Use of the sub

[Rocknroll 1,005]

I feel Goody is very conservative about using the sub.  

He holds back using it.  Maybe there are injuries involved.  Last two weeks I feel he pulled the trigger way to late. 

 

Any thoughts? An I missing Something?

 

[MrFreeze 1,995]

Once they subbed their young tall forward their running power increased a lot, then once Petty was injured it amplified this issue. Sub should have happened much quicker.

[Redleg 41,450]

1 hour ago, Rocknroll said:

I feel Goody is very conservative about using the sub.  

He holds back using it.  Maybe there are injuries involved.  Last two weeks I feel he pulled the trigger way to late. 

 

Any thoughts? An I missing Something?

 

Agree. Hardly see the tactical sub use from him.

I still think JJ never got over not getting on the ground in the 21 flag when team mates like Harmes were happy to come off to give him a run.

I thought that was very poor from the Coach and then when he was often a sub, it caused him to leave.

I think we win last night with JJ stopping one of the Lions’ mids.

Spilt milk now.

 

Edited June 29 by Redleg

[Demon17 5,203]

1 hour ago, Rocknroll said:

I feel Goody is very conservative about using the sub.  

He holds back using it.  Maybe there are injuries involved.  Last two weeks I feel he pulled the trigger way to late. 

 

Any thoughts? An I missing Something?

 

Not you, but the club is missing strategic thinking in the box, (hello Adem).

Very concerned the last 2 results hsould never have been what they were. 

I understand some selection issues and getting game time into younger players.

 

[deanox 9,989]

4 minutes ago, Redleg said:

Agree. Hardly see the tactical sub use from him.

I still think JJ never got over not getting on the ground in the 21 flag when team mates like Harmes were happy to come off to give him a run.

I thought that was very poor from the Coach and then when he was often a sub, it caused him to leave.

I think we win last night with JJ stopping one of the Lions’ mids.

Spilt milk now.

 

While I've always felt the same, it has occurred to me that the club wanted to leave nothing to chance.

The sub then was strictly medical. Could you have imagined the potential uproar if we had made a non medical sub and been called out on it? There may have been a decision to just simply not risk a cloud on the premiership.

It sucks. It sucks for JJ. But it also might not have been a lack of desire to get him on.

[Gorgoroth 13,021]

7 minutes ago, deanox said:

While I've always felt the same, it has occurred to me that the club wanted to leave nothing to chance.

The sub then was strictly medical. Could you have imagined the potential uproar if we had made a non medical sub and been called out on it? There may have been a decision to just simply not risk a cloud on the premiership.

It sucks. It sucks for JJ. But it also might not have been a lack of desire to get him on.

May had a 6cm tear in his hammy...

There would have been no repercussions from taking him off.

[Redleg 41,450]

1 minute ago, Gorgoroth said:

May had a 6cm tear in his hammy...

There would have been no repercussions from taking him off.

When 12 goals up with 5 minutes to go there would have been no problem.

[John Crow Batty 8,879]

16 minutes ago, deanox said:

While I've always felt the same, it has occurred to me that the club wanted to leave nothing to chance.

The sub then was strictly medical. Could you have imagined the potential uproar if we had made a non medical sub and been called out on it? There may have been a decision to just simply not risk a cloud on the premiership.

It sucks. It sucks for JJ. But it also might not have been a lack of desire to get him on.

But just about every other club were already corrupting the medical sub system that season and the AFL did bugger all about it. 

Edited June 29 by John Crow Batty

[Jaded No More 68,974]

9 minutes ago, Gorgoroth said:

May had a 6cm tear in his hammy...

There would have been no repercussions from taking him off.

This. We should have taken May off for JJ. 
But Goodwin probably didn’t want to be killed by May moments before winning a flag 😂

[Rocknroll 1,005]

How does doggie jr feel? Reckon it would be pretty empowering ro the group at 3/4 time announcing the young kid is coming on. 
 

might lift the team for him. Also make jnr feel like he is not an afterthought 

[DeeSpencer 26,082]

Who should we have subbed off last night?

The moment Petty came off we looked small up forward and gave up easy intercept marks.

If we made the move late in the 3rd we’ve had been down 2 when Petty went off.

Brown looked fairly ineffective on a wing and our half forwards were doing pretty well. 

Waiting as late as possible so he’s got a big freshness advantage was probably the right call.

[deanox 9,989]

32 minutes ago, Gorgoroth said:

May had a 6cm tear in his hammy...

There would have been no repercussions from taking him off.

Yeah I agree, I reckon this was the right call. But if he wasn't complaining or getting checked my medicos,the situation of "call him of the ground and sub for JJ" could draw scrutiny in the way I suggested it.

I also agree other clubs were rotting it during the year.

 

All I'm saying is that maybe there were legitimate factors that, inside our clubs football department, established a process for how/when to use the sub while complying with the rules, and maybe they were followed to the letter on grand final day so as not to risk anything.

