It's up to Simon Goodwin to fix this mess.

We shall wait and see what happens...

14 hours ago, bluey said:

I remember when Danners was sacked

Daniher was not sacked. He was told that other applicants would also considered for the MFC job. I would have insisted that he finish the year at least. He may have eventually succeeded with his new gameplan. In any case, a temporary coach turns out to be pointless., barring Roos.

Curiously, Balme was also introducing a new gameplan saying the players needed to throw the ball around more.

15 hours ago, Adam The God said:

As much as I'm p'ed off about our reverting to the long down the line strategy and already going away from the short kicking game at the back, it's reasonably clear that this is on our senior players in Viney, Trac, Clarry and even Max.

I have yet to see a shred of evidence of what the plan is after we've done our 10 chip kicks. What's the next kick? How are we moving into our attacking half, never mind forward 50? The long kick down the line appears baked in, it is just taking longer to get there. We continue to be allergic to the corridor, even though the past three Premiers all used it to devastating effect.

15 hours ago, bluey said:

I remember when Balmey was sacked

I remember when Bails was sacked

I remember when Danners was sacked

It left a lingering stench around the club.

The club had an absolute stench to it at the time. We were a shambles behind the scenes. Remember Paul McNamee? Cameron Schwab I and II? The revolving door of Presidents after Gutnick? Don't think the coaches were helped by that, but it wasn't their sackings that led to our horrible mess of a club. Neale, you could argue, deserved more time - but our list was so inconsistent. Bailey was the victim of Schwab having this club so far up its own **** for things it achieved 50 years earlier. At the same time, the culture festered under him. A loss of that magnitude was always going to be hard to survive. I was impressed when WCE stuck by Simpson after they lost by 171 to the Swans, but it turned out there wa no turnaround and losing by that much generally means your team is shot/not trying.

20 hours ago, bluey said:

I remember when Balmey was sacked

I remember when Bails was sacked

I remember when Danners was sacked

It left a lingering stench around the club.

Yes and its still there emanating from underperforming boards

11 hours ago, beelzebub said:

Adem says hello

Yze was there for the straight sets exits. Were they his fault?

Are we blaming goody for everything bad and crediting everyone else for the good. Is that how it is

1 minute ago, BDA said:

Yze was there for the straight sets exits. Were they his fault?

Are we blaming goody for everything bad and crediting everyone else for the good. Is that how it is

Im a ships captain . Ultimately , im held responsible for the performance or lack of performance of all the crew. It's my job and responsibility to make sure the team excels. If it isn't or if some of the crew aren't performing, im ultimately responsible to make adjustments so that the issues are resolved.

Goodwin has failed to do so.

4 minutes ago, BDA said:

Yze was there for the straight sets exits. Were they his fault?

Are we blaming goody for everything bad and crediting everyone else for the good. Is that how it is

Not at all. But there was some difference of "agreeing" after 21. This contributed to Ooze leaving I'm given to understand. The opportunity was one thing ( but it was Richmond ) , some 'non aligned ' thinking another.

The salient point is Simon only seems as good as those supporting him. He doesn'tappear to have the individual brilliance of his contemporaries.

We are utter rubbish atm because those in charge haven't a clue ... and the one supposedly in charge of those just makes excuses and poor decisions.

He's flying this lot into the ground.

8 minutes ago, Front and centre said:

Im a ships captain . Ultimately , im held responsible for the performance or lack of performance of all the crew. It's my job and responsibility to make sure the team excels. If it isn't or if some of the crew aren't performing, im ultimately responsible to make adjustments so that the issues are resolved.

Goodwin has failed to do so.

I agree

My point is the captain is responsible for the good and the bad, not just the bad

Give me Brendon Mc Carthy ANYDAY!

Jeez, it started as a conversation but it doesn't take long for the lynch mob to ride into town. He deserves 6-8 weeks to see what he and the team can achieve and unless the team really spirals he should be supported through the rest of the year. By spiral I mean a series of 80 plus beltings. I'll admit I've waived on this, thinking we should just rip the bandaid off but really that just makes us look like reactionary amateurs. At the end of the season I think it's likely we'll see a new coach and we can part ways with Goodwin respectfully as adults, he's our best performed coach in 60 years. If we want to be a serious club this is how you do it. Look at how the Swans did it, that's the template although I'd like a coach from outside the club.

35 minutes ago, Roost it far said:

Jeez, it started as a conversation but it doesn't take long for the lynch mob to ride into town. He deserves 6-8 weeks to see what he and the team can achieve and unless the team really spirals he should be supported through the rest of the year. By spiral I mean a series of 80 plus beltings. I'll admit I've waived on this, thinking we should just rip the bandaid off but really that just makes us look like reactionary amateurs. At the end of the season I think it's likely we'll see a new coach and we can part ways with Goodwin respectfully as adults, he's our best performed coach in 60 years. If we want to be a serious club this is how you do it. Look at how the Swans did it, that's the template although I'd like a coach from outside the club.

