2 hours ago, Fat Tony said:

2 The draft is not efficent. Geelong have had no top 5 picks in 25 years. They are perpetually good because they recruit well with lower picks and manage their salary cap ruthlessly.

This view has to be challenged.

It could be argued that Geelong’s list strategy is precisely why they've struggled to win a flag having been at the top for all this time.

We've won the same number of flags since 2012. And we built through the draft and then topped up strategically with Lever, May and Langdon, plus the 2019 draft.

Geelong don't have enough quality. This is down to list management.

Edited 6 hours ago6 hr by Adam The God

17 hours ago, Ted Lasso said:

I’d be really curious to know what changes trac actually demanded within the football club that were driving his unhappiness or if it’s simply we aren’t in a position to contend and that’s what he wants to do.

It feels like things have just gone downhill since Gus retired for the MFC. That felt like the beginning of the end sadly

At the hands of Maynard and Moore. Two Collingwood players with ties to us, Moore's dad won a Brownlow with us and Maynard's brother and dad were at Melb as player and employee. It irks me no end that Maynard didn't get rubbed out and that Moore had to stick his knee out. It also irks me that Petracca was overly friendly to Maynard after it too.

Any draft picks right now aren't worth a whole lot, very compromised, I was at least happy to hear Tim Lamb say this very clearly that we aren't in this years draft very much on purpose.

6 minutes ago, Adam The God said:

This view has to be challenged.

It could be argued that Geelong’s list strategy is precisely why they've struggled to win a flag having been at the top for all this time.

We've won the same number of flags since 2012.

Geelong don't have enough quality. This is down to list management.

You cannot seriously be arguing that the draft is efficient? North and WCE have been at the bottom forever and are still stuck there. My argument is that clubs can recruit good players with lower picks and we should not fall for the trap of always trying to get up higher in the draft because there is a cost to it.

Winning flags takes a combination of luck and strategy and should not be the only measure of optimal strategy. Our optimal strategy now is to be patient and let Taylor earn his money and find good players in hidden places like the Cats did with Holmes, Mannah, Dempsy, Blicavs, Close, Stewart, Guthrie and Neale.

We went for the flag in 2022-2024 and now we take our medicine.

10 minutes ago, Young Angus said:

Any draft picks right now aren't worth a whole lot, very compromised, I was at least happy to hear Tim Lamb say this very clearly that we aren't in this years draft very much on purpose.

Well we better hit the jackpot in 2026 because the 2027 draft will (with Tasmania entering) be a disaster for clubs such as MFC

1 minute ago, Fat Tony said:

You cannot seriously be arguing that the draft is efficient? North and WCE have been at the bottom forever and are still stuck there. My argument is that clubs can recruit good players with lower picks and we should not fall for the trap of always trying to get up higher in the draft because there is a cost to it.

Winning flags takes a combination of luck and strategy and should not be the only measure of optimal strategy. Our optimal strategy now is to be patient and let Taylor earn his money and find good players in hidden places like the Cats did with Holmes, Mannah, Dempsy, Blicavs, Close, Stewart, Guthrie and Neale.

We went for the flag in 2022-2024 and now we take our medicine.

I'm arguing that the top of the draft enables you to get the best players, even more so if you're not a big club like us.

And we disagree on the later picks. Sure, you might be able to nab a Tom McDonald in the 50s or a Stewart in the 40s, but the vast majority of the time, the most rational and sensible approach is to target the top of the draft.

As for taking our medicine, we've been rejigging and restocking our list for the best part of two years already. We've brought in 6 first rounders since the end of 2021.

List builds are evolutions and always evolving. We are continuing to evolve our list. It looks like we might have a step or two back next year, but the game style clicking under King at some point next year is the x factor.

If it clicks, Trac goes this year, we get Flanders and say Soligo, and can go after big FAs at the end of 2026, or we go back to the draft again, despite its compromised nature.

2 minutes ago, Adam The God said:

I'm arguing that the top of the draft enables you to get the best players, even more so if you're not a big club like us.

