On 10/06/2024 at 07:23, ElDiablo14 said:

I feel players like Woewodin and Laurie should be promoted.

Trade Petty and Sparrow.

TMac hopefully can go one more year.

BBB, Shache, Billings and Fullarton thanks for your service (well at least in BBB case)

Cmon mate.

They aren’t trading Sparrow, he’s not having a good year, but they’re playing him on a wing and as a High Half fwd when he is an inside mid.

Give Laurie more than 1 or 2 games and see if he can show something, he plays in the midfield at Casey have a look at him at AFL in the middle. Set and forget Woewoden in the 22.

Agree with BBB Shache 🤝 
 

You can call me crazy, but if the right deal came along and we could trade Salem for a high end pick/s and then use that to get a genuine B+ to A grade midfielder. I’d do it in a heart beat. I love him, but he is injury prone and slow, great skills and is tougher than he looks but unless he can consistently start to show his 2021 form he is just another half back.

Apart from our forward like licking windows for 2 years, if we don’t try and replace Brayshaw we could have Carey Ablett and Farmer up forward and we’d still be [censored].

I’d also be paying out Stafford and getting an actual Forward line coach.

 

Edited June 10, 2024Jun 10 by Doug Reemer

No matter what happens between now and the remainder of the year, I plead with the supporters to continue to rock up to games. The only way we will be able to attract free agents and talent is if we consolidate the success of this generation and do not go back to the dark days of 13, 14, 15k crowds at the MCG. Let's continue to get around the group that have brought us so much happiness over the last 3 seasons, and nurture the young guys coming up.

  On 10/06/2024 at 23:06, Doug Reemer said:

Cmon mate.

They aren’t trading Sparrow, he’s not having a good year, but they’re playing him on a wing and as a High Half fwd when he is an inside mid.

Give Laurie more than 1 or 2 games and see if he can show something, he plays in the midfield at Casey have a look at him at AFL in the middle. Set and forget Woewoden in the 22.

Agree with BBB Shache 🤝 
 

You can call me crazy, but if the right deal came along and we could trade Salem for a high end pick/s and then use that to get a genuine B+ to A grade midfielder. I’d do it in a heart beat. I love him, but he is injury prone and slow, great skills and is tougher than he looks but unless he can consistently start to show his 2021 form he is just another half back.

Apart from our forward like licking windows for 2 years, if we don’t try and replace Brayshaw we could have Carey Ablett and Farmer up forward and we’d still be [censored].

I’d also be paying out Stafford and getting an actual Forward line coach.

 

Our defensive unit is certainly stacked so I am open to Salem leaving, he's no longer a critical piece with the likes of McVee, Bowey and Rivers coming through.

My take, for what it's worth.

I suspect BBB, Schache are playing their last season. Hunter, Thommo and Joel Smith out of contract in 2024, unlikely to stay, and will probably test the market or be delisted.  Hore could stay as depth. TMac out of contact at the end of the season will be interesting. Possibly a 1 year contract. Melksham will also be interesting as he's out of contract, if we don't look likely to press hard in finals, he could possibly leave if the motivation isn't there. 

Thommo, I feel for the guy, even this week Goody was singing his praises and then he's dropped again, but for who? He's likely to go as well.

Billings likely depth in 2025.

Turner isn't a forward, not sure Petty is either, so can we stop the charade MFC!

Its not like we haven't played younger players in 2024, but we need to give Woewodin and Laurie a run of games to just play, and some confidence which would also be shot! We may as well see if AMW, Tholstrup and Jefferson have what it takes. Fullerton and McAdam need to show something soon (and they looked ok in the VFL this week at least) 

There are a few positional changes that we should explore, Petracca up forward more, Sparrow inside where he's suited, McVee and Rivers through the midfield rotation. 

Pickett is our only small crumbing option in the forward line. Need to find another one. Chin hasn't had a good season to date.

With all that said, I'm still more concerned with the gameplan change, I think the boys started the season ok, but have lost confidence in it, and they look horrible as a result. Goody keeps saying contest is our DNA, but it feels like with the way we move the ball, when we are trying to be precise and miss targets (which happens a lot), we get caught out of position, slow and are hurt in transition. Plus still i50 sooooo wide :/ 

MFC need to correct this fast, now isn't the time to slide, and yes we have some champion players locked away for a long time, but we've only got Gawn & May for a few more at best, and Tassie on the horizon, I feel the second half of 2024, and 2025 is going to be more about coaching staff & philosophy than playing squad.

