59 minutes ago, whatwhat say what said:

goodwin's record of three consecutive top 4 finishes at the end of the home and away season, including a premiership, is the most successful three year period we've had since the 1960s under norm smith

daniher's record was up and down and northey was our last 'consistently competitive' coach from 87-91 inclusive, and both those sides were always good but not quite great at the end of every season - they always fell short year after year

balme had one great year and lost every key pillar to injury, bailey was on a hiding to nothing, and neeld was an incredibly divisive and distruptive presence that required paul roos to come in and calm the farm

goodwin deserves the rest of the year imo

at the end of the season a calm and considered opinion by a new ceo and a board with a new president in charge is warranted

he may survive; he may not

This is where I sit too

I remember when Balmey was sacked

I remember when Bails was sacked

I remember when Danners was sacked

It left a lingering stench around the club.

13 hours ago, Maximum Gawn said:

I just struggle to understand what the coach has done, in terms of on field results, to warrant such adamant calls for his sacking. He’s made the finals 50% of his time in charge. Picked us up off the bottom of the ladder once before to win a flag two years later. Who says he can’t do it again? Why does an unknown quantity in a new coach deserve more support than someone we already have who’s proven he can get us playing great footy, in multiple game styles?

I think he deserves much more benefit of the doubt when there are many things up in the air about the club, no CEO for example.

Couldn't agree more Maximus Gawn. I'd rather as supporters we focus on backing in a proven coach and leave it to the experts with internal working knowledge of our club determine what the Footy Department should look like if and when appropriate. The worst thing any club can do is bow to external pressure to replace its coach and unfortunately supporters are the worst offenders when it comes to external pressure to make changes which often set the club back and rarely result in positive change.

2 minutes ago, Adam The God said:

As much as I'm p'ed off about our reverting to the long down the line strategy and already going away from the short kicking game at the back, it's reasonably clear that this is on our senior players in Viney, Trac, Clarry and even Max.

Our ball use when we turn it over (where we are often creating more than enough turnovers to win games), is solely on the shoulders of these guys who are being asked to make better decisions with the footy in hand, and so far, they're incapable of delivering.

Sure, there's very ordinary forward craft in our front half, but the Geelong game was a very good example again of sometimee having 3 or 4 free forwards to kick to, and instead we pick out anjest of Cats. We've done this every week.

We need to find roles of those three mids that maximise their strengths and minimise their weaknesses. Their strength in the stoppages has disappeared in the last three weeks after a flying start against GWS. We need to get back to winning stoppage, but we need receivers for them to give to, or half forwards or CHFs that lead up at the play to give them easier options. And they need to lead and understand their limitations.

Our season and Goody's future hinges on Max finding form and better ball use from Viney, Trac and Clarry.

Few things. Everything from clearance starts from the midfield so if those guys aren't getting it done then maybe they need to be moved out of there? Goodwin can make those moves but so far he's backed them in. Petracca is the only one who gets moved forward despite being a more damaging midfielder than either Viney or Oliver. Max is old and not impacting games like he used to but you can get by without a ruck dominating games. We rely too much on him saving us with his marking. Need to adapt to that.

Other thing is we are absolutely horrible at the turnover game which is far more important to modern footy than clearance. We struggle to force turnovers and when we do we don't score from them. That's a whole team thing and an issue with how we rebound.

8 minutes ago, bluey said:

I remember when Balmey was sacked

I remember when Bails was sacked

I remember when Danners was sacked

It left a lingering stench around the club.

Balme being sacked lead to Daniher coming in, making a prelim the following year and a Grand Final two years after that.

Also you seem to be forgetting one coach in particular.

11 minutes ago, KozzyCan said:

I can't think of any moments so far this season that have really shown how we're trying to play in a way that will actually stand up. The players look completely confused and are second guessing themselves, the running patterns are a mess, and guys who won a flag together look like they've never played football with eachother before.

There is a small sample size of transitional play which look promising up until a bad kick inside the F50. Which seemingly may be a flaw with the plan given our list.

But agreed - definitely some indecision on the players behalf when chipping the ball around, not sure who to kick to, not sure what to do themselves.

