2 minutes ago, DistrACTION Jackson said:

100% agree. Could say the same thing about the 2023 finals series, kick 9.17 against the Blues you can't really blame Goodwin for that when you generate that many shots.

I guess the one blame is the gameplan wasn't conducive to generating high quality shots, but still should've won by 3-4 goals.

The 9.17 in that 2023 SF also highlighted that our forward line was D Grade standard

I hate excuses but I do believe in sound reasoning

No Melksham, No Petty, No JVR, No Brown, Grundy had disappeared

Fritsch on one leg and our only key forward (T-Mac) was on half a leg and was needed as the 2nd ruck

It's a minor miracle we got so close

But again, the reason we got so close was because we had a stellar Midfield and a stellar Defence

Edited March 31Mar 31 by Macca

2 minutes ago, Roost it far said:

Langford, Lindsay, Windsor, McVee, Rivers, Pickett, JVR, Turner, Tholstrup and Petty is a very strong basis from which to grow a team. It’s really up to Petracca and Oliver whether they want to hang around and help out or chase glory elsewhere. If this year doesn’t improve, which I think it will, I’d take the picks and move them on.

I agree and we'll do well to hang on to Kozzie (a player I would hate to see us lose)

There's plenty of talent coming through but there's a chance we'll need quite a few more

Remembering that it is a midfielders game these days so you can never have enough good midfielders. Even the players in the pockets need to be able to run all day and contribute

56 minutes ago, DistrACTION Jackson said:

I'd say it would be similar to sides like Hawthorn and Giants.

Looking to score more points from the defensive half, which is what the best sides are doing and why us and Carlton are both struggling.

If that’s the case it is doomed to fail. The Hawks and Giants play with speed and supreme foot skills. We desperately lack both even with a full team to pick from.

3 minutes ago, Heart Beats True said:

If that’s the case it is doomed to fail. The Hawks and Giants play with speed and supreme foot skills. We desperately lack both even with a full team to pick from.

Agreed. However the Hawks looked as bad as us early last year and then suddenly became world beaters.

Personally I'm giving it until half way through the year before writing off Goody or anything like that.

Edited March 31Mar 31 by DistrACTION Jackson

6 minutes ago, DistrACTION Jackson said:

Agreed. However the Hawks looked as bad as us early last year and then suddenly became world beaters.

Personally I'm giving it until half way through the year before writing off Goody or anything like that.

A wise move, see if you can convince others, DJ!!

Another way of looking at the new type of offense ...

If you could pick any group of players from any team to embark on a new, fast, direct, precise way of playing, probably the last team you'd pick would be Melbourne

We perfected the contested ball, long bomb to the pockets like no other

It's any wonder we went back to Plan B last year after dabbling with Plan A

I reckon the change that we are looking for is going to take more than half a season. Glimpses yes but a full transformation? It needs time

51 minutes ago, Macca said:

So in the meantime, we should all be blaming the players who are making the fundamental errors, not the coaching

For instance, if Billings chokes in front of goal, how can that be the fault of Goodwin? Or if Rivers fumbles or Viney misses another target? ⁷

And yes, we are trying to change and Goodwin has said there will be teething issues. And he is right, it's not a magic wand situation

We have to give the new game plan a chance to take hold but there's a chance that the players (as a group) may not be able to change

And if that happens, it won't be just the coach copping it in the neck. We'll need a host of new players

Wrong! Repeated mistakes can be a product of poor coaching, if players keep making the same mistakes then rectify it with coaching strategies that work! If the same mistakes are still being made then dont play them.

Edited March 31Mar 31 by picket fence

28 minutes ago, Heart Beats True said:

If that’s the case it is doomed to fail. The Hawks and Giants play with speed and supreme foot skills. We desperately lack both even with a full team to pick from.

The system shouldn’t rely on all players being elite kicks. We have to utilise our strength in contest and not be afraid to kick to a 50-50 ahead, keep some speed on the ball but be defensively ready to repel turnover

6 minutes ago, picket fence said:

Wrong! Repeated mistakes can be a product of poor coaching, if players keep making the same mistakes then rectify it with coaching strategies that work! If the same mistakes are still being made then dont play them.

A fumble is a fumble

Same deal for misdirected kicks, dropped marks, missed tackles etc etc

Would you be blaming Barassi or Roos if their players made fundamental errors?

I think not

Your argument lacks consistency and common sense

Edited March 31Mar 31 by Macca

Move Rivers back into the engine room. Would play Lindsay as half forward flank. Move Fritch back to the pocket. Play Van Toyon centre half forward. Play disco full forward and keep Langford in the guts. Fritch needs to play close to goal. Defence is a bit of a disaster

I don't care what anyone says.
Goodwins gotta go.
Every pre-season he tells us we're gonna play differently and every year we dish up the same god awful garbage.
It's his list he's assembled who cannot hit a target if their life depended on it and his game plan that is just horrendous to watch.
Keep him and we'll die a slow agonising death as a club.
He's a one trick pony and his pony is dead.