Just a question..

How many 6-8 weeks would you let him have ?

6-8 to see if his current debacle rights ? Another when he abandons plan FU for modified quasi plan FU/NQR ? Another 6-8 to experiment seeing out season ,

I'm interested

6 hours ago, Pirlo said:

I have yet to see a shred of evidence of what the plan is after we've done our 10 chip kicks. What's the next kick? How are we moving into our attacking half, never mind forward 50? The long kick down the line appears baked in, it is just taking longer to get there. We continue to be allergic to the corridor, even though the past three Premiers all used it to devastating effect.

It's about the angled kicks or the short kicks into the hole up the field, and then going quickly when the time is right.

I know 4 weeks is a long time in football, but did anyone watch Round 1?

It was all on display there.

11 hours ago, titan_uranus said:

Fagan?

They guy who took six years to win a flag after five years of finals which included two straight sets exist and a lost home prelim in 2020 when a home GF beckoned? And has the same number of flags as Goodwin?

And it took Scott 11 years to win a flag. Critics of Goodwin on here say he was "gifted" a list by Roos, or by JT (you've just argued this today in this thread). Scott took over the Bomber Thompson squad, won that flag, and then had Selwood, Hawkins, Duncan, Guthrie, Taylor, Enright, and later Blicavs, Stewart and then Cameron, and still took 11 years to win another one.

Trac is playing forward though. Not exclusively, but we'd be stupid to give him 0 midfield time. He's majority forward, and that on its own is working for us.

By now I think the evidence is clear - Oliver can't be a defensive mid because when the going gets tough he resorts to "see ball, get ball" too much.

Who knows if Viney could be a forward though, because that's a lever we've never properly pulled. And agree re: Max, his lack of form is killing us everywhere (at stoppage and on transition).

Can’t understand how you can’t be impressed with Fagan. He took Brisbane over when they were rock bottom and a mess. He did the full rebuild, not just the finishing like Goody. Ie from 18th to a flag.

Yes they struggled in finals initially but they were finishing top 4 at the same stage of their rebuild when we were missing the 8. They were a young team. Since their straight sets exit in 21 they have played in the last 3 prelims, 2 GFs, and won a flag. They are 4-0 this year. Finals record is 8-2 since 21. He’s a brilliant coach.

Edited Thursday at 22:462 days by Watson11

9 minutes ago, Watson11 said:

Can’t understand how you can’t be impressed with Fagan. He took Brisbane over when they were rock bottom and a mess. He did the full rebuild, not just the finishing like Goody. Ie from 18th to a flag.

Yes they struggled in finals initially but they were finishing top 4 at the same stage of their rebuild when we were missing the 8. They were a young team. Since their straight sets exit in 21 they have played in the last 3 prelims, 2 GFs, and won a flag. They are 4-0 this year. Finals record is 8-2 since 21. He’s a brilliant coach.

bring Fagan home. great coach and leader of men

23 minutes ago, beelzebub said:

Just a question..

How many 6-8 weeks would you let him have ?

6-8 to see if his current debacle rights ? Another when he abandons plan FU for modified quasi plan FU/NQR ? Another 6-8 to experiment seeing out season ,

I'm interested

Put it this way, if the team wins a few, doesn’t get belted week in and week out, we see a few improvements then for mine he stays. If we start getting belted and the players start getting restless then he may need to be earlier. I don’t see this happening. I don’t think the club can sack Goodwin when we do t have a CEO, nor do I think you sack the coach mid season unless we really spiral which I don’t think we’ll do.

What I think will happen is we’ll start winning a few games, McVee, Windsor, Lindsay, Langford, Pickett and a few others will get the game plan closer to what we’re chasing and we’ll miss finals by a similar amount to last year. Goodwin will step down and we’ll get a new coach.

And let's not forget Goodwin is arguably the worst match day tactician going round.

His failure to pick up unmanned Geelong defenders last week was ludicrous.

We may as well have just stopped at the half way mark and handed the ball over to a Geelong player.

13 hours ago, titan_uranus said:

Fagan?

They guy who took six years to win a flag after five years of finals which included two straight sets exist and a lost home prelim in 2020 when a home GF beckoned? And has the same number of flags as Goodwin?

And it took Scott 11 years to win a flag. Critics of Goodwin on here say he was "gifted" a list by Roos, or by JT (you've just argued this today in this thread). Scott took over the Bomber Thompson squad, won that flag, and then had Selwood, Hawkins, Duncan, Guthrie, Taylor, Enright, and later Blicavs, Stewart and then Cameron, and still took 11 years to win another one.

Trac is playing forward though. Not exclusively, but we'd be stupid to give him 0 midfield time. He's majority forward, and that on its own is working for us.