  On 10/06/2024 at 07:41, ElDiablo14 said:

Tbf, I believe BBB had one more year in his contract. It was always going to be his decision to make, can't force him to retire.

You push him harder and harder over the summer.  If he can’t run and he can’t bend, then he would have made his own decision by February.  I like BBB but this is no way to crawl in your last year.  Maybe time for crystals and magnets to nurse him through. 

Retired: Brayshaw, McDonald, Brown, Melksham

Delisted: Smith, Hunter, Schache

Traded: Petty

That's eight changes, then there are always unforeseen trade requests or delistings. Would not be surprised if the list hit 10 players.

We'll need to load up at the draft for the first time in years. Agree that 2025 might be a down year, to reload for one last tilt with the current crop. The issue there is Steven May probably won't make it to 2026, and I just can't imagine us winning the flag without him. We'd need to find a KPD in a trade or free agency.

  On 10/06/2024 at 07:38, Bombay Airconditioning said:

I’d like to see Goody release the shackles for the rest of the season, what we’re currently doing isn’t working. If he’s not prepared to do so he needs to step aside. Let’s play a fast paced game and see who can cut it, are the players actually enjoying the game at the moment? 

It’s what they’re doing they just can’t execute the skills. 

Obviously after last week they slowed it up a touch but generally we are going full tilt more often than not 

I shouldn't be surprised by some of the takes on here, maybe I'm just incredulous....

...with all the comments here about "list cloggers", I think some people need to realise that there is 18 teams in the competition and only about one teams worth of great players.  The salary cap ensures that quality players are spread around, so get used to not everyone being Ronald Dale Barassi.  That's why McAdam etc are recruited - it's all very moneyball.

Like every other club, we need to make the best of what we have and minimise risk through our game style. Goodwin does this by getting the team to play a high contest and defensive game.  The issue is that we don't have the skills to execute when we are in attack.

I actually think we were in the contest for a lot of the game yesterday, our disposal let us down (as it has done for...ever).

How many times did the ball ping pong between the half back lines?

How many times did we kick it out on the full or straight to the opposition?

We aren't suddenly going to teach these guys how to kick accurately, we will need to trade in for that.  I dont think we have much in the way of draft picks, so that option is out.

Goodwin absolutely has his favorites, I dare say some of the contracted players for '25 will be up for trades for draft picks or decent kicks. 

I really don't think Goodwin, a Premiership coach, will get sacked unless things go seriously Neeld-shaped.  Stafford etc are probably a different story.

  On 11/06/2024 at 03:51, D Rev said:

I shouldn't be surprised by some of the takes on here, maybe I'm just incredulous....

...with all the comments here about "list cloggers", I think some people need to realise that there is 18 teams in the competition and only about one teams worth of great players.  The salary cap ensures that quality players are spread around, so get used to not everyone being Ronald Dale Barassi.  That's why McAdam etc are recruited - it's all very moneyball.

Like every other club, we need to make the best of what we have and minimise risk through our game style. Goodwin does this by getting the team to play a high contest and defensive game.  The issue is that we don't have the skills to execute when we are in attack.

I actually think we were in the contest for a lot of the game yesterday, our disposal let us down (as it has done for...ever).

How many times did the ball ping pong between the half back lines?

How many times did we kick it out on the full or straight to the opposition?

We aren't suddenly going to teach these guys how to kick accurately, we will need to trade in for that.  I dont think we have much in the way of draft picks, so that option is out.

Goodwin absolutely has his favorites, I dare say some of the contracted players for '25 will be up for trades for draft picks or decent kicks. 

I really don't think Goodwin, a Premiership coach, will get sacked unless things go seriously Neeld-shaped.  Stafford etc are probably a different story.

How much worse do you think it needs to get?

Serious Question btw

 

  On 11/06/2024 at 04:14, Sir Why You Little said:

How much worse do you think it needs to get?

