20 hours ago, praha said:

I agree. This is a top 8 side. Last night's performance was embarrassing. Even as the best team. The entire past 12 months has been a huge dent on Goodwin's legacy. We have lost all respect that we built across 2021-2023. The real concern is our window is shutting quickly. Goodwin will coach next year but if it doesn't turn around he's done.

Sorry to tell you Praha but that window's been shut a while now.

42 minutes ago, BLWNBA said:

Viney shouldn't even be in the best 22 by end of year if we were on the ideal trajectory, IMO

Harsh but fair.

If not the end of this year, certainly the middle of next. Same goes for Lever, and - I know it's highly implotic to say it on here - for Langdon.

Rebuild? Dees cannot afford to bottom out.

• Tassie still likely to come in and will take premier draft picks across two drafts at least

• Our revenue is still low with 2025 membership figures estimated at 56000 in 2025 (down from 65000 on 2024) (down from 70000 in 2023) … I think we are now below Dogs and Saints ( only ahead of Kangas for Vic clubs)

• Relevance? We are already quiet on the AFL agenda except for negative noise around culture and players leaving

• The FIXture. We would be given dead end time slots, even worse than 2025.

• Our last rebuild saw us miss finals for 12 years.

• We need to bounce back NOW and not be satisfied that we were 2021 🏆premiers. Why are we so comfortable with one flag , played in WA , that we all move on in silence

4 minutes ago, spirit of norm smith said:

Rebuild? Dees cannot afford to bottom out.

• Tassie still likely to come in and will take premier draft picks across two drafts at least

• Our revenue is still low with 2025 membership figures estimated at 56000 in 2025 (down from 65000 on 2024) (down from 70000 in 2023) … I think we are now below Dogs and Saints ( only ahead of Kangas for Vic clubs)

• Relevance? We are already quiet on the AFL agenda except for negative noise around culture and players leaving

• The FIXture. We would be given dead end time slots, even worse than 2025.

• Our last rebuild saw us miss finals for 12 years.

• We need to bounce back NOW and not be satisfied that we were 2021 🏆premiers. Why are we so comfortable with one flag , played in WA , that we all move on in silence

2 of our "Best" players need to pull their fingers out for a start.
Kicking back on their fat pay checks.
Kozzie decides to do the same thing over the next couple yrs we're doomed.
DOOMED I tell ya.

Edited July 21Jul 21 by Fork 'em

1 hour ago, BLWNBA said:

The Viney extension off the back of a preliminary chat with North, was one of the greatest sh*t the bed moments the club has had over the past ten years. Of all of the extensions we've given, this one was the most unpalatable. Ideally, Viney shouldn't even be in the best 22 by end of year if we were on the ideal trajectory, IMO.

Unpalatable then, or unpalatable now?

I don't recall many being too upset at the time. Very easy to say now.

The rapid deterioration of our "A Graders" (apart from Max) has been very concerning for me....

Clarry has turned into a pretty good tagger and a useful mid, but for the cash he is on, I'd expect more. I love the bloke, but I reckon its time to test his trade value and start prepping Langford to take his spot.

Trac is probably still recovering from last year. Again, I hope that he is able to become more damaging next year. Maybe work on his kicking?

Viney is probably in the same boat as Clarry. I dont think we can get rid of both though.

Lever definitely looks crocked and isn't getting any quicker.

May has probably played his last game for us (concussion + suspension + recovery).

... so that is 3 out of 5 likely gone. We have Kozzie who is already an "A Grader" and Bowey and Langford look very close to getting there. Turner definitely could get there.

We do need more polish and another "A Grader" - but how or who for?

As for the rest of our senior players:

TMac is almost definitely gone at seasons end, unless May and Lever both go (maybe).

Melksham looks super fit and has shown the importance of knowing forward craft and having a footy IQ. Should be kept on at all costs to teach the kids.

Fritta has hit some good form and I hope he can keep it going for at least another couple of years like Breust.

Petty seems to have plateaued, I hope he can rediscover form as a key defender in Mays absence.

I hope Sparrow recovers.

