1 minute ago, bing181 said:

Perhaps one of the reasons we have such poor delivery into the forward line is because we have such poor forwards - or forwards who aren't exactly screaming for it or who you'd back in. The players seem to do OK at hitting up Pickett.

That’s a small sample size I think. We spotted up Pickett twice, thrice this match, prior to that Kossie was turning loose, ground ball entries into gold but that’s him. Why aren’t our key forwards leading, running zig zag patterns, working to spread the defence? I don’t know but I suspect we don’t coach it. And our small forwards are rarely front and centre for the crumb from a contested pack. Why?

At first I rolled my eyes - I was never a huge fan of Joe, way too goofy for my liking.

But if he didn't cost much (picks wise), despite being a year retired and one of the more unreliable players even at his best he would still be better than what we have now. If it meant JVR could stay forward while Daniher pinch hits in the ruck and he takes the oppositions best defender while playing forward leaving JVR, Fritsch, Melksham (?) space to work it would be worth a stab.

We don't need a superstar KPF, we need a solid, big body that can take a mark and play backup to Gawn. If Daniher could be got for basically nothing then it's worth a shot, not like our list is bursting at the seams. There's about a quarter of the list we could cut tomorrow to free up a spot and no-one would notice.

haha. such a typical Melbourne move. but you cannot fault them for trying.

Still tells me that the club is completely unaware of the significance of the kicking skills going inside 50.

If we had Budy, Riewoldt x2 and Joe all at their prime in our forward line, we still wouldn't kick more than 80 points.

Just now, GS_1905 said:

haha. such a typical Melbourne move. but you cannot fault them for trying.

Still tells me that the club is completely unaware of the significance of the kicking skills going inside 50.

If we had Budy, Riewoldt x2 and Joe all at their prime in our forward line, we still wouldn't kick more than 80 points.

So true

1 hour ago, Earl Hood said:

I still believe with much better delivery and much better forward craft and teamwork that we could construct a very serviceable forward line from the following - Fritsch, Kossie, Turner, Melksham, Petty, Chandler, Spargo, JVR, Jefferson, Tracc, Langford

Sadly a number of those you mention are serial offenders in the poor delivery department.

I think our first priority should be going after Allen I know he's favoured to go to Brisbane but money talks and Allen would want some big coin as would Daniher to come out of retirement.

2 hours ago, KozzyCan said:

Genuinely one of the dumbest ideas I've ever seen a footy club actually consider.

Embarrassing and desperate from a list management team that hasn't been able to lure anyone of note for 5 years.

Maybe it just highlights the growing struggles of smaller clubs in a free agency system - big clubs get the pick of the crop and everyone else has to battle it out for the scraps (eg Fullarton) OR have to think outside the square (eg Daniher, SSP ex basketballers etc) to compete.

We need proper forward coaching that's coordinated with midfield coaching, I thought that was the intention here!?

Unless we have a better alternative, which we currently don’t, I’d be all for it

8 hours ago, The Jackson FIX said:

Maybe it just highlights the growing struggles of smaller clubs in a free agency system - big clubs get the pick of the crop and everyone else has to battle it out for the scraps (eg Fullarton) OR have to think outside the square (eg Daniher, SSP ex basketballers etc) to compete.

Big clubs have and will always have that advantage.

Hawks are a medium sized club who have no trouble luring players.

We traded very well between 2014-2018

Well listen to the storey bout a man named Jed, poor mountaineer but he kept his family fed and then one day he was shootin for some food and up from the ground came a bubblin crude, oil that is black gold Texas Teed! Well the next thing you know old Jeds a millionare,family said hell move away from here, California is the place y ought to be, so they loaded up the truck and moved to Beverley, hils that is swimming pools movie stars!!!

This thread is like this!

I am absolutely convinced that the issue isn't the players we have. It's the system and structure.

1. Fritsch is an established 50-60 goal a year forward

2. Melksham has proven he can kick a bag on multiple occasions across multiple weeks

3. Chandler, JVR, Jefferson are works in progress and may not work but have all demonstrated at one point or another some capability and competency.

4. There is a big drop after that but Petracca and Pickett are both established goal kickers themselves when give the chance to roam forward. It doesn't happen enough.

This attempt to get Daniher is telling me a few things.

1. The coaching and list Management teams think it's a personnel issue. I am all for getting more talent in but if we are worried about our future after Gawn and even Melksham, Daniher must clearly then be only a 1-2 year proposition.

