes with an apprenticeship as an assistant coach is the coach has a chance to mature into his own man, and you learn how to assume the role of an authority figure. if voss is socialising with other footballers still he hasnt transcended this level yet and i therefore have questions on his suitability for the job.

might be a great coach, might struggle to win respect and impart appropriate discipline if he socialises at the same places the players do.

Interesting post.

.......and reading it back now there does seem to be a distinct 'Melrose Place' feel about the whole thing !!!

Sure does

Something I'm not sure has been mentioned in this thread is the accusation by Voss' lawyer re: motivations behind the leaking. Voss' lawyer intimates that the timing of the leak was designed to damage Voss' chances at a senior AFL coaching gig. Could just be hot air of course.

[Kit Walker 225]

And one more thing, why is this all of a sudden such a huge deal? This incident was made public months ago, and we all still strongly supported Voss.

Just because we now have video evidence of him throwing one solitary punch, we are ready to change our mind?

The reason it has become a huge deal is because, before the footage was released, you can give the benefit of the doubt to someone rather than pre-judging on the basis of a lack of evidence.

The video clearly shows him walking out of the pub and punching someone who had his hands by his sides and was clearly not expecting it. A few people on this forum and who I've talked to generally think it was justified because this bloke apparently threw a pool ball at someone's head earlier. That's wrong because he wasn't defending his mate, he was just retaliating later in a pretty callous and cowardly manner. As Rhino correctly said, the Magistrate will deal with him and I have little doubt it will cause any club looking at him to have serious second thoughts.

[Jaded No More 68,958]

The reason it has become a huge deal is because, before the footage was released, you can give the benefit of the doubt to someone rather than pre-judging on the basis of a lack of evidence.

The video clearly shows him walking out of the pub and punching someone who had his hands by his sides and was clearly not expecting it. A few people on this forum and who I've talked to generally think it was justified because this bloke apparently threw a pool ball at someone's head earlier. That's wrong because he wasn't defending his mate, he was just retaliating later in a pretty callous and cowardly manner. As Rhino correctly said, the Magistrate will deal with him and I have little doubt it will cause any club looking at him to have serious second thoughts.

The video shows the guy clearly throwing the ball.

Do we know how long after Voss punched him? I would suggest it was a matter of minutes.

If this situation took place between Joe Public you would never hear about it. It is such a common occurance, guys get drunk, guys start a fight, until someone throws a pool ball and gets their head punched in. If you haven't witnessed something similar yourself, you probably haven't spent enough time on Fitzroy St.

That does not make it alright, and there is no justification for physical violence, but I think the reaction of some to the situation has been blown out of all proportion. It was a Saturday night, alcohol fueled brawl. Welcome to every Saturday night out in Melbourne!

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

It is never jusitfied because some one believes it happens all the time.

The billiard ball incident is neither here nor there in regard to Voss's action and does not in any justify the king hit. I dont no why you are trying to make an illogical and mystify nexus between the two. Throwing the billiard ball was a brainless act. It does not mitigate Voss.

Both the billiard ball thrower and Voss are facing police charges. Both actions were highly avoidable. Alarming weaknesses of character and judgement in both cases

[deanox 9,931]

The video shows the guy clearly throwing the ball.

Do we know how long after Voss punched him? I would suggest it was a matter of minutes.

a matter of minutes?????? this is a man who you advocate lead our team and make rationale decisions under the most strenuous pressure situations (in the coaches box) and you suggest that he needs more than minutes to make a decision not to hit someone??

the fact that he followed the other man out of the club shows that his head wasnt on straight and that he didnt respond to the pressure situation well. how does he react under pressure on match day? does he take a few minutes to make a move? will you be happy with him taking that long to make a high pressure decision? and this decision should have been clear cut. to hit a man, or not. and it is clear that this is assault, not defence.

If this situation took place between Joe Public you would never hear about it. It is such a common occurrence, guys get drunk, guys start a fight, until someone throws a pool ball and gets their head punched in. If you haven't witnessed something similar yourself, you probably haven't spent enough time on Fitzroy St.

That does not make it alright, and there is no justification for physical violence, but I think the reaction of some to the situation has been blown out of all proportion. It was a Saturday night, alcohol fueled brawl. Welcome to every Saturday night out in Melbourne!

based on that statement we should afford certain st kilda players our highest respect, even after alleged events of the past few years. because women claim to be raped every day of the week, its just a typical saturday night, alcohol fuelled decision, and because we dont hear about it when it happens to your best friend or some random woman in richmond it shouldnt matter when an afl player is involved.

its a very ignorant argument you're making jaded. you cannot claim that because it happens it should happen. which people are getting in pub fights? local footballers? tradies? im not having a go at either of those groups, but my point is it is not your typical air traffic controller, afl coach or executive CEO getting into fights. if you want the big jobs you need to be better than that. you need to hold your cool in pressure situations. and maybe you should rethink your public drinking habits.

[QueenC 74]

I don't think any of us should pretend to know the absolute reality of this situation......

Yes, we all saw the same thing, the same hit, and I am the last person to condone someone hitting out at someone, but the truth remains that unless you were there (and I am not going to hide behind this) you simply don't know what else might have happened beyond what was seen on that video.

How much provocation was involved? How much time was there between the incidents? How much happened that was not caught on camera?

And given we are basing our assumptions of Voss's character on this particular video, has it been doctored or altered in any way for media purposes?

We have absolutely no answer to that, and given no-one seems to know where the hell it came from this actuality is not completely out of the question.

But in the end Voss hit the guy. Now, he may have had his reasons, and they may have been damn good at the time, but in the cold hard light of day none of the actions of anyone involved in that brawl should be condoned (not that anyone here is condoning them) and therefore should be punished.

But there are always factors that don't get taken into account. There is no situation that is ever completely black and white, and I am sure that as this drags out further, there will be those that will use this to tear at Voss because they can now. As this is something importantly that they could never do before.

Does this put his coaching aspirations in jeopardy? Well judging by those that think this makes him suspect on a number of fronts (and many of the points brought up are right) it will do him absolutely no favours. But then again we all knew this was there before the video was released.

I do remember thinking at the time, how surprised I was that someone like a Micheal Voss (and a Simon Black, for that matter) got himself caught up in this kind of incident, given his reputation prior to this. That reputation is now damaged, but I don't think it is completely, nor permanently shot to hell.

And on a personal note, as I have said previously in this thread, I can speak first hand how these kinds of situations break out, blow up, and collect innocent casualties along the way, but it can be very hard to remain uninvolved when ("if" in this case) someone comes at you and your friends.

He did assault someone, and therefore should be punished accordingly (as should anyone in that situation). And it definitely raises some questions about whether he is ready for the position we have available, but I am not convinced that he should be written off completely just yet.

As in my opinion there is way too much that we simply don't know. About this or about him !!!

[Jaded No More 68,958]

I never justified his actions, I just don't think it is such a huge deal and IMO it should have no bearings on his appointment to coach our club.

If the club believes he is the right man for the job, than one stupid mistake shouldn't cost him his career.

And Deanox, don't compare a man throwing a punch to a man raping a woman. I certainly didn't!

[deanox 9,931]

And Deanox, don't compare a man throwing a punch to a man raping a woman. I certainly didn't!

i was making the point that you cannot argue that it happens often as an excuse for his behaviour. i was also arguing that just because you dont read about it doesnt make it serious. claiming that it was just a typical saturday night is fine. but if thats a typical saturday night for voss i don't think he'd make a very good coach. most people dont go out and get in a fight on a typical saturday night. and most people who have been punched outside a nightclub would probably argue that it caused them some serious angst.