How Chris Scott differs from other AFL coaches

[Fromgotowoewodin 1,521]

Everyone bags us for not recruiting a key forward, how many years have the cats scraped by without a ruckman? Lions’ ruck had his arm fall off and the cats still couldn’t get the ball out of the middle in the second half.. 

Scott is good, but his main game is have a bunch of guns and let them do their work. Unfortunately yesterday he backed Stewart who was woeful apart from one tackle, Danger also not great. Should’ve picked De Konig. 

[KozzyCan 381]

7 hours ago, Moonshadow said:

Really? I count only about 10 or 11 really good players on that list of 45

This is what Goodwin inherited:

Primary list
1. Brayshaw, Angus
2. Bugg, Tomas
3. Dawes, Chris
4. Dunn, Lynden
5. Frost, Sam
6. Garland, Colin
7. Garlett, Jeff
8. Gawn, Max
9. Grimes, Jack
10. Harmes, James
11. Hogan, Jesse
12. Hulett, Liam
13. Hunt, Jayden
14. Jetta, Neville
15. Jones, Matt
16. Jones, Nathan
17. Kennedy, Ben
18. Kennedy-Harris, Jay
19. Kent, Dean
20. King, Mitch
21. Lumumba, Heritier
22. McDonald, Tom
23. McDonald, Oscar
24. Melksham, Jake
25. Neal-Bullen, Alex
26. Newton, Ben
27. Oliver, Clayton
28. Pedersen, Cameron
29. Petracca, Christian
30. Salem, Christian
31. Spencer, Jake
32. Stretch, Billy
33. Terlich, Dean
34. Trengove, Jack
35. Tyson, Dom
36. vandenBerg, Aaron
37. Vince, Bernie
38. Viney, Jack
39. Watts, Jack
40. Weideman, Sam
Category A rookie list
41. King, Max
42. Michie, Viv
43. Wagner, Josh
44. White, Mitch
Category B rookie list
45. Smith, Joel

Lewis, Hibberd and Melksham all came in in his first year. Our list in 2017 was solid outside of our backline.

[Biffen 12,832]

7 hours ago, Macca said:

City of Casey 365,000 and getting bigger by the day

You have to wonder if we're tapping in to the huge numbers out there

Free memberships to the kids?  Let's face it, we're out there even after the Caulfield training base gets built (and that won't be until at least 2028 if it goes ahead)

In the meantime, the club needs to embrace the locals and get them on board

Let's be realistic-They are more into Cricket.

[Moonshadow 17,545]

55 minutes ago, KozzyCan said:

Lewis, Hibberd and Melksham all came in in his first year. Our list in 2017 was solid outside of our backline.

"Young talented list built by Roos, primed to take the next step"

Those 3 were post Roos, and realistically only Pig took the next step.

Watts and Hogan left shortly after too. 

Roos changed our culture and made some excellent game style changes. But by no means was our flag list built by Roos.

[The heart beats true 17,806]

Scott in the post match presser, according to The Age….

’Two off-field staff contracted COVID, Scott revealed. Masks were worn in the Cats’ rooms. Word of flu had filtered through to the Brisbane camp. Holmes had a bout of gastro. Could his illness have led to fatigue, leaving him more vulnerable to a soft-tissue injury?’

This Is eerily similar to the prelim in ‘21. I’ll never respect him for doing this. They always have some excuse, that ignores that all clubs are dealing with things that aren’t going their way.

It’s pathetic.

Edited Saturday at 22:27 by The heart beats true

[Ollie fan 3,070]

15 minutes ago, The heart beats true said:

Scott in the post match presser, according to The Age….

’Two off-field staff contracted COVID, Scott revealed. Masks were worn in the Cats’ rooms. Word of flu had filtered through to the Brisbane camp. Holmes had a bout of gastro. Could his illness have led to fatigue, leaving him more vulnerable to a soft-tissue injury?’

This Is eerily similar to the prelim in ‘21. I’ll never respect him for doing this. They always have some excuse, that ignores that all clubs are dealing with things that aren’t going their way.

It’s pathetic.