11 minutes ago, bluey said:

I remember when Balmey was sacked

I remember when Bails was sacked

I remember when Danners was sacked

It left a lingering stench around the club.

Fair enough. The club should however make it clear that his contract will not be renewed heralding in a new mindset and preparing for that transition.

1 minute ago, roy11 said:

There is a small sample size of transitional play which look promising up until a bad kick inside the F50. Which seemingly may be a flaw with the plan given our list.

But agreed - definitely some indecision on the players behalf when chipping the ball around, not sure who to kick to, not sure what to do themselves.

The whole thing about our inside 50s is it doesn't seem like it's an issue at all for any other side regardless of their list profile. What other side has had their forward entries be such a massive issue for so long? I can accept that we don't have a brilliant forward line but it really shouldn't be as hard as we make it. We should be taking at least 10 marks inside 50 per game. We should be able to hit a short pass to a lead far more than we do. I can't accept that our list is so incapable of this stuff. It's absolute basic footy.

I saw this car crash coming even before the wheels started squeaking. I’ve been vocal about it since mid 2022 when it was painfully obvious the players thought it was all just going to just happen . He has never shown any ability to pivot and make changes or fix glaring issues . A few weeks of poor form is on the players .

Year after year of failing to adapt and instigate changes to the game plan or fix fwd efficiency is on the coach.

Hes failed .

Cut away and find a new coach

Edited Thursday at 00:593 days by Front and centre

1 hour ago, whatwhat say what said:

goodwin's record of three consecutive top 4 finishes at the end of the home and away season, including a premiership, is the most successful three year period we've had since the 1960s under norm smith

daniher's record was up and down and northey was our last 'consistently competitive' coach from 87-91 inclusive, and both those sides were always good but not quite great at the end of every season - they always fell short year after year

balme had one great year and lost every key pillar to injury, bailey was on a hiding to nothing, and neeld was an incredibly divisive and distruptive presence that required paul roos to come in and calm the farm

goodwin deserves the rest of the year imo

at the end of the season a calm and considered opinion by a new ceo and a board with a new president in charge is warranted

he may survive; he may not

Imagine how calmly we could approach the rest of the season if we could just close ranks on this being the healthiest approach.

Imagine the other conversations we, and the club internally, could have if we were able to set aside the bombardment.

Reminds me of the times in my life when I've sat down to try to get some important work done and got up an hour later with still a blank screen or page in front of me because the entire time was consumed trying to digest the sheer varieties of entirely useless pressures and stresses that had been layered over the task.

55 minutes ago, KozzyCan said:

Few things. Everything from clearance starts from the midfield so if those guys aren't getting it done then maybe they need to be moved out of there?

I've said this multiple times. Trac forward, Viney forward and Oliver defensive mid with a focus on intercept game ala 2021-2023.

55 minutes ago, KozzyCan said:

Goodwin can make those moves but so far he's backed them in. Petracca is the only one who gets moved forward despite being a more damaging midfielder than either Viney or Oliver. Max is old and not impacting games like he used to but you can get by without a ruck dominating games. We rely too much on him saving us with his marking. Need to adapt to that.

I implied this in my previous post... long down the line is hopeless. What we need is Max to impact stoppage.

55 minutes ago, KozzyCan said:

Other thing is we are absolutely horrible at the turnover game which is far more important to modern footy than clearance. We struggle to force turnovers and when we do we don't score from them. That's a whole team thing and an issue with how we rebound.

Yes and no, and this is my point. We are strong at creating turnovers (particularly in the corridor), but our decision making and ball use is not good enough. Improve ball use and our fortunes turn.

1 minute ago, Adam The God said:

I've said this multiple times. Trac forward, Viney forward and Oliver defensive mid with a focus on intercept game ala 2021-2023.

I implied this in my previous post... long down the line is hopeless. What we need is Max to impact stoppage.

Yes and no, and this is my point. We are strong at creating turnovers (particularly in the corridor), but our decision making and ball use is not good enough. Improve ball use and our fortunes turn.

I agree with all of that and ultimately it's on Goodwin to implement those sorts of changes.

