4 hours ago, rpfc said:

I can see the optimistic side of getting buy in to a new way of playing and having a forward line that now looks balanced if not super talented.

But there will be 16 teams who will play us and underline as a game they should win.

So I can also see us needing to keep our first round pick…

Surely no team is already certain they'll beat us next year, especially this far out. I'm sure sometimes in May/June a guaranteed finalist sees a stretch in their fixture where they play struggling teams and decide to have a mini preseason. But often in the early rounds a lousy team announce themselves with a surprise win. It'd be frustrating enough for the opposition wondering theyre losing badly midgame without putting extra pressure on themselves unaware this easybeat is now their equal. (And as people have said we beat some good teams last, lost all the close ones and probably lots of unresolved issues behind closed. I'm not sure losing our underperforming stars can't at least be countered to some extent.)

1 hour ago, Demonsone said:

I don’t think Trac & Oliver were the difference, the flip flop of game plans by Goodwin which started in 24 & switched back to the 21-23 version ( by his own admission) then to a 25 reinforced he had no answers!

Not about not having the answers, it’s about not having the players. Ones who could kick for starters. It wasn’t the coaching that killed us, it was the turnovers.

7 hours ago, Go Ds said:

Surely no team is already certain they'll beat us next year, especially this far out. I'm sure sometimes in May/June a guaranteed finalist sees a stretch in their fixture where they play struggling teams and decide to have a mini preseason. But often in the early rounds a lousy team announce themselves with a surprise win. It'd be frustrating enough for the opposition wondering theyre losing badly midgame without putting extra pressure on themselves unaware this easybeat is now their equal. (And as people have said we beat some good teams last, lost all the close ones and probably lots of unresolved issues behind closed. I'm not sure losing our underperforming stars can't at least be countered to some extent.)

They’d be 16 clubs that would be saying to themselves ‘we should beat Melbourne’

We may ‘surprise’ but a new coach, a new way of playing based on skills and decision making we haven’t shown, with few established midfielders and an emerging backline - a ‘surprise’ it will be to 16 teams.

It’s just where we are at.

North beat us last year. Saints bombers did as well. We’re gone proper rebuild so bottom 4 is more likely than not.

And we should judge kingy on where we are. Inflated expectations won’t help. Positive signs game style wise and getting games into our youngsters should be the basis of assessment

33 minutes ago, rpfc said:

They’d be 16 clubs that would be saying to themselves ‘we should beat Melbourne’

We may ‘surprise’ but a new coach, a new way of playing based on skills and decision making we haven’t shown, with few established midfielders and an emerging backline - a ‘surprise’ it will be to 16 teams.

It’s just where we are at.

Which is the 17th?

25 minutes ago, Lucifers Hero said:

Which is the 17th?

Brisbane……….couldnt even beat us on their home deck.

47 minutes ago, Lucifers Hero said:

Which is the 17th?

Surely West Coast. But while in the first month supporters and board members might expect their teams to beat WCE the same as with every club every year they may possibly improve a lot over summer. (It's plain silly to already declare a team bottom 2 so far out.)

Edited 6 hours ago6 hr by Go Ds

8 minutes ago, Go Ds said:

Surely West Coast. But while in the first month supporters and board members might expect their teams to beat WCE the same as with every club every year they may possibly improve a lot over summer. (It's plain silly to already declare a team bottom 2 so far out.)

They beat us by 6 goals two years ago.

North did a job on us as well.

Our bogey in recent years has been Essendon 🤮

I reckon every team thinks that on any given day they can beat any team.

I'm curious who @rpfc left out.

fwiw, I reckon the footy world is in for a big shock when we make the finals!

8 hours ago, bing181 said:

Not about not having the answers, it’s about not having the players. Ones who could kick for starters. It wasn’t the coaching that killed us, it was the turnovers.

There may be some truth to what you say but quick ball movement (even a chaos ball) into a forward line where we weren’t outnumbered would have been a good place to start.

King has already identified that thankfully and I look forward to seeing how we go.