5 hours ago, picket fence said:

As of NOW, REEKS of woke!

YES! Hook this to my vein.

Flexibility is woke.

Shaking hands is woke.

Amino acids are woke.

Stairs are woke.

1 hour ago, DistrACTION Jackson said:

Agreed. However the Hawks looked as bad as us early last year and then suddenly became world beaters.

Personally I'm giving it until half way through the year before writing off Goody or anything like that.

People should stop with the Hawks comp. The issues they had early last season do not reflect ours.

They were reaching a little on their game plan in terms of execution. Even against us, they tried to maintain the ball too much and eventually succumbed to our pressure. But they never rolled over or stopped running and trying to create.

Currently, we don’t win our own footy, we don’t spread when we do eventually get the footy, we don’t chase, we don’t shepherd, we are poor at tackling and defensively we are lacking. These are pretty much all nonnegotiable’s. They are intangibles that are a sign of a team that, to put it in Goody’s language, love each other.

On top of that, our players look confused, lacking confidence and are making skill errors at an alarming rate. I can get over the the skill execution if I think we are adhering to my previous paragraph as I think the worm can turn if you do those intangibles.

To me this is a leadership problem. That includes coaching and senior players. Goody, if he isn’t in the gun, absolutely should be. He hasn’t instilled the basics and doesn’t enforce them clearly. Otherwise we’d see more changes at selection. We’d see repeat offenders held to account. He also has failed numerous times to change our style. He has historically played favourites. Now it’s those favourites that are hurting us the most.

Regarding on field leadership. It was time for a change in October last year. Max, Viney et al don’t need to have C or VC next to their name to be leaders but it sure would help players like McVee or JVR or Rivers or Chandler to be acknowledged and empower them. (They are some names the club thinks have potential in that space) We have a massive void which is so obvious to see, it staggers me that it hasn’t been addressed.

But ultimately, if you trace the above back to its root cause, it all leads to the same spot. Our coaching and match committee. Our coaching and match committee and decisions they’ve made in the previous 5-6 years which have brought the club undone from a performance perspective.

1 hour ago, Macca said:

A fumble is a fumble

Same deal for misdirected kicks, dropped marks, missed tackles etc etc

Would you be blaming Barassi or Roos if their players made fundamental errors?

I think not

Your argument lacks consistency and common sense

As I said unless flaws are eradicated dont play them!

10 minutes ago, The Taciturn Demon said:

YES! Hook this to my vein.

Flexibility is woke.

Shaking hands is woke.

Amino acids are woke.

Stairs are woke.

Stairs aren’t woke, they’re for real men. Escalators and elevators are woke. Anybody that uses them for any reason are just weak.

1 minute ago, picket fence said:

As I said unless flaws are eradicated dont play them!

Because of out injury list we'd be replacing fumblers with more fumblers

I could give you the names but you know who the replacement players would be

So if you want change, offer up the alternates, don't just whinge

7 minutes ago, BoBo said:

Stairs aren’t woke, they’re for real men. Escalators and elevators are woke. Anybody that uses them for any reason are just weak.

I think stairs are woke - as a man you should be able to just climb up any incline, no matter how steep, without the intervention of engineers or builders. Stairs remove things like the possibility of landslides, thistles and venomous creatures, and that's pathetic. But you're right: escalators and lifts are on a completely different echelon of woke.

Also, magnets are woke.

26 minutes ago, JJJ said:

People should stop with the Hawks comp. The issues they had early last season do not reflect ours.

They were reaching a little on their game plan in terms of execution. Even against us, they tried to maintain the ball too much and eventually succumbed to our pressure. But they never rolled over or stopped running and trying to create.

Currently, we don’t win our own footy, we don’t spread when we do eventually get the footy, we don’t chase, we don’t shepherd, we are poor at tackling and defensively we are lacking. These are pretty much all nonnegotiable’s. They are intangibles that are a sign of a team that, to put it in Goody’s language, love each other.

On top of that, our players look confused, lacking confidence and are making skill errors at an alarming rate. I can get over the the skill execution if I think we are adhering to my previous paragraph as I think the worm can turn if you do those intangibles.

To me this is a leadership problem. That includes coaching and senior players. Goody, if he isn’t in the gun, absolutely should be. He hasn’t instilled the basics and doesn’t enforce them clearly. Otherwise we’d see more changes at selection. We’d see repeat offenders held to account. He also has failed numerous times to change our style. He has historically played favourites. Now it’s those favourites that are hurting us the most.