Serious Question btw

 

How much worse does it need to get for Goodwin to go?  I'd say quite a lot.  He's a premiership Coach, which buys you a lot of time. 

He also has the context of this season on his side. Only the Swans and Roos have been consistent this season, everyone else has had wobbles.  Based on how we played earlier in the season, I think it can get a lot better.

The Freo game was awful, but we showed a lot more fight yesterday and it was really poor disposal that let us down.

 

  On 11/06/2024 at 04:19, D Rev said:

How much worse does it need to get for Goodwin to go?  I'd say quite a lot.  He's a premiership Coach, which buys you a lot of time. 

He also has the context of this season on his side. Only the Swans and Roos have been consistent this season, everyone else has had wobbles.  Based on how we played earlier in the season, I think it can get a lot better.

The Freo game was awful, but we showed a lot more fight yesterday and it was really poor disposal that let us down.

 

We haven’t been good this year, apart from the Adelaide Sojourn.
The Forward Connection continues to Haunt us for 3 years now, what makes you think Goodwin is going to fix the problem, if he hasn’t done it already?

I am not crucifying the Coach, but i cannot believe we still have the same gaping problem we had 3 years ago. 
Where are the “Learnings”? Or is, what is being coached just plain wrong.
What concerns me most is that Goodwin sticks around until we hit Rock Bottom and then walks. I would rather salvage the list now. 

  On 11/06/2024 at 04:19, D Rev said:

How much worse does it need to get for Goodwin to go?  I'd say quite a lot.  He's a premiership Coach, which buys you a lot of time. 

He also has the context of this season on his side. Only the Swans and Roos have been consistent this season, everyone else has had wobbles.  Based on how we played earlier in the season, I think it can get a lot better.

The Freo game was awful, but we showed a lot more fight yesterday and it was really poor disposal that let us down.

 

So is Luke Beveridge, we’re all grateful for 2021 but maybe a change is needed.

INS:

We have 6 really vital needs that if we don't address we won't be going anywhere and funnily enough they aren't even our biggest problem.

1. A genuine 2nd ruck, even if they are at Casey most of the time. Can it be Verrall or Fullarton next year - I doubt it.

2. A key forward

3. A key back

4. A winger. Hunter's surely gone, Billings hasn't worked. We need someone capable of filling that role so we have the options to move Langdon and Windsor around. Woey? Maybe?

5. A back pocket. McVee needs to move up a role and Howes isn't it. Can try AMW but I doubt he's it either.

6. A genuine express pace small forward so we can keep pressure on with Kozzie on ball

Aside from the ruck which is a bit of a take what you can get we need guys under 27 with genuine athleticism and hunger for the contest. Whilst it would be nice they don't have to be skilled but we need to get proper competitors in not recruiting guys we know don't like the contest and don't have appetite for it.

That's 6 changes without addressing the number 1 failing which is the on ball brigade. Tracc, Oliver, Viney, Pickett, ANB, Sparrow. It needs reinforcement with numbers and quality. Tholstrup has to be considered as a genuine option from next year (should be playing from next week). Rivers and Salem if we can find more than 1 backline reinforcement - possibly. Our first round pick will most likely be a mid in this draft given the way it's shaping. Let's hope JT nails it and ideally they're ready to go.

 

  On 11/06/2024 at 05:48, Bombay Airconditioning said:

So is Luke Beveridge, we’re all grateful for 2021 but maybe a change is needed.

and simpson at meth coke

their journeys from 2016 and 2018 are instructional - either we generate and return to finals, like footscray, or we fall right away like meth coke

i can't see goodwin getting the flick this season

I don't know that Goody can go, and i'd be fine with that, but Greg Stafford absolutely has to go. I'm not sure about Alan Richardson either.

We also really, really need off-field stability and need to prove to the rest of the competition - as in the players - that the culture is improving. I'd love to know that players like LDU, Yeo and Tom Lynch have Melbourne on their radar as a trade or FA destination.

OUTS

Most of the outs speak for themselves with the older guys but in terms of strategy:

Sparrow - doubt he goes anywhere, he's purely a defensive half forward with some occasional mid and maybe wing based on the last few weeks but no one will want him and he's a hard worker, good culture guy. 

