PREGAME: Rd 18 vs Essendon

[Demon Dynasty 17,109]

43 minutes ago, picket fence said:

And Kicked like a schoolboy Back Pocket player you mean?? Have a close look at Jeffo's goals this year and you'll see the difference in accuracy and a no nonsense no nervous set shot routine

Agree, at VFL level his set shot kicking is a joy to watch.  He probably needs another pre-season to build his frame & tank but right at the moment he isn't as far off AFL as some might think.

If finals became mathematically inpossible we should start getting a few games into him imho.

[kev martin 10,397]

I'd like Petty to ruck. He will compete, and at any opportunity, attempt to bring the pain to their mids. The aggression that he shows is something that can only enhance Viney's, Sparrow's and ANB's pressure game. Bring on the "bruiser".

[Philthy84 41]

The Forward line worked really well with JVR, Fritsch, Disco and Melky last week.

I would have Petty play a similar role to Gawny, Rucking 80% of the game and then having Disco, JVR and Tmac roating through at stages. Hell, even chuck Clarry in for some centre bounces.

I must say after spending one week out with a hamstring complaint, I have concerns over Petty being able to play out a full game but need to back in the Coach etc.

[Philthy84 41]

2 minutes ago, kev martin said:

I'd like Petty to ruck. He will compete, and at any opportunity, attempt to bring the pain to their mids. The aggression that he shows is something that can only enhance Viney's, Sparrow's and ANB's pressure game. Bring on the "bruiser".

Exactly! Petty has some absolute Cya You Next Tuesday in him. Gawn doesn't.

What Petty lacks in ruck craft, he will make up for being an absolute pest to the opposition IMO.

[58er 6,538]

3 hours ago, Fromgotowoewodin said:

You pick your best 22 to win games, not to keep players happy in case they get a better offer in the trade period. 

If we knew Gus was going to get concussed in the QF and then retire preseason then maybe we should’ve given Jordon more game time through 2023 but that’d be some extreme Nostradamus foresight. He wasn’t good enough to win a spot over others so he played as sub. Toby was behind Kos, Chandler, ANB and probably would still be now.. you can’t fit everyone in, that’s just how it goes. Nothing shameful about it. 

Don’t agree as it is a history repeating itself again with different players. Their actions in leaving ( wanting to) are the result of too many ins and outs and sub appointments over 2/3 years.

Look at the results on both players regular in a top side and consistently used. They also feel wanted. 

[Cranky Franky 2,089]

3 hours ago, The Swimming Dee said:

The Coach bashing is so tiresome.

What's more tiresome is wasting 2017, 2019, 2020 & 2022 & wasting an outstanding list & continually trying strategies that have regularly failed.

[Pennant St Dee 13,301]

1 hour ago, beelzebub said:

And yet hes an emergency which to me negates the notion he can't play at AFL 

Do Essendon know how we are going into this game?

Are we keeping them guessing, will they make a late change and bring Fullerton in?

They haven't selected both Goldstein and Draper to absolutely work Fullerton over if he was to play

Are we hedging our bets pending weather?

There's many potential reasons for the selection, which I am sure you are aware of

[jnrmac 20,154]

5 hours ago, Ollie fan said:

I just don't understand this post - unless Jnrmac is saying that we should have played Jordon and Bedford more often, and thus kept them. 
 

The thing is, if they weren't first 22, why would they be picked? Should we have dropped a first 22 player back to Casey just to play an inferior player? And clearly, they weren't seen as first 22 - at the time, quite rightly.

Squads win premierships not 22 players. The notion of 'they're not best 22' went out with the Ark.

You need to rotate players in your squad. Bedford was sub 8 times. Is it any wonder he left? Jordon sat on the bench for the entire GF and was a sub numerous times. Is it any wonder he left? Fullarton would be mighty [censored] that he was lured to Melbourne and can't get a game. Where does that leave the club if he takes off again?

Darren Jolly left years ago because Daniher only played Jeff White. Jolly was brought on for around 6 mins a qtr. He left and played in premierships at Collingwood and at Sydney. But he wasn't best 22 at Melbourne? C'mon.

You can't let players languish in the Dewies otherwise they will leave. And when you need them they won't be there.

 

[middleagedemon 325]

2 hours ago, Binmans PA said:

His track record.