I agree, pathetic.

 

Goody would never do that.

[chook fowler 19,251]

Biggest point of difference is his sunny disposition 

[Lucifers Hero 38,982]

10 hours ago, Moonshadow said:

Really? I count only about 10 or 11 really good players on that list of 45

This is what Goodwin inherited:

 

See revision below

 

2 hours ago, KozzyCan said:

Lewis, Hibberd and Melksham all came in in his first year. Our list in 2017 was solid outside of our backline.

 

I'd say you both have a case. 

 

This is the team Goodwin inherited vis a vis the Premiership.

• Premiership Players
  • Brayshaw, Angus
  • Gawn, Max
  • Harmes, James
  • McDonald, Tom
  • Neal-Bullen, Alex
  • Oliver, Clayton
  • Petracca, Christian
  • Salem, Christian
  • Viney, Jack
• Premiership Emergency
  • Hunt, Jayden
• Hard Luck
  •  Jones, Nathan
• Could have been
  • Hogan, Jesse

Experienced Premiership additions since Roos:  May, Lever, Hibberd, Brown, Fritsch

The rest of the Premiership team were kids: Jordon, Sparrow, Petty, Bowey, Jackson, Spargo, Rivers, Pickett with only a handful of games.

 

Summary:

• 9 of the 22 Premiership players were inherited.  Take a couple of them out and we probably would not have won it.  Its fair to say without injury Hunt would probably have played.  Jones played a huge role in getting the team to finals.
• Without the experienced additions we probably would not have won it.

So I reckon the inherited list was not premiership ready but most of the core 9 were top shelf.  We needed the experienced defenders and forwards (...we still need the latter...)

However, I suspect this topic will be discussed for a very long long time ...

Edited Saturday at 23:33 by Lucifers Hero

[KozzyCan 381]

47 minutes ago, Moonshadow said:

"Young talented list built by Roos, primed to take the next step"

Those 3 were post Roos, and realistically only Pig took the next step.

Watts and Hogan left shortly after too. 

Roos changed our culture and made some excellent game style changes. But by no means was our flag list built by Roos.

The bulk of the work was done before Goodwin took the reigns. The core of the team was built and he's always had a list capable of making finals.

Don't understand the reference to trading Watts and Hogan, both decisions that made our team better not worse.

If we're giving Goodwin credit for all the list management decisions post Roos then we must do the same for Scott. Rebuilt Geelong twice over only dropping out of finals for single years each time.

[KozzyCan 381]

24 minutes ago, Lucifers Hero said:

 

See revision below

 

 

I'd say you both have a case. 

 

This is the team Goodwin inherited vis a vis the Premiership.

• Premiership Players
  • Brayshaw, Angus
  • Gawn, Max
  • Harmes, James
  • McDonald, Tom
  • Neal-Bullen, Alex
  • Oliver, Clayton
  • Petracca, Christian
  • Salem, Christian
  • Viney, Jack
• Premiership Emergency
  • Hunt, Jayden
• Hard Luck
  •  Jones, Nathan
• Could have been
  • Hogan, Jesse

Experienced Premiership additions since Roos:  May, Lever, Hibberd, Brown, Fritsch

The rest of the Premiership team were kids: Jackson, Jordon, Sparrow, Petty, Bowey, Jackson, Spargo, Rivers, Pickett with only a handful of games.

 

Summary:

• 9 of the 22 Premiership players were inherited.  Take a couple of them out and we probably would not have won it. 
• Without the experienced additions we probably would not have won it.

So I reckon the inherited list was not premiership ready but it was close.  However, I suspect this topic will be discussed for a very long long time ...

Bit more to it than just looking at premiership players. Jones, Vince Jetta and Lewis were all playing great footy at the start of Goodwin's tenure. Tmac, Melksham and Hibberd were in their prime. Oliver was already a star at this point. Brayshaw and Petracca weren't quite there but still quality.

We had a real shot at it in 2018. 2019 and 2020 were disasters and completely wasted seasons.

Edited Saturday at 23:35 by KozzyCan

[FreedFromDesire 637]

13 hours ago, demon3165 said:

And how many players would know front of house employees, not many.

