My 3 word player analysis V The Beagles

[whatwhat say what 19,314]

bell was horrific. again. his use of the ball makes ward and brown look like superstars; he tries hard, but he's very, very trying.

miller just didn't give a whimper, did he? awful.

i dunno. the losses aren't bothering me anymore. i'm just expecting that they're going to continue to mount up.

[Jerry Lundergard 390]

I agree. I thought Bell was terrible today, but so was our whole backline.

I wonder what they think though, when they are watching the Eagles tear down the ground in numbers without any red jumpers within 10 meters of them. Pretty daunting i think.

The sooner Rivers is back, and Brown and Ward are gone, we'll look better.

[whatwhat say what 19,314]

i think we saw the real effects of 2 close losses.

no one was prepared to chase. at all. the defensive pressure that we thought may be there after getting oh so close for 2 weeks in a row evaporated into the vapour waves of chris judd streaming forward.

oh, for a superstar like that at the mfc.

[45HG 1,539]

at least ward gave a dip today. not much the defence can do when they get that sort of service. but yeah, teams shouldn't be allowed 26 marks inside the forward 50 in a match, absurd

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

i think we saw the real effects of 2 close losses.

Good point.

This will probably escape most of the posters here tonight.

[Jarka 767]

i think we saw the real effects of 2 close losses.

I disagree, this trait of giving up is something that the MFC has shown the whole time Daniher has been our coach. It's like they say to themselves that it doesn't matter if they let this one go, there will always be next week, and we know that certain Melbourne players will never get dropped as long as Daniher is coach.

[tooly 0]

I just hope MFC will think how far we are from a flag and do somthing

about it :angry: :angry: :angry: :angry: :angry: :angry: :angry:

[Demon Disciple 11,082]

bell was horrific. again. his use of the ball makes ward and brown look like superstars; he tries hard, but he's very, very trying.

miller just didn't give a whimper, did he? awful.

i dunno. the losses aren't bothering me anymore. i'm just expecting that they're going to continue to mount up.

Sounds like you've given up all hope. It doesn't hurt me anymore - and i am one of the more passionate fans you could find. what does that mean???

[pantaloons 2,019]

There are probably a lot of negative things I could post about Melbourne players right now, and I'm not criticizing people here for doing so, but today's match unfortunately highlighted the extreme gulf between West Coast and Melbourne right now. As poor as we were today, the Eagles were awesome. There is probably a smaller gap between Richmond and second place than there is between West Coast and second place at the moment. Their midfield is strong, wins the ball, their ruckwork is purposeful, and they hit targets. I thought Carroll had a shocker, but it couldn't have been easy having Judd and Kerr running the ball out of the middle at a million miles an hour with no pressure and slamming the ball onto Big Q's ample [censored] every ten minutes.

The pressure they put on the ball-carrier is immense. It was like watching an AFL team against a little league team. Almost every time Melbourne had the ball, it seemed there was no one to kick to in an advantageous position. We were absolutely strangled.

As for individual player analysis, where do you start? On the positives, I thought Johnstone was very good, and given that he had zero options to kick to all day, it was a miracle he only turned the ball over a couple of times. Petterd continues to rack up touches. Sylvia looked excellent until his injury. I'll be very disappointed if he misses much time.

We have serious forward line issues though. Miller is just the walking dead at the moment. I can't see his AFL career continuing for very long if his form doesn't improve. Neitz is struggling to get back into it, and Davey is spending more time up the ground. I know this isn't a new idea, but surely its time for Green to go back to the forward line. His field kicking is comical, and he has a much better understanding of how to play as a forward than as a midfielder.

[Gouga 512]

Good point.

This will probably escape most of the posters here tonight.

Pfft. We were terrible today because we had too close games?

Give me a break.