Or ridiculous claims like this when recently out of the game - https://www.foxsports.com.au/afl/former-richmond-assistant-coach-david-king-declares-the-tigers-a-certainty-for-afl-top-eight-in-2011/news-story/eda5d63e30819aa35bf90014d0650476

He's a click chaser. That's his job.

You said his 'analysis' is iffy? 

I that article (from 2011!), he states that Richmond are guaranteed to make finals and he got it wrong? Hardly analysis. It was an opinion based on the fact he'd worked closely with that group of players. Wow. 

Im not entirely sure what point you're trying to make. 

I already said he gets many things wrong due to how often he features across various media forms and how many opinions he has to throw out there. 

If his 'track record' of opinions over the years is going to dictate whether you rate him, that's fine. 

I don't measure it like that. I don't actually care about his opinions on whether a team will win or lose week to week. I think that when he deep dives and gets into actual analysis on either crunchtime, Whately on Mondays or First crack, he offers a lot and there's a lot to be gleaned as a supporter on the 'outside'. 

If others disagree, that's more than coooool. 

Edited July 12 by middleagedemon

[Greendale 350]

1 hour ago, dice said:

Not sure what stats you are looking at. He is currently on track for more kicks, kicking efficiency, disposals inside 50, metres gained, ground ball gets, inside 50 marks, more shots on goal, goal assists, tackles, pressure acts, spoils, one percenters on last year's stats.

And again, 7 games to go plus finals. Sheesh

Kicking efficiency is actually down significantly, you were probably looking at kick % which is just the kick/handball ratio as a percentage. Inside 50 marks are up very slightly but overall marks are down, and contested marks are down significantly. He's having more shots per game but scoring noticeably less. Really pressure acts are the only stat that he's had a significant increase in.

Also worth factoring in that he's a forward in a side that's performing more strongly than last year. If he hadn't improved or declined this year then one would expect his stats to be up anyway, due to more access of the ball. I rate Amiss a lot, but the stats couldn't argue against an improvement any more conclusively.

[jnrmac 20,154]

5 hours ago, John Demonic said:

It was a long time ago, but after that bath they gave us in gather round, I wouldn't expect any less than them being supremely confident they can out ruck us and out run us. 

That was also in the wet without Gawn. Grundy was pantsed Was totally unfit

[middleagedemon 325]

52 minutes ago, titan_uranus said:

Being an ex-player obviously gives you knowledge that the rest of us don't have.

It doesn't make you a good commentator.

King is not a particularly good commentator, because he says stupid things and changes his opinion all the time.

For example:

1. A few years back he did a big thing about how the top 8 had the same W-L record against each other. Which was how maths works, not some sort of insight into the evenness of the top 8.
2. This year he said in April that only three sides could win the flag - Geelong, GWS and Carlton. Those three sides went something like 1-8 over the next three weeks, two of them fell away so much that the debate turned to whether they'd make finals, and his analysis obviously ignored the current flag favourite (Sydney) and the next best side (Fremantle).
3. Pre-season he said we weren't going to make finals until we beat Carlton in a pre-season match and then he said we would make finals. Which is stupid because pre-season matches shouldn't make that level of difference to your opinion on any side.

I give him plenty of credit for at least looking for the stats and using them when he can. That beats out a fair portion of other commentators who don't even look at the numbers. But that doesn't mean his opinions are good. 

See above ^

[binman 43,704]

15 minutes ago, Cranky Franky said:

What's more tiresome is wasting 2017, 2019, 2020 & 2022 & wasting an outstanding list & continually trying strategies that have regularly failed.

Some of your best work cranky.

[Greendale 350]

David King is an expert at cherrypicking stats and presenting them in a convincing manner. Case in point https://streamable.com/93bnox 

[picket fence 17,462]

1 hour ago, Queanbeyan Demon said:

Turn it up @picket fence. Down at TH King oval the pockets are deep and wide. My best year was when I only kicked it out of bounds on the full an average of once a quarter. That sounds bad, but we were so [censored] the ball tended to be in my zone a fair bit of the time. Some games it was only me that stood between a 10 goal loss and a 17 goal one.

I smacked a Ton at TH KING ! Vs Glen Iris, annnnd snagged a few goals there as well😁 Luuurved that ground!