Goody's future hangs fairly and squarely upon... Goody. He's the actual play maker, the General , HWMBO . In effect there are 18 minions ( atva time ) charged with doing the bidding of one.

If Goody is to survive , then we must prevail. He must better choose , configure and use the people at his disposal. A better design and build would help as the current House of Straw is nigh on laughable..

Imho.. a lot of things a misconstrued. Even the way forward incursions are noted. Just letting the ball over the arc rewards the stat sheet but it means squat. The only thing in winning football is putting the ball to advantage , and taking that advantage and scoring. Football is THAT simple really. No matter how you may like or try to dress it us the simple tenets of footy are get ball control ball, move ball and score. It's not about controlling space... you win nothing by accumulating acreage. You win nothing by fencing in others. I get the idea of pressure... of harassment, creating turnovers... but they are but means to possession and opportunity.

Our current style exhibits no intelligence in successfully and repeatedly getting the ball, nor any concerted nor skilful use should we get it and certainly there's a void as large Gaia-Bh1 should we ever manage to currently coerce the ball towards our goal square.

Quite frankly we need leadership and direction from people that better understand what you actually ought to be doing out there.

Currently we're doing ALL the wrong things... and strangely quite well.

We seem to be trying to finesse fade away 3 pointers whilst we can't manage a simple lay-up.

Our football is all [censored] about.

Again we have embraced Ballshido and excel.

Up to you Simon.

1 hour ago, chookrat said:

Couldn't agree more Maximus Gawn. I'd rather as supporters we focus on backing in a proven coach and leave it to the experts with internal working knowledge of our club determine what the Footy Department should look like if and when appropriate. The worst thing any club can do is bow to external pressure to replace its coach and unfortunately supporters are the worst offenders when it comes to external pressure to make changes which often set the club back and rarely result in positive change.

Take the emotion out of it and look at it from a pre and post premiership perspective. It has been chalk and cheese how different his and his support staff performance has been. It isn't only Goody; I'd start asking what Richardson and Lamb have done since the flag. Bad contract extensions, no big fish signed, player and coaching development stalled and onfield performance gone backwards.

1 hour ago, Adam The God said:

This is where I sit too

It’s largely where I sit as well. I’m not convinced sacking coaches is a great decision, it never seems to improve things. However if things spiral it may just be needed as a circuit breaker. It’s hard for a club lacking a CEO to start sacking coaches. You really need a whole of club approach to decisions this big. I don’t see him lasting the off season unless we really turn things around.

How I am feeling after today's selection. HELP!

6 minutes ago, ElDiablo14 said:

How I am feeling after today's selection. HELP!

Empathise el dee caaryst joint is going downhill

10 hours ago, ElDiablo14 said:

And 2019 happened to be vital for 2021. Goodwin got lucky, the talent that JT gave him out of the misery that was 2019.

I am not sure we have 2021 without Kozzy, Jackson and to a lesser degree Rivers.

I’ve pretty much lost faith in goody but saying 21 was down to luck is very unfair. He had a game plan that worked perfectly for a couple of seasons.

1 minute ago, BDA said:

I’ve pretty much lost faith in goody but saying 21 was down to luck is very unfair. He had a game plan that worked perfectly for a couple of seasons.

I meant we got lucky in 2019, with the talent that we brought into the club.

With the game plan and all, without Kozzy and Jackson, I can see us not winning the flag.

3 minutes ago, BDA said:

I’ve pretty much lost faith in goody but saying 21 was down to luck is very unfair. He had a game plan that worked perfectly for a couple of seasons.

Adem says hello

Selection absolutely stinks. Stinks like 💩.

How do you continue to give games to JVR, Fritta, Melksham after a hapless 4 weeks.

I all hope they turn things around but you are giving non performers a free ride.

Ppl seem under the misconception Goodwin got us a Premiership. He may have been the Head Coach of record but he was propped up by cleverer ppl.

Consider all the years he's been here. How many years were we truly competitive...( including the cup )

21,22,23.

There was someone in particular who was with us 21, 22,23

Have a good long think about it. Goodwins ability as a coach is a crock.

Look at us now.