Regarding on field leadership. It was time for a change in October last year. Max, Viney et al don’t need to have C or VC next to their name to be leaders but it sure would help players like McVee or JVR or Rivers or Chandler to be acknowledged and empower them. (They are some names the club thinks have potential in that space) We have a massive void which is so obvious to see, it staggers me that it hasn’t been addressed.

But ultimately, if you trace the above back to its root cause, it all leads to the same spot. Our coaching and match committee. Our coaching and match committee and decisions they’ve made in the previous 5-6 years which have brought the club undone from a performance perspective.

Great post and as you say, these aren't new problems, they've been ongoing for years. The amount of unbelievable spin to come out of the club has now been called out finally for what it is.

35 minutes ago, SFebes said:

Great post and as you say, these aren't new problems, they've been ongoing for years. The amount of unbelievable spin to come out of the club has now been called out finally for what it is.

PR only works if it comes across as sincere. I think the publicity campaign since 23 has been pretty uninspired and disingenuous to say the least. It's very frustrating.

1 hour ago, BoBo said:

Stairs aren’t woke, they’re for real men. Escalators and elevators are woke. Anybody that uses them for any reason are just weak.

My shopping centre only has escalators and ramps

A little part of me dies every time I have to go there

On 10/11/2024 at 10:44, Bring-Back-Powell said:

Does he survive an 11th-13th finish / 10 to 11 wins?

I understand there are a lot factors and reasons behind a win/loss record but you’d have to say it would be a very line ball call.
 

 

The way we are playing at present BBP I find it difficult to see us winning more than a couple of games. When you get beaten by North by 10 goals you know things are bad. He won't survive past this season. It's time

I’m not completely on the “Goody must go” bandwagon just yet but I’m having a good look to see if there room for one more there.

I like Goody and will always be grateful for the flag and will always have happy memories of him.

What I will say is that I’m not in favour of him seeing the season out if he’s not going to be here at the start of next season. If we are going to make the call I would rather we do it around the bye. I know it will probably be harder to recruit a new coach mid season as most will be involved with other clubs but I think it would be better than waiting until the end of season.

It would give us the jump on other clubs who will be looking for coaches, it would allow the new coach to have a proper look at the cattle he has to work with and how the club runs. Would also allow him to have input into player comings and goings and who might be best suited to the game plan he will implement.

At this stage I would be saying to Goody you have until round 10 to turn it around. He deserves the fans and clubs respect but at some stage we will have to make a call if things don’t improve.

2 hours ago, The Taciturn Demon said:

I think stairs are woke - as a man you should be able to just climb up any incline, no matter how steep, without the intervention of engineers or builders. Stairs remove things like the possibility of landslides, thistles and venomous creatures, and that's pathetic. But you're right: escalators and lifts are on a completely different echelon of woke.

Also, magnets are woke.

Yeah you’re right actually.

I’ll say 200 slurs before bed tonight instead of my usual 100 as penance.

I look at a game plan as each play having a % chance of working out.

An attacking game plan which requires shorter kicks and more hand balls needs each possession to work at a significantly higher % rate to work compared to a kick it long and direct one.

More possessions to gain ground without turning it over needs players to create space and foot skills to maintain a high % of retention and/or gut running through the midfield for a chain of handballs. There is no room for error or a weak link and the team has to be on the same page and know exactly what we are trying to do.

Personally I'd put our best marks and readers of flight into the forwards and just get it in there if they can't spot a open target.

3 players need to go in there. Gawn, May/Lever, and Viney as a hard at it forward crummer.

Campbell to ruck, Johnson back and Kossie/Sparrow splitting the midfield time.

% ball FTW!

18 hours ago, Macca said:

Must be that Goodwin demeaner that annoys you? I mean, he's a bit boring (not that that bothers me one iota)

“Boring” is one word for it, I guess.

Macca, might I kindly suggest that if you’re so vehemently of the opinion that Goodwin is not the problem (or at least a significant part of it) then this thread might not be for you?

7 hours ago, Macca said:

It's a minor miracle we got so close

But again, the reason we got so close was because we had a stellar Midfield and a stellar Defence

I would argue that was the case in 2022 & 23.

T-Mac going down midway in 2022 and BBB's injury woes plus the exit of LJ (brain exited early 2022 and body followed in the off season) and Smith sealed our fate i think.

The 2024 off field shenanigans killed that season off completely.

If we had just one medium forward or KF on the park and firing at the end of 22 or 23 we probably make at least another GF.

Losing Gus so early against the Pies a huge loss as well. He was in stellar form coming into that game.