I'm not 100% sure what point you're trying to make here? Apologies.

I was pointing out that Geelong have a central home for their club, where we do not. That is a definite advantage for them.

[deanox 9,662]

[demon3165 2,573]

11 minutes ago, FreedFromDesire said:

I'm not 100% sure what point you're trying to make here? Apologies.

I was pointing out that Geelong have a central home for their club, where we do not. That is a definite advantage for them.

I agree that one place for all is ideal but it makes no difference where front of house are working it does not affect the football department and until that's solved it's not an issue.

[KozzyCan 381]

21 minutes ago, deanox said:

He really can't help himself lol.

[DeeSpencer 24,753]

2 hours ago, Moonshadow said:

"Young talented list built by Roos, primed to take the next step"

Those 3 were post Roos, and realistically only Pig took the next step.

Watts and Hogan left shortly after too. 

Roos changed our culture and made some excellent game style changes. But by no means was our flag list built by Roos.

Pack the backline and defend like mad was excellent game style???

It was the best thing for us in 14 and 15 but otherwise did very little in terms of trying to play like a successful side.

[Redleg 40,203]

37 minutes ago, deanox said:

On the other hand what if Oscar Mc had not got injured, probably their most irreplaceable player. What if Coleman, Doedee, McCarthy and Gardiner were available.

Yes there are always what ifs.

Goody could have nightmares over a thug act and horrible kicking for goal in the 23 finals and unbelievable injuries in 22 finals.

Edited Sunday at 00:33 by Redleg

[Deestar9 1,549]

13 hours ago, KozzyCan said:

Need some sauce for that chip on your shoulder.

Maybe you need some “humble pie” to go with that sauce 

[DeeSpencer 24,753]

55 minutes ago, KozzyCan said:

Bit more to it than just looking at premiership players. Jones, Vince Jetta and Lewis were all playing great footy at the start of Goodwin's tenure. Tmac, Melksham and Hibberd were in their prime. Oliver was already a star at this point. Brayshaw and Petracca weren't quite there but still quality.

We had a real shot at it in 2018. 2019 and 2020 were disasters and completely wasted seasons.

Load of junk.

For one, Goodwin coached all of 2016 which was Tracc and Clarry’s first season. There is no Tracc and Clarry before Goodwin. They are just draft picks. Like McLean and Sylvia or Morton and Trengove.

By 2018 Jones was a role player, Lewis and Vince couldn’t play in the same side as they were both looking for cheapies across half back. We had no key defenders, our young midfield weren’t seasoned and we didn’t have the depth of wings and forward flankers. We dominated a couple of finals then got blown out by the eventual premiers in a game no one was winning. 

2019 our injury list was comically bad and no one did a preseason, there was over a dozen off season surgeries. The trade off of young team going deep the year before. Lever was injured. May didn’t turn up. Just a complete throw away year.

We should’ve done better in 2020, but we were bedding down the defensive system and played 3 young kids who starred in September the next year.

[DeeSpencer 24,753]

9 minutes ago, Redleg said:

On the other hand what if Oscar Mc had not got injured, probably their most irreplaceable player. What if Coleman, Doedee, McCarthy and Gardiner were available.

Yes there are always what ifs.

Goody could have nightmares over a thug act and horrible kicking for goal in the 23 finals and unbelievable injuries in 22 finals.

Big O is a big out, but I wonder if the Lions other outs have almost helped them.

Lester is always the back up but seems to get the job done. He might be better than Doedee and Gardiner.

Coleman is an incredible footballer but his absence has forced Zorko to go back, where he is brilliant but also seems to concentrate on the game more. When he was mid/forward he’d spend the down time at stoppages giving away free kicks with poor discipline.

Linc is one of my favourite opposition players but Ah Chee and Lohmann have thrived in his absence and they have fresher younger legs than he does.

The crucial thing with the Lions injuries aside from Oscar is they happened with enough time to regroup and get a consistent team together. Plus they clearly have a fantastic list.