Langdon continues to be a role player. Hasn't been as damaging since being moved off the wing.

Rivers & Chandler (not that senior) & Salem are playing roles, sometimes very well. Spargo has been out & McVee hasn't been accountable.

Our young players are a bit of a mixed bag. My big concern is lack of player development this season, Windsor and Kolt seem to have gone backwards - though that may be due to interrupted pre seasons.

JVR seems to be going well after a poor start. Shows application and is promising.

Jeffo is building in confidence and obviously cares. More game time will help, as will time in the gym. We'll know more in a year. Same for Lindsay and Luker (who I'm very excited about).

AMW will provide a small defender with pace next season. Howes too.

Sestan is a quality distributor and a smart footballer - could play almost anywhere. Could definitely be a handy finisher. Mentha too.

....so yeah, we have the same supportive-senior playing group as a lot of clubs, though aging and not really developing.

We also have some good young players, some very good, just need the right team to bring them up.

37 minutes ago, JTR said:

Unpalatable then, or unpalatable now?

I don't recall many being too upset at the time. Very easy to say now.

At the time, unless you were a fanboy.

On 20/07/2025 at 11:35, YesitwasaWin4theAges said:

2 players need to be moved on for the right draft capital.

Either couple from this list.

Fritta, Lever, Clarry, Viney,

It needs to happen, we need to get back into the 1st round of the draft this year.

It hurts, it will hurt but we need top end talent coming through the door yearly.

Of those 4 names mentioned Fritta and Clarry hold the most value obviously but a Viney and Lever combo could help Norf culturally.

I think Fritta in his current form is a must keep, he’s getting 20+ disposals with goals per week now.

Certainly at the start of the year until mid year I’d have wanted him gone.

21 minutes ago, SadDee said:

I think Fritta in his current form is a must keep, he’s getting 20+ disposals with goals per week now.

Certainly at the start of the year until mid year I’d have wanted him gone.

Yeah his output has been good recently, definitely trending upwards. I guess he's definitely seeking a trade 🤣

Everyone remember what happened to West Coast after 2018? Most of their stars continued to play years after but were absolutely hopeless and that started the absolute joke of a team that they have today.

Whilst it’s not an exact comparison to our current state as we are brining in good talent. It’s hard not to see some similarities in the drop off of their top liners.

The comparison in journey between Tigers and WC was made on radio today and how the Tigers made a decision to cut deep to quickly rejuvenate the list whilst WC seem to prioritise their senior players . The Tiger got rid of Bolton, D. Rioli , Baker and got a number of solid first round picks. They probably made some mistakes brining in Taranto and Hopper in and should have gone to the draft in hindsight.

I think we have to take these lessons and look to bank some picks this year and next wherever we can.

Hoping our players like Lever, May, Trac and Oliver will turn things around is becoming less likely with every game we play. I thought 2024 was a ‘refuel’ type year but with our 2025 I think it’s safe to say we are now on a downward trend and have yet to hit rock bottom. We need to take some drastic action to minimise the time we spend down here and give ourselves an opportunity to have a tilt before the end of the decade.

As has been said plenty of times before, Trac and Oliver are not likely to get us much. We’d be lucky to get a first rounder - I hope they show something in the last six weeks but unlikely. Fritta may get us a late 1st. Same with river and Lever. I’d be hellbent getting rid of anyone under 23 as they are the future.

As for trade targets, it’s not the time for pursuing trades unless they are FA. But for FA to come to the Dees we’d need to pay significant overs, which we probably don’t have the capacity to do with our current crop.

It’s becoming a bit of nightmare scenario.

Edited July 21Jul 21 by GS_1905

5 hours ago, JTR said:

Unpalatable then, or unpalatable now?

I don't recall many being too upset at the time. Very easy to say now.

Upset might have been a bit strong... some were well, somewhat dismayed. I think we've been far too quick to knee-[censored] on many occasions. Been very inconsistent at it too.

We have to wear it now.