Petty - no point trading him at an all time low value wise unless we sign a ready to go key forward AND key back. He's either going to be CHF or CHB next year unless we do that and it's better to hope for free agent compo for what will still be a valued tall rather than selling him away now.

McDonald - required depth, the challenge is the contract here, does he stay for 1 when a side like North might offer 2+

We need to give someone of value to get someone of value if we wish to really turn the list over.

Oliver - if the deal is right and we get off 80% or so of his contract it probably has to happen.

Fritsch - he's cream on a list with no cake. Would be a great fit for a side like Freo who have a stack of first round picks. Sure, it would be trading our best goal kicker but the reality is when you're forward line is Fritsch then daylight and you don't have a midfield you're nowhere. Maybe McAdam has a preseason, maybe Sestan comes on, maybe we go out and get Zurhaar as a free agent. There's ways to cover a medium forward who's a non structural player and a defensive liability.

There is no new dawn. Bad ..no wait…appalling list management has seen this club throw away all of its depth in the hope that players like Sparrow and Rivers would step up. The fact is, they haven’t. We lost Jackson and the two picks we got for him haven’t gone close to improving us. Not one bit. We are actually bereft of talent at the moment. This is going to get much uglier before it gets brighter again. It’s an absolute fail for the FD and the Board to have allowed this to happen. 

  On 11/06/2024 at 04:39, Sir Why You Little said:

We haven’t been good this year, apart from the Adelaide Sojourn.
The Forward Connection continues to Haunt us for 3 years now, what makes you think Goodwin is going to fix the problem, if he hasn’t done it already?

I am not crucifying the Coach, but i cannot believe we still have the same gaping problem we had 3 years ago. 
Where are the “Learnings”? Or is, what is being coached just plain wrong.
What concerns me most is that Goodwin sticks around until we hit Rock Bottom and then walks. I would rather salvage the list now. 

I politely disagree about our early form. I reckon we were also very good against Geelong - that was as good as we have played in 3 years. The Blues game was also very good for 3 quarters, the slow start obviously hurt.

You'd have to say that some "learnings" (and yes, I hate the term too) come sooner than others.

Our top 6 players are; Max, Viney, Clarrie, Trac, Lever and May - none of them great kicks & I think all of them are safe from trading - so we are are stuck with trying to find skilled players with the remaining cap. Bringing in extra kicking skills is something we tried with Hunter and Billings with the salary cap available, but hasn't really worked. 

Then we had Brayshaws retirement, Clarrie imploding pre season, BBB being tapped on the shoulder by old man time and Petty going on the FBIs missing persons list. I'm not sure what Goodwin could have done about any of that.

On the flipside, TMac has been reborn and we have some good young players coming through in Turner, Windsor, Bowey, JVR and McVee. Kolt, Howes and K Brown (and Jefferson?) come after that.

In reality, we need to get some (a?) Half Forwards that can kick accurately into the forward line so Fritter / JVR / Kozzie arent taking shots from the boundary. This means the likes of Sparrow, Langdon (?) and others will need to be put on the table.

As for hitting rock bottom, it seems like most teams need to do it to come back up again.  We just seem to stay down for longer!

We are too nice. There is no fire in the belly anymore.  

We've always played like gentleman, Goody has coached for it and Gawn has lived it but there used to be an edge. 

Hard at the ball, no backward steps, steely determination. Flying the flag for your mate...it's all gone. 

Bereft of confidence, playing a style they don't enjoy and can't see working. We've got a long way to go.  

Simon is also exhausted, it came through in the article last week. It's all filtering through. 

  On 11/06/2024 at 06:03, Kick_It_To_Pickett said:

There is no new dawn. Bad ..no wait…appalling list management has seen this club throw away all of its depth in the hope that players like Sparrow and Rivers would step up. The fact is, they haven’t. We lost Jackson and the two picks we got for him haven’t gone close to improving us. Not one bit. We are actually bereft of talent at the moment. This is going to get much uglier before it gets brighter again. It’s an absolute fail for the FD and the Board to have allowed this to happen. 

The club doesn't throw away its depth, the depth leaves for other opportunities.  If we look back 12 months Jordan, Harmes and Grundy sitting at Casey, they had chances to cement spots but couldn't.