[seventyfour 1,000]

53 minutes ago, deanox said:

He never actually said this. The journo is writing it but it's not what Scott said at his press conference.

I hate Scott and his excuses as much as anyone but in this case he didn't use it as an excuse.

[whatwhat say what 22,143]

5 minutes ago, DeeSpencer said:

Load of junk.

For one, Goodwin coached all of 2016 which was Tracc and Clarry’s first season. There is no Tracc and Clarry before Goodwin. They are just draft picks. Like McLean and Sylvia or Morton and Trengove.

By 2018 Jones was a role player, Lewis and Vince couldn’t play in the same side as they were both looking for cheapies across half back. We had no key defenders, our young midfield weren’t seasoned and we didn’t have the depth of wings and forward flankers. We dominated a couple of finals then got blown out by the eventual premiers in a game no one was winning. 

2019 our injury list was comically bad and no one did a preseason, there was over a dozen off season surgeries. The trade off of young team going deep the year before. Lever was injured. May didn’t turn up. Just a complete throw away year.

We should’ve done better in 2020, but we were bedding down the defensive system and played 3 young kids who starred in September the next year.

it's easily forgotten, as well, that we missed out on finals by the smallest % margin in 2017, and by half a game and 2% in 2020 when we were forced to play two games in the same week in a hurricane

add in finals appearances in those years and goodwin's story is different

2019 and 2024 have been appalling with the way we dropped off after the halfway mark, but let's wait and see how 2025 goes

i'd take goodwin over scott primarily because he doesn't come across as a sore loser

[Heart Beats True 1,077]

3 hours ago, Fromgotowoewodin said:

Everyone bags us for not recruiting a key forward, how many years have the cats scraped by without a ruckman? Lions’ ruck had his arm fall off and the cats still couldn’t get the ball out of the middle in the second half.. 

Scott is good, but his main game is have a bunch of guns and let them do their work. Unfortunately yesterday he backed Stewart who was woeful apart from one tackle, Danger also not great. Should’ve picked De Konig. 

Being harsh on Stewart. He saved them on numerous occasions last night and had 22 disposals at 82% with 12 intercepts. Hardly woeful. 

[KozzyCan 381]

4 minutes ago, DeeSpencer said:

Load of junk.

For one, Goodwin coached all of 2016 which was Tracc and Clarry’s first season. There is no Tracc and Clarry before Goodwin. They are just draft picks. Like McLean and Sylvia or Morton and Trengove.

By 2018 Jones was a role player, Lewis and Vince couldn’t play in the same side as they were both looking for cheapies across half back. We had no key defenders, our young midfield weren’t seasoned and we didn’t have the depth of wings and forward flankers. We dominated a couple of finals then got blown out by the eventual premiers in a game no one was winning. 

2019 our injury list was comically bad and no one did a preseason, there was over a dozen off season surgeries. The trade off of young team going deep the year before. Lever was injured. May didn’t turn up. Just a complete throw away year.

We should’ve done better in 2020, but we were bedding down the defensive system and played 3 young kids who starred in September the next year.

What exactly are you basing the Goodwin coached all of 2016? That seems like a bit of a myth. He was still an apprentice at that stage.

I stand by my point that every year of Goodwin's tenure we had a list capable of making finals. By that metric half his seasons were failures.

People use injuries as a massive cop out. Like we're the only club to ever deal with injuries. We went from a prelim final to second last. That's a terrible result no matter how you look at it.

There's simply no metric where Goodwin is as good of a coach than Scott. It's not even a contest.

[KozzyCan 381]

15 minutes ago, Deestar9 said:

Maybe you need some “humble pie” to go with that sauce 

Nah, I tipped Brisbane to win. They had twice as much talent on the field as Geelong. Really a massive effort from Geelong to get within spitting distance of a GF with the team they had out there.

[whatwhat say what 22,143]

1 minute ago, KozzyCan said:

What exactly are you basing the Goodwin coached all of 2016? That seems like a bit of a myth. He was still an apprentice at that stage.

i thought it was fairly well documented that roos was the 'face' of coaching but goodwin was very much 'in charge' in 2016?