By now I think the evidence is clear - Oliver can't be a defensive mid because when the going gets tough he resorts to "see ball, get ball" too much.

Who knows if Viney could be a forward though, because that's a lever we've never properly pulled. And agree re: Max, his lack of form is killing us everywhere (at stoppage and on transition).

Scott is easily one of if not the best coach in the competition and measurably better than Goodwin. He's missed two finals series in 15 years, made 8 prelims, 3 grand finals and won two flags and holds a 70% win rate.

1 hour ago, KozzyCan said:

Scott is easily one of if not the best coach in the competition and measurably better than Goodwin. He's missed two finals series in 15 years, made 8 prelims, 3 grand finals and won two flags and holds a 70% win rate.

clarkson the other star coach

3 minutes ago, frankie_d said:

clarkson the other star coach

Clarkson obviously had a golden era with Hawthorn, got moved on during their rebuild. Will be interesting to see if he's still got what it takes with North.

13 hours ago, Supreme_Demon said:

It's up to Simon Goodwin to fix this mess.

We shall wait and see what happens...

If he had the ability to do so, he would have "fixed this" by now. Or at least we would see positive signs.

He is just not up to it, and should be shown the door. The bloke and his outdated snooze-fest tactics/Gameplan are killing our club, and he has undone our past 6-7 year revival IMO.

I actually think it would be better for him personally too. It cant be good for anyone having this much pressure and stress hanging over you whilst you try to fumble your way to success in a role that you are not capable of.

5 hours ago, Roost it far said:

Jeez, it started as a conversation but it doesn't take long for the lynch mob to ride into town. He deserves 6-8 weeks to see what he and the team can achieve and unless the team really spirals he should be supported through the rest of the year. By spiral I mean a series of 80 plus beltings. I'll admit I've waived on this, thinking we should just rip the bandaid off but really that just makes us look like reactionary amateurs. At the end of the season I think it's likely we'll see a new coach and we can part ways with Goodwin respectfully as adults, he's our best performed coach in 60 years. If we want to be a serious club this is how you do it. Look at how the Swans did it, that's the template although I'd like a coach from outside the club.

Totally agree. I dont get the toddler like reactions on here to sack Goodwin. The new game plan was always going to struggle with the injuries and suspensions to key players who can move the ball quickly. Those who say for instance keeping Bailey Fritsch in the side shows he has no clue. Well he has had a couple of decent weeks, last week our most involved forward so you just arent watching.

Given him till the half way point, 6 new players round one, new game plan we actually abandoned last year. let the dust settle first.

3 hours ago, KozzyCan said:

Scott is easily one of if not the best coach in the competition and measurably better than Goodwin. He's missed two finals series in 15 years, made 8 prelims, 3 grand finals and won two flags and holds a 70% win rate.

Well said, mate. As a Tottenham fan, even I have been calling for Ange Postecoglu’s head. Very similar predicament to what the Dees are facing with Goodwin. Eddie Howe is not a big name, but a name that has adapted to turn Newcastle around. They are a team who had never won a in 50 years and won one before Tottenham a few weeks ago.

Unmoveable tactically and extremely stubborn. Postecoglu’s insistence of playing through the defense is where Tottenham are where they are today and Goodwin’s inability to swing changes has been a massive thorn in this club over the last 3-4 years, hence why depth players like Bedford and Jordon have gone on to play good footy in successful clubs who are willing to move with the times and adapt.

Another glaring similarity is both these sides know how to find the ball, but scoring is extremely hard work especially having all the play.

I don’t know who I [censored] off in a previous life to be stuck following Melbourne and Tottenham. 🤡😂

Edited Friday at 04:042 days by VNightCityLegend

I keep reading that the senior coach "took us to a premiership". Well, in one sense, that is obviously factually correct. But correlation is not causation. Where is the evidence that it was down to his innate ability and capacity as a coach that made the difference between us beating the WB that day (via a massive third quarter only) or not?

An alternative and plausible narrative is that we won in 2021 despite the senior coach.

And as the synergy of that year has faded - with injuries, age, poor recruiting etc - the capacities of the senior coach are manifesting to our discontent.

I go to most games. I frequently see very poor coaching decisions (or rather lack of decisions) and the opposition making changes that are successful within game and with selections.

And tomorrow we have Spargo, JVR, Petty, Fritsch, Viney - all either well past their prime or not up to AFL standard in the first place - being selected ahead of a guy like Turner who at least can take a mark and get hold of the ball and kick goals. All these players who keep getting games without justification are seemingly pets of the senior coach.

I also saw comment that comparing JVR to Sam Weideman is a travesty of justice (my words). I urge those who refute that comparison, and, instead, believe JVR is the next big thing to go to the statistics and do a like for like at the same career point. Haunting. Time will tell but in the meantime JVR just keeps getting a game despite delivering outcomes that would not justify selection. And is a liability to our probability of success.

best wishes

bill