4 hours ago, Pennant St Dee said:

Ffs talk about clutching. Who needs journalists to kick us when we’re down when we have our own supporters.

Gawn is not now or ever will be a forward and neither is Grundy, if you think differently you have NFI

Couldn't agree more

Grundy was playing on a very inexperienced player in the last match (v Crows).

18 hours ago, Billy said:

Surely getting rid of Grundy, Jordon & Bedford & bringing in Shcache, Hunter & Billings & oh yeah not trading Petty for two first round draft picks is enough to stamp Goodwins papers 

We tried the Gawn/Grundy experiment for about two games, played Jordon as the sub more games than not & preferred Hunter!!! & to top it of hardly gave Bedford a chance & re signed Chandler, Spargo & Laurie

But we’ve got a great culture???

We will lose to North next week, put your house on it 

Its been a disaster since the 2021 Covid premiership 

Over & out

Note that I'm laughing re your tirade not that we will lose to North. I reckon were only about a 70% chance to beat North.

9 hours ago, DubDee said:

A player we traded out is playing well for another team

Get over it.  Never heard so much whinging in my life.

We got him in, it didn't work.

Move on

Yeah, but thats not the piont, its WHY  we didn't make it work, that is in question!!

My 2 cents 

Grundy and infact the swans generally are having a nice run of form. Are they good enough to win the cup ? Personally I have my doubts still

I think they are a really solid well drilled and coached footy team 

Grundy has his limitations and can’t jump, can’t mark in contested situations and rarely if ever goals. He is good at scrapping and blocking and following up with contest when the ball is on the ground. However he is pretty slow and his disposal skills are just ok 

It’s a shame that things didn’t work out at MFC with Brodie but we lost so much more losing LJ than Grundy make no mistake 

We do need a genuine back up for Max but that doesn’t need to be a 2x AA it needs to be someone physically capable of a strong contest against AFL quality rucks - I think that’s one of our big weaknesses atm 

22 hours ago, The heart beats true said:

Honestly Grundy has played a handful of good games this year, most of them against D list ruckmen. His game against Max needs to be viewed with the understanding that Gawn was very unwell, and probably shouldn’t have played.

If anyone reckons Grundy should still be at the club, and rucking for us, go watch the replay of our gather round game last year against Essendon when Max was injured. Draper absolutely annihilated Grundy, and made him look unfit and lazy. Draper kicked three goals on Grundy purely from out working him. 

Grundy wasn’t in good form for us last year. It’s not the clubs fault he didn’t do the preparation or have the desire to make it work. He’s a different player this year purely because he wants to be. He was happy to sign the contract last year, but not do much to make it work.

It’s boring having to discuss him. Go watch the replays of how he played last year for us. He was poor.

Whilst I agree with the thrust of your post I know no evidence that Grundy wasn’t fit . That’s unfair 

1 hour ago, picket fence said:

Yeah, but thats not the piont, its WHY  we didn't make it work, that is in question!!

ok. why we didn’t make it work? we tried it for many games. neither is a forward. We made a big change by Gawn not being first ruck always

what didn’t we try?

sometimes stuff doesn’t work but at least we tried something different 

21 hours ago, Chook said:

Getting rid of Grundy smacks of an overcorrection possibly due to egos at the club not willing to give things enough time to find a good balance. Max Gawn was always the better forward of the two. When Grundy came to the club I thought the plan would be to move Max forward/ruck and have Grundy be our main ruck. I still think that could have worked, except Max couldn't or wouldn't do it.

I love Max, but this was a huge fail from him imo. Goody also, for not putting his foot down and making it work. Just banish Grundy to the VFL for no reason and play a backup ruck he's not even willing to put on the ground. Awful.

Well the Grundy interview on the Seven network shows that Grundy  wanted to go, we could have insisted he stay, but we agreed to let him go. IMV the correct decision tho I share the disappointment that the plan failed.

8 hours ago, praha said:

I find it so hard to believe that it "simply didn't work". We played good football with both in the side. Gave up way too early. And then picked Schache over him in a final. 

To top it off we ship him to another contender. Smh.

how many teams do you know play two dominant first rucks who can’t play fwd?

Schache was brought in to cover for Weid leaving as you would know

6 hours ago, Deemania since 56 said:

I do miss JJ, my thinking was that he was maturing onfield to become a reliable, regular crumber about the packs and moving well to space (for when the midfielders decided to play eyes-up, for a change). He did not present star qualities but displayed undertones of maturing in his role, alongside improving performance consistency. At the Dees, he deserved more attention and experience, I thought.