11 minutes ago, Lucifers Hero said:

They beat us by 6 goals two years ago.

North did a job on us as well.

Our bogey in recent years has been Essendon 🤮

I reckon every team thinks that on any given day they can beat any team.

I'm curious who @rpfc left out.

fwiw, I reckon the footy world is in for a big shock when we make the finals!

___________________

Tbh I can easily see it going either way. I just looked at a bookmakers market for next year. We're 67 dollars, as is Port, and four teams are priced longer. Carlton is a little shorter. Already that's 11 rather than 16 teams. Anyway I hope coaches and players have genuinely stopped falling for this complacency -inducing 'easybeat' nonsense. (And I doubt the yearly 'snakes and ladders' will suddenly stop.)

30 minutes ago, Lucifers Hero said:

They beat us by 6 goals two years ago.

North did a job on us as well.

Our bogey in recent years has been Essendon 🤮

I reckon every team thinks that on any given day they can beat any team.

I'm curious who @rpfc left out.

fwiw, I reckon the footy world is in for a big shock when we make the finals!

WC don’t go into games thinking they ‘should’ beat anyone.

They would be worried about Southport.

The WC games will be competitive and they will hope to beat us, but every other team will do what we did from 2021-2024 - thinking they should get the 4 points if they ‘show up.’

42 minutes ago, Lucifers Hero said:

Our bogey in recent years has been Essendon 🤮

The issue with Essendon is at Gather Round.

Otherwise we've beaten them 6 out of 7 times since 2017 (games at MCG, Marvel and Carrara).

Will this be the year we finally play them twice, since 2005?

The only people that are already writing us off are the least consequential as none of them will be adorning a jumper in opposition to us on an oval. They're just hacks pulling excrement out of theirs... in order to fill content and look knowledgeable.

King certainly won't be adopting that stance.

No coach with half a brain considers any game a given.

We might go alright... we might not ... we might go between.

No one knows yet.. especially those just writing about it.

What we WILL be is...different

Ask how many of these scribes would wager their left nut ???

I know the answer

IMO 2026 goes one of two ways.

We either find that we had midfield cover all along (plus Steele) and a new coach and game plan reinvigorate us to such an extent that we challenge for finals.

Or the transition hits hard and we finish bottom 4.

8 hours ago, bing181 said:

Not about not having the answers, it’s about not having the players. Ones who could kick for starters. It wasn’t the coaching that killed us, it was the turnovers.

Goodwin by he’s own admission said it was right that they sacked him as he’s time was up! Respect he won a premiership he’s our only living coach to achieve this, but something went astray, he’s words they couldn’t define a purpose after 21…

Our biggest problem was two part.. it was the connect off of moving the ball and putting it to advantage in the forward arc..

2nd part having ppl/system in fwd arc to utilise opportunities.

Imho 2 of the biggest culprits are no longer there.

Think about that for a moment

1 hour ago, beelzebub said:

Our biggest problem was two part.. it was the connect off of moving the ball and putting it to advantage in the forward arc..

2nd part having ppl/system in fwd arc to utilise opportunities.

Imho 2 of the biggest culprits are no longer there.

Think about that for a moment

The proof of that pudding is that we have played that way for 7 seasons - 21 was an outlier in that regard. Constantly winning clearance, contest and i50 count yet turning the ball over

And if Oliver and Tracc turned over half their possessions then maintaining possession with a new midfield can potentially be a sizeable improvement in 2026

In my view, 8 - 10 wins looks the most likely outcome for 2026 (hopefully on an upwards curve)

Reality is that we are short on real talent and our disposal skills are not of a high standard

The above can be improved upon with recruiting (and that takes time)

11 hours ago, Harvey Wallbanger said:

I don't think it's the three guys you have identified that have driven the change (not that they haven't signed off on it) - I reckon it was Green, Gawn, Viney, Richardson and Lamb who decided we can't have another locker room like 2025, and that started with Goodwin departing.