And we disagree on the later picks. Sure, you might be able to nab a Tom McDonald in the 50s or a Stewart in the 40s, but the vast majority of the time, the most rational and sensible approach is to target the top of the draft.

As for taking our medicine, we've been rejigging and restocking our list for the best part of two years already. We've brought in 6 first rounders since the end of 2021.

List builds are evolutions and always evolving. We are continuing to evolve our list. It looks like we might have a step or two back next year, but the game style clicking under King at some point next year is the x factor.

If it clicks, Trac goes this year, we get Flanders and say Soligo, and can go after big FAs at the end of 2026, or we go back to the draft again, despite its compromised nature.

It's so funny to hear people who don't think the draft is an effective way of building a premiership list.

of the 2021 flag.

Petracca, Oliver, Viney, Salem, Harmes, Fritsch, Kozzie, Jackson, Gawn, McDonald, Bowey, Rivers, Neal-Bullen, Spargo, Jordan, Sparrow, Brayshaw, Petty

All drafted by the MFC.

that means that our 2021 flag was 18/23 players that we drafted and developed ourselves.

Not only is the draft the most effective way of building a premiership team, it's the backbone of ANY successful list build

where it fails is when teams draft poorly, don't develop players and have terrible leadership and culture in the lockerroom

Edited 6 hours ago6 hr by dazzledavey36

42 minutes ago, Adam The God said:

This view has to be challenged.

It could be argued that Geelong’s list strategy is precisely why they've struggled to win a flag having been at the top for all this time.

We've won the same number of flags since 2012. And we built through the draft and then topped up strategically with Lever, May and Langdon, plus the 2019 draft.

Geelong don't have enough quality. This is down to list management.

They work miracles to stay up without an official academy, no significant father sons (for the first time in yonks after getting huge advantages there) and no early picks.

But the one year they got across the line it was soon after an influx in elite talent in Cameron, Stengle and Isaac Smith. Most years they just restock here and there. But if they a star and some quality they leap right up. Bailey Smith was another who boosted them along.

2 minutes ago, Adam The God said:

I'm arguing that the top of the draft enables you to get the best players, even more so if you're not a big club like us.

And we disagree on the later picks. Sure, you might be able to nab a Tom McDonald in the 50s or a Stewart in the 40s, but the vast majority of the time, the most rational and sensible approach is to target the top of the draft.

As for taking our medicine, we've been rejigging and restocking our list for the best part of two years already. We've brought in 6 first rounders since the end of 2021.

List builds are evolutions and always evolving. We are continuing to evolve our list. It looks like we might have a step or two back next year, but the game style clicking under King at some point next year is the x factor.

If it clicks, Trac goes this year, we get Flanders and say Soligo, and can go after big FAs at the end of 2026, or we go back to the draft again, despite its compromised nature.

It is fine to pick at the top of the draft if you own the pick but the effective interest rate to buy into the current year's draft is 30-40%. It doesn't make sense for us to be impatient now that we are not competing for a premiership.

The game is rigged in favour of Collingwood, Geelong, Sydney, GWS, Brisbane and Gold Coast.

I would doubt we have the room to go for Flanders, Soligo and go after big FAs in 2026. Kossie and Oliver are both on huge money.

We need to maintain optionality and make us attractive enough to attract players without overpaying them.

We are playing a perpetual game, not a one off.

I'd say we are stuck between a rock and a hard place, due to 1. Our trending form line (some will say we are in a little blip but many will say it'll get worse before it gets better) 2. FA, and connected to this, 3. Tasmania.

Point 1: If we trade Trac for no player return we end up poorer in 2026, no matter what people say about his kicking. For a club our size, our best selling point is its potential for success ie. Greenshoots on field; trending up. If we can't show that, then I don't like our chances of getting people in short term. Pessimistic I know.

Points 2 and 3: We aren't keen on this draft, and it is so compromised. 2026 I have no idea, but it feels a long wait! I'm confident though that even with salary cap space from say a Trac trade, noone will be taking that money if we end up poorer in 2026. Ask Norf how it's going for them. And then you have Tasmania ready to splash the bonus cash and take the Free Agents in the near future that we'd also be keen on.