Edited July 12 by picket fence

[Billy 2,544]

Can we get the 2020/2021 version of Clarry Oliver back for just this one game?

PLEASE

[Fromgotowoewodin 1,606]

35 minutes ago, 58er said:

Don’t agree as it is a history repeating itself again with different players. Their actions in leaving ( wanting to) are the result of too many ins and outs and sub appointments over 2/3 years.

Look at the results on both players regular in a top side and consistently used. They also feel wanted. 

History will repeat at every club every year as players that can’t crack the 1s leave for other opportunities. It happens. 

You mention Laurie, Brown & Woey - well if Laurie can get a regular spot in anyone else’s 1s good on him, I don’t see it myself. Brown and Woey too early to know if they’ll make it, and too early for either of them to be cracking the sads about selection too imo. 

Who do you drop for those 3? 

[Guest]

2 hours ago, Abyssal said:

The definition of a “pot shot” is quite subjective. My recollection is, I believe before WCE in Perth, you “potted” my suggestion of Fullarton coming in for the match with comments that were not complementary to the player.
That’s my recollection and no, I haven’t gone back to check, preferring not to spend anymore time on a forum than necessary, which on the contrary could lead to eventually becoming obsessive, prejudiced and perpetually wearing a “one eyed blinker”.

As I said “it’s subjective”, and all opinions are just that. That’s something, IMO, that is lost on a select clique in this place.

Of course you haven’t 🙄

It’s pointless checking coz IT WASN’T ME!

Anyone can accuse anyone else of saying things but without the proof it means sweet [censored] all.

EITHER…

show me where I even slightly disparaged Tom

OR…

STFU

Simple, really. Even for someone like you.

[Ollie fan 3,468]

45 minutes ago, Cranky Franky said:

What's more tiresome is wasting 2017, 2019, 2020 & 2022 & wasting an outstanding list & continually trying strategies that have regularly failed.

This "outstanding list" stuff is so often used to bash the coach. 
 

The truth is: we had and still have 3-5 absolute champions, and quite a few good players behind them. But so do our competitors!! Eg Carlton have had Cripps and Walsh, Weitering and Curnow. Footscray have many good players starting with Bont.  Brisbane have got many good players starting with Neale but all around the ground. Etc etc etc. We are not the only team in the league and premierships are not given for the asking. And we have had some bad luck at critical times, most notably the injury demolition of our forward line at the pointy end of last season, not to mention what happened to Gus.

 

Time to move on. We have won a flag, we have been consistently right up there, we are regularly pointed to as a model of defensive setup, and we have brought in a heap of good young players to take us forward. Let's support them!

[rpfc 28,727]

2 hours ago, Binmans PA said:

I think it'll more likely be 50/50 Petty and Turner tbh. Goody signalled in his presser that we have to balance JVRs dominance as a forward vs rucking him.

I would prefer JVR remain forward, has Turner rucked before? Draper would cut him in half???

[Adam The God 30,403]

1 minute ago, rpfc said:

I would prefer JVR remain forward, has Turner rucked before? Draper would cut him in half???

Turner has rucked in at least 2 or 3 games now. He did some rucking last week for example.

I agree I'd prefer JVR forward, but he does go through patches of the game where the ball doesn't go near him. In those circumstances, I'd prefer to get him involved around the footy. So a bit of a case by case basis.

[loges 6,767]

1 hour ago, binman said:

Zero chance they are Prodee.

That's an insult to my old sparring partner (who by the by is now posting as gator).

He needs to post more often.

[Adam The God 30,403]

Yep, @Gator is an excellent poster.

[middleagedemon 325]

2 hours ago, binman said:

Zero chance they are Prodee.

That's an insult to my old sparring partner (who by the by is now posting as gator).

We've done plenty of sparring over the journey, my old mate. 

[loges 6,767]

Don't get the wrist slashing because Fullerton, an average VFL player is not selected, he's never going to be the difference between winning or losing. Obviously selectors feel the net gain to the side is as chosen, we just have to find other ways to beat them. Bombers are no better than any other side still vying for finals. They have ridden a soft draw, they're 3rd but look at their percentage. when really challenged by Port and the cats they were putrid, beat an out of form Collingwood last week. If we bring the effort as against Brisbane there's no reason we can't win, may  even win easily.