Edit... seriously.. that was censored ?? 😆

Edited July 21Jul 21 by beelzebub

2 hours ago, GS_1905 said:

Everyone remember what happened to West Coast after 2018? Most of their stars continued to play years after but were absolutely hopeless and that started the absolute joke of a team that they have today.

Whilst it’s not an exact comparison to our current state as we are brining in good talent. It’s hard not to see some similarities in the drop off of their top liners.

The comparison in journey between Tigers and WC was made on radio today and how the Tigers made a decision to cut deep to quickly rejuvenate the list whilst WC seem to prioritise their senior players . The Tiger got rid of Bolton, D. Rioli , Baker and got a number of solid first round picks. They probably made some mistakes brining in Taranto and Hopper in and should have gone to the draft in hindsight.

I think we have to take these lessons and look to bank some picks this year and next wherever we can.

Hoping our players like Lever, May, Trac and Oliver will turn things around is becoming less likely with every game we play. I thought 2024 was a ‘refuel’ type year but with our 2025 I think it’s safe to say we are now on a downward trend and have yet to hit rock bottom. We need to take some drastic action to minimise the time we spend down here and give ourselves an opportunity to have a tilt before the end of the decade.

As has been said plenty of times before, Trac and Oliver are not likely to get us much. We’d be lucky to get a first rounder - I hope they show something in the last six weeks but unlikely. Fritta may get us a late 1st. Same with river and Lever. I’d be hellbent getting rid of anyone under 23 as they are the future.

As for trade targets, it’s not the time for pursuing trades unless they are FA. But for FA to come to the Dees we’d need to pay significant overs, which we probably don’t have the capacity to do with our current crop.

It’s becoming a bit of nightmare scenario.

Becoming the new West Coast is worst case scenario but unfortunately it seems the club is determined to go down this path

It doesn’t help that we have a coach in survival mode and an FD who thinks we’re just one preseason away from our stars getting form and our gameplan “clicking”

Even our reported play for Joe Daniher - as much as I love him as a player and think he would be a great get for cheap - signals to me that the club wants to retain our senior players and “go again” next year without significantly turning over the list

Edited July 21Jul 21 by demoncat

Dees would not survive like a West Coast bottoming out. The Eagles have the $$$$s to survive. Their home crowds are still passable. If the Dees sink to 17th/18th in a year or two, it’s a disaster for a club in so many ways… especially given that the Dees were spruiked by some as ready for a dynasty !! 💔

6 hours ago, BLWNBA said:

At the time, unless you were a fanboy.

I totally agree with you BLWNBA. 4 years for Viney ranks as a terrible list management decision.

The player managers of Viney, and Gawn to a lesser extent capitalised on the extreme negativity around the club at the time with the Petracca, Oliver, Houston, ANB, stuff to do very attractive deals for their clients so there was something to announce for the fans.

Viney should have been 2 years with triggers for a 3rd.

26 minutes ago, goodwindees said:

I totally agree with you BLWNBA. 4 years for Viney ranks as a terrible list management decision.

The player managers of Viney, and Gawn to a lesser extent capitalised on the extreme negativity around the club at the time with the Petracca, Oliver, Houston, ANB, stuff to do very attractive deals for their clients so there was something to announce for the fans.

Viney should have been 2 years with triggers for a 3rd.

Do you think either Petracca or Oliver goes at years end?

4 first rounders in the last 2 years

We are rebuilding

Whether we want to or not

8 hours ago, D Rev said:

The rapid deterioration of our "A Graders" (apart from Max) has been very concerning for me....

Trac/Oliver (and arguably Viney) were A graders when contested footy was the game plan du jour.

Sure, their recent issues must’ve contributed to their decline but the reality is a) their contested style is less valuable in today’s footy and b) they are trying to adjust their style to be more impactful which will either take time or won’t happen at all.

My concern is we attempt to re-build and then end up with players that don’t suit whatever the game turns into in 5 years time.

44 minutes ago, DubDee said:

4 first rounders in the last 2 years

We are rebuilding

Whether we want to or not

There was no talk of rebuild as of October 2024. Clearly the message from Tim Lamb here was to compete and finish as high up as the ladder as we could.