Well I agree with all you say, but what you don’t mention is that we lost Brayshaw just before the start of the season . Had he still been playing would JJ be?

9 hours ago, jnrmac said:

Any truth that Gawn threw the toys out of the pram?

So you suggesting our captain cracked it and was thinking of himself rather than the team?

This is bloke that united us and got our first flag in almost 60 years. Deliberately staying on the bench during the GF so a kid could stay on. Gawn is a selfless team first man. 

Remember the old days when DL posters used to bag Jordon and ask for him to be dropped

Now he is the missing link

guess i shouldn’t be surprised 

9 hours ago, praha said:

I find it so hard to believe that it "simply didn't work". We played good football with both in the side. Gave up way too early. And then picked Schache over him in a final. 

To top it off we ship him to another contender. Smh.

Yes we should’ve known at the time that *8th placed Sydney would be red-hot flag favourites this year. 🙄 
 

*who really shouldn’t have even been in the eight anyways. 

Hashtag sack Nostradamus!!!

Edited June 17, 20241 yr by WalkingCivilWar

On 16/06/2024 at 20:49, Jibroni said:

James Jordan has been ok for them as well.

It happens. Sometimes good players do better at other clubs. Langdon, for example. 

8 hours ago, Sydee said:

My 2 cents 

Grundy and infact the swans generally are having a nice run of form. Are they good enough to win the cup ? Personally I have my doubts still

I think they are a really solid well drilled and coached footy team 

Grundy has his limitations and can’t jump, can’t mark in contested situations and rarely if ever goals. He is good at scrapping and blocking and following up with contest when the ball is on the ground. However he is pretty slow and his disposal skills are just ok 

It’s a shame that things didn’t work out at MFC with Brodie but we lost so much more losing LJ than Grundy make no mistake 

We do need a genuine back up for Max but that doesn’t need to be a 2x AA it needs to be someone physically capable of a strong contest against AFL quality rucks - I think that’s one of our big weaknesses atm 

so why hasnt it been addressed?

11 hours ago, Farmer said:

Well I agree with all you say, but what you don’t mention is that we lost Brayshaw just before the start of the season . Had he still been playing would JJ be?

I think so, analysing this point. We do need mobility and quicker smalls in the forward line linkages, plus there was much about Brayshaw's game that could have been imparted in the mid-term to a willing newby, such as JJ. The loss of Gus was one that enormously cruelled us as a linkage team under the circumstances and he was particularly adept at sneaking up, deep, to present his reliable goal-kicking abilities (so in effect, I was thinking under the tutelage role, Gus would have had a great impact over the mid-term on JJ's skill and consistency performances). Who really knows? 

On 17/06/2024 at 09:15, Dee*ceiving said:

The failure of the FD to make Gawn/Grundy work was astonishingly poor. 

They had one plan! One! 

• It's a 23 game season, why was it necessary for them to both picked every week? 
• Could we not have planned for them both to play ~16 games? Hence 7 games where only one of them plays? 
• Could we not have been smart enough, injuries permitting, to make sure these games are against teams that play two ruckmen?
• Could we not have used this flexibility to avoid Max travelling interstate 8+ times a season? 
• Could we not have subbed one of the two off occassionaly if it wasn't working mid game?

Max didn't hit the scorebard for a run of 4 games, in June...

• R13 defeated Collingwood 66-62 (BG: 13 disposals, 5 marks, 26 HOs 1g1b; MG 15 disposals, 6 marks 17 HOs)
• R15 lost to Geelong  63-78 (BG: 13 disposals, 5 marks, 19 HOs; MG 15 disposals, 1 marks 23 HOs;)
• R16 lost to Giants 45-47 (BG: 15 disposals, 3 marks, 16 HOs, 1g0b; MG 20 disposals, 2 marks 17 HOs;)
• R17 defeated Saints 79-58 (BG: 13 disposals, 3 marks, 17 HOs; MG 16 disposals, 6 marks 21 HOs;)

After neither of them were able to hit the scoreboard, in the middle of winter. During a period where our highest conceded score was 78, we went 2Ws & 2Ls vs 4 teams that played finals where one game was played in a hurricane we completely abandoned the concept. Brodie was sent to the VFL until R22 a 56-60 loss to the Blues in the wet! 