2. Goodwin and co. believe we are still in the window for a flag and can top up with experienced talent.

If we go down this route and it doesn't work I really hope people are prepared for years in the wilderness because we stand to lose young talent in the process.

13 minutes ago, picket fence said:

Well listen to the storey bout a man named Jed, poor mountaineer but he kept his family fed and then one day he was shootin for some food and up from the ground came a bubblin crude, oil that is black gold Texas Teed! Well the next thing you know old Jeds a millionare,family said hell move away from here, California is the place y ought to be, so they loaded up the truck and moved to Beverley, hils that is swimming pools movie stars!!!

This thread is like this!

I don't know about Jethro, but he certainly could be the latter-day re-incarnation of Big Bob Johnston, who like The Clampetts went west for a better life.

10 minutes ago, praha said:

I am absolutely convinced that the issue isn't the players we have. It's the system and structure.

1. Fritsch is an established 50-60 goal a year forward

2. Melksham has proven he can kick a bag on multiple occasions across multiple weeks

3. Chandler, JVR, Jefferson are works in progress and may not work but have all demonstrated at one point or another some capability and competency.

4. There is a big drop after that but Petracca and Pickett are both established goal kickers themselves when give the chance to roam forward. It doesn't happen enough.

This attempt to get Daniher is telling me a few things.

1. The coaching and list Management teams think it's a personnel issue. I am all for getting more talent in but if we are worried about our future after Gawn and even Melksham, Daniher must clearly then be only a 1-2 year proposition.

2. Goodwin and co. believe we are still in the window for a flag and can top up with experienced talent.

If we go down this route and it doesn't work I really hope people are prepared for years in the wilderness because we stand to lose young talent in the process.

Of course its the system/game/plan/coaching

But 'they' can't fix that. Let's go for something different ... reminds me of a Monkey and a cork. That too involves Elephants... and that too is about a whole lotta 💩

All this says to me quite frankly is... Brains Trust ( has none ) can't see the real proble for the trees . It seemingly understands , lucidly or accidentally, that it's unable to fix what needs fixing.

11 hours ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

At first I rolled my eyes - I was never a huge fan of Joe, way too goofy for my liking.

But if he didn't cost much (picks wise), despite being a year retired and one of the more unreliable players even at his best he would still be better than what we have now. If it meant JVR could stay forward while Daniher pinch hits in the ruck and he takes the oppositions best defender while playing forward leaving JVR, Fritsch, Melksham (?) space to work it would be worth a stab.

We don't need a superstar KPF, we need a solid, big body that can take a mark and play backup to Gawn. If Daniher could be got for basically nothing then it's worth a shot, not like our list is bursting at the seams. There's about a quarter of the list we could cut tomorrow to free up a spot and no-one would notice.

Mirror my thoughts exactly, even down to the verbatim.

Despite baulking initially, I think almost anyone would be an improvement to what we already have. At the very least, structurally having his body in the F50 would likely mean that Melksham, Fritsch, JVR or Jefferson (whatever combo we're running with), all move into the second, third, fourth forward role etc which is probably more to their strength (and our benefit).

Now I'm not for a moment advocating that this move will win us a flag; we're nowhere near being the Demons of 2021 and I would have BBB substantially ahead of Sleepy Joe. But this type of acquisition would likely give us some structure and allow us to play a more coherent game when entering the F50, at least prima facie (I'm still very sceptical regarding our movement into the F50 and our ability to hit a target - but that's another issue).

1 minute ago, BLWNBA said:

Mirror my thoughts exactly, even down to the verbatim.

Despite baulking initially, I think almost anyone would be an improvement to what we already have. At the very least, structurally having his body in the F50 would likely mean that Melksham, Fritsch, JVR or Jefferson (whatever combo we're running with), all move into the second, third, fourth forward role etc which is probably more to their strength (and our benefit).

Now I'm not for a moment advocating that this move will win us a flag; we're nowhere near being the Demons of 2021 and I would have BBB substantially ahead of Sleepy Joe. But this type of acquisition would likely give us some structure and allow us to play a more coherent game when entering the F50, at least prima facie (I'm still very sceptical regarding our movement into the F50 and our ability to hit a target - but that's another issue).

Food for thought.

Revisit how Essendon played and delivered to Joe

Revisit how Lions play and delivered to Joe.

Revisit how we play

19 minutes ago, praha said:

I am absolutely convinced that the issue isn't the players we have. It's the system and structure.

1. Fritsch is an established 50-60 goal a year forward

2. Melksham has proven he can kick a bag on multiple occasions across multiple weeks

3. Chandler, JVR, Jefferson are works in progress and may not work but have all demonstrated at one point or another some capability and competency.