Im hoping for 5 more weeks from Fritsch as good as his last 2 then looking to trade him while his stocks are high. Picks and chooses.

52 minutes ago, dazzledavey36 said:

Do you think either Petracca or Oliver goes at years end?

Dazz, all I do know is that Clayton is saying to a number of people that the game has got too fast for him. He’s saying he feels slow during games.

I think most footy people would suggest that one of the bash brothers on big $ needs to go, and it really has to be Clayton because Clayton doesn’t add anything to the Club other than his personal performance, which as we all know is probably at a value of about 60/70% of what he’s being paid.

Jack Viney is also only producing at 60/70% of what he’s being paid, however, Jack does at least drive standards around the Club and he puts a lot of work into the young blokes

I’m not criticising Clayton, he just focuses totally on self and doest’t have that personality that leads & drives others.

I think that if Geelong was to go out in straight sets, they might get pretty interested.

I think that Adelaide might enquire if their lack of a big mid exposed them in the finals.

Saints might also have a nibble.

That said, Dees management are going to have to be tough enough to pay a considerable sum of salary and not end up with a startling pick after Father Sons & Academy selections push picks out, in order to start sorting this TPP & List problem. If they don’t do it this year, they may not get another chance.

3 hours ago, spirit of norm smith said:

Dees would not survive like a West Coast bottoming out. The Eagles have the $$$$s to survive. Their home crowds are still passable. If the Dees sink to 17th/18th in a year or two, it’s a disaster for a club in so many ways… especially given that the Dees were spruiked by some as ready for a dynasty !! 💔

Another reason to SACK the football dept!

1 hour ago, dazzledavey36 said:

Do you think either Petracca or Oliver goes at years end?

Yep I reckon Dazz, and.... what if Both want to be traded out???

1 hour ago, goodwindees said:

Dazz, all I do know is that Clayton is saying to a number of people that the game has got too fast for him. He’s saying he feels slow during games.

But is that because at the end of the day he's still not as fit as he once was? He went a long way backwards last year, and perhaps he needs more than one pre-season to get back up to speed, literally?

The club would have all his fitness data, so presumably they would know if that's the case. Interesting that Goodwin has mentioned in a few press conferences working with Clayton to get him back to the player he was.

Clutching at straws?

5 hours ago, goodwindees said:

Dazz, all I do know is that Clayton is saying to a number of people that the game has got too fast for him. He’s saying he feels slow during games.

I think most footy people would suggest that one of the bash brothers on big $ needs to go, and it really has to be Clayton because Clayton doesn’t add anything to the Club other than his personal performance, which as we all know is probably at a value of about 60/70% of what he’s being paid.

Jack Viney is also only producing at 60/70% of what he’s being paid, however, Jack does at least drive standards around the Club and he puts a lot of work into the young blokes

I’m not criticising Clayton, he just focuses totally on self and doest’t have that personality that leads & drives others.

I think that if Geelong was to go out in straight sets, they might get pretty interested.

I think that Adelaide might enquire if their lack of a big mid exposed them in the finals.

Saints might also have a nibble.

That said, Dees management are going to have to be tough enough to pay a considerable sum of salary and not end up with a startling pick after Father Sons & Academy selections push picks out, in order to start sorting this TPP & List problem. If they don’t do it this year, they may not get another chance.

Very interesting and I think its been evident for a long timebut covered up with this disposals obsession some have. Think of all those hurried handballs when he didnt have time to kick or kick accurately.

6 hours ago, bing181 said:

But is that because at the end of the day he's still not as fit as he once was? He went a long way backwards last year, and perhaps he needs more than one pre-season to get back up to speed, literally?

The club would have all his fitness data, so presumably they would know if that's the case. Interesting that Goodwin has mentioned in a few press conferences working with Clayton to get him back to the player he was.

Clutching at straws?

Might it be a bit of both Bing ? I'd concur that Clarry is not at his fittest and probably feels it somewhat. At same time the style of play being brought in requires a lot more of the quicker actions etc.. the juxtaposition of both might be what's adding him ?