That level of integrity and risk aversion on our big day might not be consistently how other clubs might have done it, nor with how some of us might have done it. But that doesn't mean claims that "Goodwin treated JJ poorly by not getting him on" are fair.

[Deecisive 1,709]

i agree 100% Goodwin does not know how to use a fresh spare man deemed to be amongst our best 24 players at the time that we need them most. We were obviously getting run over by a faster finishing lion team and he kept brown fresh,  fast and eager who saved our bacon last week sitting on the bench while others could not run. i really cannot comprehend why he would do that, he can blame the players for playing defensively but he needs to also take the blame for not giving them a running player who could have certainly helped both defensively in attack and for not moving players around to combat the lions or address our shortfalls. 

Last year in the finals we could have brought on a sub but chose not to. again i can not understand why you would not use that player unless you believe they are only something you go to as a very last resort, if that is the case then our choices in subs is definitely a problem. all in all i am starting to think that our flag winning team could have won under any coach, as i dont see a lot of decisions or changes from this guy when changes need to be made. i mean to say how long did it take to get petty into the forward line when he seemed an obvious option at the time. now the backline is probably the best option for him as he can work well with lever and may and the backline team to turn defense into attack again. and maybe he can get some of his mojo back and go back to the forward line when he is in better form.

[gs77 4,445]

54 minutes ago, Gorgoroth said:

May had a 6cm tear in his hammy...

There would have been no repercussions from taking him off.

Sadly for JJ he was the 23rd man selected that day. Yes, a medical sub could have been made taking May off, but did May, as one of the best 22 selected that day, deserve to be benched and tracksuited, to be robbed of the chance to be on the ground when the final siren went?

[Gorgoroth 13,021]

1 hour ago, gs77 said:

Sadly for JJ he was the 23rd man selected that day. Yes, a medical sub could have been made taking May off, but did May, as one of the best 22 selected that day, deserve to be benched and tracksuited, to be robbed of the chance to be on the ground when the final siren went?

Sure being on the ground at the end would have been great but as a teammate knowing I came off for 5 mins so he could run around. No problem. As others have stated Harmes offered a fake twinge. 

The AFL wouldn't have cared.

[Fromgotowoewodin 1,606]

3 hours ago, Gorgoroth said:

May had a 6cm tear in his hammy...

There would have been no repercussions from taking him off.

AFL would’ve fined him for staging and taken the flag off us 

[Cranky Franky 2,091]

I think Goodie will go down as a very average coach who underachieved badly.

He is inflexible, stubborn & tactically slow on match days. 

He has cost us 3 games that I can recall by not adjusting the selected side when torrential rain was forecast.

He persists with"pet" players who are out of form & lacks any lateral thinking and persists with a forward coach & structure that have been mostly dysfunctional for 3 years.

Longmire immediately turned JJ into this season's best tagger while Goodie just wasted him.

We are now marking time until he leaves.

 

[whatwhat say what 22,948]

8 minutes ago, Cranky Franky said:

I think Goodie will go down as a very average coach who underachieved badly.

He is inflexible, stubborn & tactically slow on match days. 

He has cost us 3 games that I can recall by not adjusting the selected side when torrential rain was forecast.

He persists with"pet" players who are out of form & lacks any lateral thinking and persists with a forward coach & structure that have been mostly dysfunctional for 3 years.

Longmire immediately turned JJ into this season's best tagger while Goodie just wasted him.

We are now marking time until he leaves.

 

couldn't agree with this less

[Nascent 9,283]

In case anyone missed it he was on the ground for a good 5 minutes before any of the commentators realised and had about 10minutes on the ground in total. Would have been nice to get him on earlier but wasn't 4 minutes as suggested.

[Rocknroll 1,005]

20 hours ago, DeeSpencer said:

Who should we have subbed off last night?

The moment Petty came off we looked small up forward and gave up easy intercept marks.

If we made the move late in the 3rd we’ve had been down 2 when Petty went off.

Brown looked fairly ineffective on a wing and our half forwards were doing pretty well. 

Waiting as late as possible so he’s got a big freshness advantage was probably the right call.

Good point,

 

I will preface rhis as i am not a coach, and i dont have live stats to see who's running is down, who is flagging.

 

but to try answer your question, he could go for a like with like, kolt, chandler or young woey

 

or try with a smaller foward line with disco or petty.

 

all these changes have faults, but it is trying something. And adding run, which is what we lacked in the last.

[Tracca 853]

17 hours ago, Cranky Franky said:

I think Goodie will go down as a very average coach who underachieved badly.

He is inflexible, stubborn & tactically slow on match days. 

He has cost us 3 games that I can recall by not adjusting the selected side when torrential rain was forecast.

He persists with"pet" players who are out of form & lacks any lateral thinking and persists with a forward coach & structure that have been mostly dysfunctional for 3 years.

Longmire immediately turned JJ into this season's best tagger while Goodie just wasted him.

We are now marking time until he leaves.

 

Windhager is the best tagger in the afl by a mile.