Guerra would have had a big input whilst King & Smith would have been consulted (at the very least)

Not sure on Viney or even Gawn ... Green, Lamb & Richardson sure. But how influential? We may never find out

The perspective coaching applicants were asked to present their best 23 ... did King include Clarrie & May in his team? Or even Petracca?

As for Gawn, is he such a good leader?

Putting aside the good bloke factor and Max's outstanding football ability, it was under his watch as captain when things went pear-shaped within the playing group

As for Viney, he's coming off a poor season where his ball-getting ability and disposal skills were well below par. Not sure he'd be one of those consulted on the clubs future

Edited 3 hours ago3 hr by Macca

1 hour ago, titan_uranus said:

We either find that we had midfield cover all along (plus Steele) and a new coach and game plan reinvigorate us to such an extent that we challenge for finals.

This would be quite a thing.

Which players - apart from Steele and Pickett - do you think are most likely to make it happen?

8 minutes ago, Macca said:

In my viea, 8 - 10 wins looks the most likely outcome for 2026 (hopefully on an upwards curve)

Reality is that we are short on real talent and our disposal skills are not of a high standard

The above can be improved upon with recruiting (and that takes time)

Guerra would have had a big input whilst King & Smith would have been consulted (at the very least)

Not sure on Viney or even Gawn ... Green, Lamb & Richardson sure. But how influential? We may never find out

The perspective coaching applicants were asked to present their best 23 ... did King include Clarrie & May in his team? Or even Petracca?

King was appointed on 12 September (and his duties with Geelong continued of course through to the Grand Final), long after Goodwin left. The "re-set" was almost certainly in play well before King's appointment and Oliver and Petracca's fate would have been set. Not saying King didn't endorse it, but he wasn't the architect. Surely the decision-makers asked our captain and vice-captain their views on how a team can function effectively with Oliver and Petracca still there? Same question would have been asked, and answered, re May.

6 minutes ago, Harvey Wallbanger said:

King was appointed on 12 September (and his duties with Geelong continued of course through to the Grand Final), long after Goodwin left. The "re-set" was almost certainly in play well before King's appointment and Oliver and Petracca's fate would have been set. Not saying King didn't endorse it, but he wasn't the architect. Surely the decision-makers asked our captain and vice-captain their views on how a team can function effectively with Oliver and Petracca still there? Same question would have been asked, and answered, re May.

I believe that King had a huge input into the make up of the list

i.e. those who he wanted out

41 minutes ago, Harvey Wallbanger said:

King was appointed on 12 September (and his duties with Geelong continued of course through to the Grand Final), long after Goodwin left. The "re-set" was almost certainly in play well before King's appointment and Oliver and Petracca's fate would have been set. Not saying King didn't endorse it, but he wasn't the architect. Surely the decision-makers asked our captain and vice-captain their views on how a team can function effectively with Oliver and Petracca still there? Same question would have been asked, and answered, re May.

My understanding is that King definitely had a say in the Oliver trade, but otherwise agree mate.

34 minutes ago, Adam The God said:

My understanding is that King definitely had a say in the Oliver trade, but otherwise agree mate.

Don't leave out May (or Petracca)

The Board/FD would have been rubbing their hands with glee once Trac asked to be traded

"Beauty, we'll get more for you now" (Trac) King thinking the same way as well (in my view)

3 first round picks later .......

Edited 2 hours ago2 hr by Macca

Personally I’m not really expecting anything next year and it’s kinda nice. Want to give King a year or two to get his list/game plan together and not lose my mind if we finish 14th again next year.

17 minutes ago, BoBo said:

Personally I’m not really expecting anything next year and it’s kinda nice. Want to give King a year or two to get his list/game plan together and not lose my mind if we finish 14th again next year.

What King has to deal with is that we have a lot of players who fall into the category of ok (or alright)

Take Salem, Langdon, Rivers & Viney for example

All 4 lack creativity & vision. And only 2 of the 4 are efficient ball users

Our future lies with our recruiting

Edited 1 hour ago1 hr by Macca