Please! This was a balls up of epic proportions. Had we played one ruck v Giants and one v Blues we probably win both those games. Why on earth did we pick Max, Brown and Grundy to play the Giants, in a Hurrican in Alice??? Max should have been rested that game and come in cherry ripe v the Blues. Many of us raised these questions at the time and we were 100% right!

I am a big SG supporter, have been all along but not being able to at least try another tact or two is utterly pathetic and now we've gifted the Swans exactly what they needed to jump from 6-8 to no. 1.

Something isnt right about the whole experiment.

That Brodie was on the outer from rd 17 on says that they put a line through him.

Rd 12 and 13 we beat Carlton and Collingwood - both teams that play two rucks. Yet we chose to go into finals against Carlton and Collingwood without two rucks doesn't ring true for me.

Melbourne, Grundy and Gawn have been very tight lipped about it, only saying nice things about each other but it smells to me. The final nail being the choice of Schache when Max had a broken toe.

One day the story will come out....

13 hours ago, Sydee said:

Grundy has his limitations and can’t jump, can’t mark in contested situations and rarely if ever goals. He is good at scrapping and blocking and following up with contest when the ball is on the ground. However he is pretty slow and his disposal skills are just ok 

Very fair summary.

I'm absolutely baffled by how the decision-makers thought the player described above could fit into our team without one of the best ruckman of the last 20 years being in some way relegated or played out of position. 

It seemed like a good idea at the time.

The big issue was not selecting him in finals.  That and a way too inexperienced sub in Laurie was a big coaching error.

2 hours ago, The Taciturn Demon said:

Very fair summary.

I'm absolutely baffled by how the decision-makers thought the player described above could fit into our team without one of the best ruckman of the last 20 years being in some way relegated or played out of position. 

Because we are consistently doing the "learnings"

16 hours ago, Sydee said:

My 2 cents 

Grundy and infact the swans generally are having a nice run of form. Are they good enough to win the cup ? Personally I have my doubts still

I think they are a really solid well drilled and coached footy team 

Grundy has his limitations and can’t jump, can’t mark in contested situations and rarely if ever goals. He is good at scrapping and blocking and following up with contest when the ball is on the ground. However he is pretty slow and his disposal skills are just ok 

It’s a shame that things didn’t work out at MFC with Brodie but we lost so much more losing LJ than Grundy make no mistake 

We do need a genuine back up for Max but that doesn’t need to be a 2x AA it needs to be someone physically capable of a strong contest against AFL quality rucks - I think that’s one of our big weaknesses atm 

Good points Sydney.

I think Grundys tap work is pretty good and yep he's pretty good for a big man at ground level.

But to consider him as a fwd option wasn't a great idea because as you say he can't mark.

I mean that in itself is a huge indictment on the whole plan. For a bloke not too far from seven feet in height he averages about two marks a game.

And he doesn't get into contests quick enough either. Max reads the play so well and as such we see him constantly in contests from one end of the ground to the other. Max is stronger and less likely to be moved out the way.

 

On 16/06/2024 at 20:46, picket fence said:

Hnmm so Why WHY would not have we gone with BG as the main man, with Max chop out and play MAX more forward???????

We did and it failed, as Max was poor forward and BG was worse.

The only thing you can criticise us fairly for in the BG saga, is not getting more from the Swans, who wanted him as their number 1, when we wanted him as our number 2, or number 1 with Max forward and also not picking him instead of Schache in that final.

Would I love BG now, yes, but he wouldn't have stayed, unless Max retired.

On 16/06/2024 at 23:51, DubDee said:

who cares about the start of the game?

Gawn played plenty of time fwd last year. He had zero impact

2 rucks was a disaster. i can’t believe i need to argue this 

You completely missed the point as usual.

Enjoy arguing with yourself.

10 hours ago, Kent said:

so why hasnt it been addressed?

They probably Fullarton could offer more but the lack of a genuine replacement or back up for Max is a very big fail in terms of list management at this stage 

On 16/06/2024 at 21:19, Farmer said:

Because that is precisely what was proposed. Problem was that Max proved to be a great ruckman, but not a great forward.  It was not a bad idea, but it failed. He is a terrific bloke and I wish him well at Swans 

That worked in the past when we had a third tall up forward ... Luke Jackson ... we didn't try the combo with 3 talls to stretch the defence and put less pressure on Max and Brodie