4 minutes ago, beelzebub said:

Ppl seem under the misconception Goodwin got us a Premiership. He may have been the Head Coach of record but he was propped up by cleverer ppl.

Consider all the years he's been here. How many years were we truly competitive...( including the cup )

21,22,23.

There was someone in particular who was with us 21, 22,23

Have a good long think about it. Goodwins ability as a coach is a crock.

Look at us now.

Richmond is looking more promising than us atm.

12 hours ago, ElDiablo14 said:

Compare him to the likes of Chris Scott or Fagan. Who had a similar talent at their clubs.

Goodwin has been very inconsistent, remember 2017,2019, 2020, 2024.

Way too many bad years in my view.

Fagan?

They guy who took six years to win a flag after five years of finals which included two straight sets exist and a lost home prelim in 2020 when a home GF beckoned? And has the same number of flags as Goodwin?

And it took Scott 11 years to win a flag. Critics of Goodwin on here say he was "gifted" a list by Roos, or by JT (you've just argued this today in this thread). Scott took over the Bomber Thompson squad, won that flag, and then had Selwood, Hawkins, Duncan, Guthrie, Taylor, Enright, and later Blicavs, Stewart and then Cameron, and still took 11 years to win another one.

9 hours ago, Adam The God said:

I've said this multiple times. Trac forward, Viney forward and Oliver defensive mid with a focus on intercept game ala 2021-2023.

I implied this in my previous post... long down the line is hopeless. What we need is Max to impact stoppage.

Yes and no, and this is my point. We are strong at creating turnovers (particularly in the corridor), but our decision making and ball use is not good enough. Improve ball use and our fortunes turn.

Trac is playing forward though. Not exclusively, but we'd be stupid to give him 0 midfield time. He's majority forward, and that on its own is working for us.

By now I think the evidence is clear - Oliver can't be a defensive mid because when the going gets tough he resorts to "see ball, get ball" too much.

Who knows if Viney could be a forward though, because that's a lever we've never properly pulled. And agree re: Max, his lack of form is killing us everywhere (at stoppage and on transition).

31 minutes ago, titan_uranus said:

Fagan?

They guy who took six years to win a flag after five years of finals which included two straight sets exist and a lost home prelim in 2020 when a home GF beckoned? And has the same number of flags as Goodwin?

And it took Scott 11 years to win a flag. Critics of Goodwin on here say he was "gifted" a list by Roos, or by JT (you've just argued this today in this thread). Scott took over the Bomber Thompson squad, won that flag, and then had Selwood, Hawkins, Duncan, Guthrie, Taylor, Enright, and later Blicavs, Stewart and then Cameron, and still took 11 years to win another one.

Trac is playing forward though. Not exclusively, but we'd be stupid to give him 0 midfield time. He's majority forward, and that on its own is working for us.

By now I think the evidence is clear - Oliver can't be a defensive mid because when the going gets tough he resorts to "see ball, get ball" too much.

Who knows if Viney could be a forward though, because that's a lever we've never properly pulled. And agree re: Max, his lack of form is killing us everywhere (at stoppage and on transition).

Proooooobably wouldn't be comparing us to Brisbane. They played in every finals series since 2019, have won 9 finals including a flag and three Prelims. Goodwin's record ain't bad but it doesn't compare to Fagan who has clearly overtaken Goodwin. Geelong has played in 12 of 14 finals series under Scott with 10 wins their lowest win total in that period. That includes 14 finals wins, 9 Prelims, 2 Grand Finals and two Flags. That's a level of consistency from both coaches and clubs that doesn't include random 5-win seasons and a handful of 10-goal beltings throughout a season.

The elephant in the room here is that maybe this is not about Goodwin, but is all just a symptom of a homeless club that constantly finds itself in corporate no-mans land. I've thought about that a lot lately. Because this also happened under Daniher, under Balme, under Bailey to a degree... the wheels just fall off so quickly, constantly. We really can't be affording for this [censored] to happen every few years. It just absolutely destroys any momentum we have. We are like 10k down on members vs last year. That's disastrous for a club that won a flag 4 years ago. You can't understate that. I really don't think there's a positive spin on this.