What I think was most concerning about this year was the majority of our playing list either flatlined or regressed. A new coach and style can change this quickly, which makes us a genuine enigma for next year.

Guess this is all moot anyway because the AFL is so heavily manipulated that I don't even know which way is up anymore.

10 minutes ago, Ted Lasso said:

It's so funny to hear people who don't think the draft is an effective way of building a premiership list.

of the 2021 flag.

Petracca, Oliver, Viney, Salem, Harmes, Fritsch, Kozzie, Jackson, Gawn, McDonald, Bowey, Rivers, Neal-Bullen, Spargo, Jordan, Sparrow, Brayshaw, Petty

All drafted by the MFC.

that means that our 2021 flag was 18/23 players that we drafted and developed ourselves.

Not only is the draft the most effective way of building a premiership team, it's the backbone of ANY successful list build

where it fails is when teams draft poorly, don't develop players and have terrible leadership and culture in the lockerroom

Who is arguing the draft is not the most effective way? I am just saying you can get elite players without high picks (like Gawn, Harmes, McDonald, Bowey, Rivers, Neal-Bullen, Spargo, Jordan, Sparrow, Petty).

8 minutes ago, Ted Lasso said:

Not only is the draft the most effective way of building a premiership team, it's the backbone of ANY successful list build

where it fails is when teams draft poorly, don't develop players and have terrible leadership and culture in the lockerroom

That’s the issue. To get the real game changing talents more often than not you need to be bottom 4.

Building around nice picks in the 8-12 range of the draft often won’t really help you.

And to get those top 5 picks you have to stink. Even more so now that so many of the elite talents are taken out of draft order by father son and academies.

North haven’t developed players well or even chosen the right guys at times but not having access to the true top line talent (apart from JHF) has really set them back.

You can rebuild without the very top picks. Hawks have done it with Will Day (mid first) and Newcombe (mid season and Covid related) as their best 2 players. But it takes the ability to attract and retain guys like Amon, Impey, Gunston (going and coming back), Sicily or you’ll be stuck in no man’s land.

Just now, DeeSpencer said:

That’s the issue. To get the real game changing talents more often than not you need to be bottom 4.

Building around nice picks in the 8-12 range of the draft often won’t really help you.

And to get those top 5 picks you have to stink. Even more so now that so many of the elite talents are taken out of draft order by father son and academies.

North haven’t developed players well or even chosen the right guys at times but not having access to the true top line talent (apart from JHF) has really set them back.

You can rebuild without the very top picks. Hawks have done it with Will Day (mid first) and Newcombe (mid season and Covid related) as their best 2 players. But it takes the ability to attract and retain guys like Amon, Impey, Gunston (going and coming back), Sicily or you’ll be stuck in no man’s land.

Correct. this is why a unified direction is what seperates successful and unsuccessful clubs. Richmond know this so what have they done, won 3 flags, then bottomed out hard and gotten as many high end picks as possible.

We've bought in 4 top 12 picks in the last 2 years.

Regeneration comes from top 12-15 picks and getting a whole group of them to bring through, then once that ground is in the 50-70 games range and you're starting to see the wheel turn you hit free agency and plug the gaps to complete the puzzle.

the challenge teams like the Saints, Dogs, Blues and co have is they sort of exist in that middle space where they don't fully embrace pain, so they never properly build in a way that allows success.

8 hours ago, dimmy said:

I am really confused about how a person can sign a contract for x amount of years for $$$ .

He the wants out , BUT the Club (i.e.MFC in this case) are duty bound to continue to pay that player.

Could someone please explain how we could be paying a "wantouta" or "renegger" his salary and getting nothing back.

What is the point of a legal contract ????

The AFL don’t have any rules around ‘tampering’ ie. stopping contracted players meeting with rival teams.

We can try to shut down any trade talk and can hold him to his deal. But we can’t stop him meeting with anyone he wants to meet with.