To me it's nothing to do with fringe players, Viney, Oliver, Petty, Salem, Fritsch, Langdon, Billings have been terrible, May is stuffed playing on smaller running forwards looks slow, Tmac is limited,  B Brown is cooked, no Brayshaw, no Melksham.

Petty had a big price last year, would be lucky to get a third round pick for him.

We are slow both ball movement slow and leg speed slow or we just don't work hard enough to defend.

The one trade we need to consider is 2 first round picks for Oliver, we can't keep going with the same midfield group and Petracca is our must keep, Oliver is the only other one that has any trade value.  Get your 2 first round picks, go after Yeo as free agent to fill the gap for a couple of years.

  On 11/06/2024 at 06:28, drdrake said:

The club doesn't throw away its depth, the depth leaves for other opportunities.  If we look back 12 months Jordan, Harmes and Grundy sitting at Casey, they had chances to cement spots but couldn't.

To me it's nothing to do with fringe players, Viney, Oliver, Petty, Salem, Fritsch, Langdon, Billings have been terrible, May is stuffed playing on smaller running forwards looks slow, Tmac is limited,  B Brown is cooked, no Brayshaw, no Melksham.

Petty had a big price last year, would be lucky to get a third round pick for him.

We are slow both ball movement slow and leg speed slow or we just don't work hard enough to defend.

The one trade we need to consider is 2 first round picks for Oliver, we can't keep going with the same midfield group and Petracca is our must keep, Oliver is the only other one that has any trade value.  Get your 2 first round picks, go after Yeo as free agent to fill the gap for a couple of years.

i think people are forgetting how good clayton was just12-18 months ago. He has had no pre season at all, and is now starting to accumulate the ball again, albeit stil rusty.

 

We owe it to ourselves to give him a full pre season and reevaluate next year, we have put in the ahrd work to get him back playing, lets see if we can reap the rewards

  On 11/06/2024 at 06:28, drdrake said:

The club doesn't throw away its depth, the depth leaves for other opportunities.  If we look back 12 months Jordan, Harmes and Grundy sitting at Casey, they had chances to cement spots but couldn't.

To me it's nothing to do with fringe players, Viney, Oliver, Petty, Salem, Fritsch, Langdon, Billings have been terrible, May is stuffed playing on smaller running forwards looks slow, Tmac is limited,  B Brown is cooked, no Brayshaw, no Melksham.

Petty had a big price last year, would be lucky to get a third round pick for him.

We are slow both ball movement slow and leg speed slow or we just don't work hard enough to defend.

The one trade we need to consider is 2 first round picks for Oliver, we can't keep going with the same midfield group and Petracca is our must keep, Oliver is the only other one that has any trade value.  Get your 2 first round picks, go after Yeo as free agent to fill the gap for a couple of years.

So you trade them for Billings McAdam and Fullerton and you wonder why we are where we are? When Harmes came in he played a role. Same with Jordon. The same can’t be said for any of the replacements. So how is that not bad list management? Opportunities or not, we walked them out the door for a packet of chips

  On 11/06/2024 at 06:57, Tracca said:

i think people are forgetting how good clayton was just12-18 months ago. He has had no pre season at all, and is now starting to accumulate the ball again, albeit stil rusty.

 

We owe it to ourselves to give him a full pre season and reevaluate next year, we have put in the ahrd work to get him back playing, lets see if we can reap the rewards

You won’t get two first round picks for damaged goods. You will get one late first round and a second round. Which will make us even worse. God the insanity here is worse than watching us play

  On 11/06/2024 at 07:11, Kick_It_To_Pickett said:

You won’t get two first round picks for damaged goods. You will get one late first round and a second round. Which will make us even worse. God the insanity here is worse than watching us play

i agree lol.

  On 11/06/2024 at 07:09, Kick_It_To_Pickett said:

So you trade them for Billings McAdam and Fullerton and you wonder why we are where we are? When Harmes came in he played a role. Same with Jordon. The same can’t be said for any of the replacements. So how is that not bad list management? Opportunities or not, we walked them out the door for a packet of chips

Same same, jordon harmes especially harmes were just as bad last year and the year before