4. There is a big drop after that but Petracca and Pickett are both established goal kickers themselves when give the chance to roam forward. It doesn't happen enough.

This attempt to get Daniher is telling me a few things.

1. The coaching and list Management teams think it's a personnel issue. I am all for getting more talent in but if we are worried about our future after Gawn and even Melksham, Daniher must clearly then be only a 1-2 year proposition.

2. Goodwin and co. believe we are still in the window for a flag and can top up with experienced talent.

If we go down this route and it doesn't work I really hope people are prepared for years in the wilderness because we stand to lose young talent in the process.

Potentially. I guess they're thinking that our results against the top 3-4 are very competitive and it's our pathetic and inconsistent results against the weaker sides in the competition that is the gap between being a top 4-6 side and being a bottom 4-6 side.

On evidence, this is rational. But is it the younger players creating the inconsistency in performance or is it the inability of the older players to execute consistently that is driving inconsistent results?

If it's the latter, trading in older guys like Daniher, who I'd also consider a bit flakey, will only exacerbate the problem. But if it's the former, then there is a world where increasing the experience in the forwardline increases our chance of performing more consistently.

It's difficult to gauge at this point.

I'd suggest it could even be a combination of both, in which case it's hard to know when things could click (if at all).

Talk about being desperate

40 minutes ago, praha said:

I am absolutely convinced that the issue isn't the players we have. It's the system and structure.

1. Fritsch is an established 50-60 goal a year forward

2. Melksham has proven he can kick a bag on multiple occasions across multiple weeks

3. Chandler, JVR, Jefferson are works in progress and may not work but have all demonstrated at one point or another some capability and competency.

4. There is a big drop after that but Petracca and Pickett are both established goal kickers themselves when give the chance to roam forward. It doesn't happen enough.

This attempt to get Daniher is telling me a few things.

1. The coaching and list Management teams think it's a personnel issue. I am all for getting more talent in but if we are worried about our future after Gawn and even Melksham, Daniher must clearly then be only a 1-2 year proposition.

2. Goodwin and co. believe we are still in the window for a flag and can top up with experienced talent.

If we go down this route and it doesn't work I really hope people are prepared for years in the wilderness because we stand to lose young talent in the process.

We are already staring at years in the wilderness The only people who don't know it are the board, Footy department and some Goody acolytes on here.

Just now, Demonland said:

Swans will/would win this by a country mile

(New South country miles to be precise 😉 )

Edited July 21Jul 21 by beelzebub

24 minutes ago, beelzebub said:

Food for thought.

Revisit how Essendon played and delivered to Joe

Revisit how Lions play and delivered to Joe.

Revisit how we play

Goodwin is still trying to find a replacement for Brown. We simply haven't recovered from losing Jackson and then Brown. There is no plan B.

26 minutes ago, Adam The God said:

Potentially. I guess they're thinking that our results against the top 3-4 are very competitive and it's our pathetic and inconsistent results against the weaker sides in the competition that is the gap between being a top 4-6 side and being a bottom 4-6 side.

On evidence, this is rational. But is it the younger players creating the inconsistency in performance or is it the inability of the older players to execute consistently that is driving inconsistent results?

If it's the latter, trading in older guys like Daniher, who I'd also consider a bit flakey, will only exacerbate the problem. But if it's the former, then there is a world where increasing the experience in the forwardline increases our chance of performing more consistently.

It's difficult to gauge at this point.

I'd suggest it could even be a combination of both, in which case it's hard to know when things could click (if at all).

We've had some great performances this year against genuine contenders and probably should have beaten GWS and Collingwood. Even Hawthorn was up for grabs. But that is really a bare minimum for this squad. If Goodwin and co really think Daniher is the critical missing piece then they are delusional.

8 minutes ago, praha said:

We've had some great performances this year against genuine contenders and probably should have beaten GWS and Collingwood. Even Hawthorn was up for grabs. But that is really a bare minimum for this squad. If Goodwin and co really think Daniher is the critical missing piece then they are delusional.

Yep, or in other words "it's the midfield, stupid"

12 hours ago, KozzyCan said:

Genuinely one of the dumbest ideas I've ever seen a footy club actually consider.

Embarrassing and desperate from a list management team that hasn't been able to lure anyone of note for 5 years.

Totally agree.

If there's any truth to this, it [censored] infuriates me.

This is doubling down on the delusion that we're so close. This is Dan Houston times infinity.