Bailey Humphrey come on down!

20 minutes ago, dazzledavey36 said:

Has the guy got his own travelling press corp?

Next stop the Goldie on the Brand & Brandgelina Royal Tour.

22 minutes ago, Fat Tony said:

I would doubt we have the room to go for Flanders, Soligo and go after big FAs in 2026. Kossie and Oliver are both on huge money.

If we're going after a big FA in 2026, we won't have Trac. And there is no way he leaves without his new club paying the majority, if not all, of his contract. We'll have plenty of cap to spend.

Petracca absolutely embarrassed himself last year using the media to leak he has no choice but to leave last year when trying to get a move

was made very clear to him by his management that he’ll have to force a deal because Melbourne won’t agree to one and he acted like a prat

it’s clear now that he’s doing it again to create a Merrett situation where he has to taint us to make his position untenable because the 2 clubs he’s chosen to nominate don’t have much to satisfy us in a trade

8 minutes ago, Young Angus said:

Bailey Humphrey come on down!

It would be kind of like trading out a 29 year old Petracca for a 21 year old Petracca (Trac and Humphey both kicked 25 odd goals a year at about the same age)

But alas, clubs in the window will simply not be trading out their best dozen players in the pursuit of a star such as Trac. It would be counter intuitive to acquire a star in exchange for subtracting a star.

This is why, in my opinion, we will either accept unders by way of draft picks or the player in question returns to his club next year (with a potential tail between leg pending a reset of attitude).

4 hours ago, PaulRB said:

I didn’t mention they would. However, if gaining pick 6 & 7 required we pay 500k of Tracs salary for a couple of years we’d still be ahead financially as we’d be paying the two kids (pick 6 and 7) well less than what remains.

I'd be making it clear to Trac that if the club he wants to get to isn't prepared to pay his full salary + provide us with adequate compensation then it is up to him to renegotiate a lower salary with his chosen club. By the looks of it Trac seems to be approaching seeking a change in a mature manner and the club seem pretty clear about what the compensation would need to look like.

One nuance with paying a portion of Trac's salary is taking into account the structure of the deal and where it is heavily back ended it is probably fair for us to chip in a bit so that he is paid fairpy foe his service to us. The reverse of this should also hold where if the contract was front ended then he probably should pay us back some of the money and negotiate a larger deal with the new club.

14 minutes ago, Bring-Back-Powell said:

It would be kind of like trading out a 29 year old Petracca for a 21 year old Petracca (Trac and Humphey both kicked 25 odd goals a year at about the same age)

But alas, clubs in the window will simply not be trading out their best dozen players in the pursuit of a star such as Trac. It would be counter intuitive to acquire a star in exchange for subtracting a star.

This is why, in my opinion, we will either accept unders by way of draft picks or the player in question returns to his club next year (with a potential tail between leg pending a reset of attitude).

I'd rather Trac come back then accept the metaphorical bag of chips. Clubs want good players in - something good has to go the other way. Dogs being basically forced to accept unders for Sniff was ridiculous. The media do a lot of work for particular clubs in this space.

17 minutes ago, Bring-Back-Powell said:

It would be kind of like trading out a 29 year old Petracca for a 21 year old Petracca (Trac and Humphey both kicked 25 odd goals a year at about the same age)

But alas, clubs in the window will simply not be trading out their best dozen players in the pursuit of a star such as Trac. It would be counter intuitive to acquire a star in exchange for subtracting a star.

This is why, in my opinion, we will either accept unders by way of draft picks or the player in question returns to his club next year (with a potential tail between leg pending a reset of attitude).

I definitely agree that it won't be Bailey Humphrey, but i think we'll find a way to get a deal done involving some combo of picks and young players that we like.

I am still really hopefully it'll be pick 6 and Sam Flanders for Trac essentially.

It will be interesting to see how Petracca reacts to finding out he is worth Less than he thinks he is.

Edited 5 hours ago5 hr by red and blue forever

Elliott sticks with the filth

That’ll be why Trac is now flying to GC17 for a face to face