[45HG 1,539]

one thing i can never understand about melbourne, and the way people receive it, is the incredible speed at which it can all change.

when we play well, we have 'a dynamic forward line' one of the 'best in the league' with yze robbo davey netiz green rotating etc, yet suddenly when we start losing (looking more at 1-2 years ago) suddenly the scribes would say the dees forward line looks dead, and then list the exact same players as rationale for the failure.

it seems indicative of our team, and one of the most frustrating parts. it must be part of the club culture because we seem to have guys that are fine when it's going well, but stagnate and lose confidence easily when it's going against.

i dont want to sound negative but i find it hard to see what a trade would do to really spice up the demons week in week out, form or not

[Demon Disciple 11,082]

I disagree, this trait of giving up is something that the MFC has shown the whole time Daniher has been our coach. It's like they say to themselves that it doesn't matter if they let this one go, there will always be next week, and we know that certain Melbourne players will never get dropped as long as Daniher is coach.

Yep agree with that. And that there is always next year. Hell atleast Richmond tried. Richmond played for the guernsey this weekend, whilst we did not. It will be very interesting to see how we come out next week. Our pride is on the line (or what's left of it). Will the players even care and give a yelp? Come on boys fire up FFS.

[45HG 1,539]

we've tried damned hard the past two weeks. one game against the (world's - if you listen to grybas) best team and being completely outplayed by a fired up eagles team isn't enough for me to say there's no pride etc. but you're right, it's all about the response.

[Dappa Dan 2,188]

It's weird to me that bell's performances this year have usually been seen in far differing opinions. i thought he was terrible today....just terrible. he turned the ball over in the back half giving away goals, failed to stick tackles and lacked accountablity. he does get a hard match-up each week but imo he has a long, long, long way to go. just my opinion on his game today and i'm sure others will think differently.

Yeah. But terrible? Miller was terrible. Some of Jeff's wprk was terrible. Belly was going it alone on a tall player. You can't expect him to beat tall opponents as often as he plays on them. He's going to have down weeks. And shock horror, he had one against a rampant reigning premier with the best midfield against a non-existant one. EVERY week he gets the same thing. NO midfield pressure, his opponent getting delivery on a platter. And he works as hard as he does, with well over half his involvement near the footy to positive effect... He drills it upfield where NO-ONE is there to pass to, and no-one is leading... What more do you expect? Even golden boy Petterd, the great Wrecker, Carroll, even our so-called-star Bruce had shockers... And Bell is the one we pick out? your opinion is well considered. But under the circumstances, surely Belly has earned a break like his other friends in defence.

I like Belly too, and he was far from our worst, but it was probably his worst game for the year. Didn't do much rebounding, one terrible turnover, well beaten by Staker and although it was a bad matchup, Staker is not that great a player.

Worst game for the year? It'd be up there. But I think he played worse last week or the week before... I think he had less effect on the match in recent weeks, whereas today he made mistakes when he got it. It's probably about right though.

bell was horrific. again. his use of the ball makes ward and brown look like superstars; he tries hard, but he's very, very trying.

Again? Again.... So when was he horrific before today, THIS YEAR. Was there anyone else that was "horrific." Brucey, Yze, White, Brown? Naaah horrific is entirely appropriate...

He tries hard, he gets no help, and does his job in the first 7 rounds and we STIIIIIIIIIILL see this utter, utter garbage from the likes of MFC supporters who wouldn't know their football from their Auntie's knitting classes.

Fair dinkum Andrew, watch some football. The kid had a rotten day, along with everyone but Trav, JMac, Silvia and Godders. He was NOWHERE NEAR our worst and is bleeding for the club... For those of you with foxtel active did you see the blisters on his feet? Covered in them. His toes were entirely concealed with tape.

Makes Ward and Brown look good? THE GUY IS A GREAT KICK!!! OPEN YOUR EYES!!!! He didn't have any targets today... and when he did he hit them up perfectly. YES he made some mistakes, but you would when the ball's down your end as soon as you've disposed of it.

But nooooo, he's absolutely horrific.... again apparently....

Jesus, I don't know why I bother. This is a simple no-brainer people...All of you Bell haters living on the past take off the prejudiced goggles and open you eyelids!!!! The kid can play..... Give him a go.... He is NOT the one to blame. He wasn;t today, and he CERTAINLY hasn't been all year.

[Jaded No More 58,687]

Jesus, I don't know why I bother. This is a simple no-brainer people...All of you Bell haters living on the past take off the prejudiced goggles and open you eyelids!!!! The kid can play..... Give him a go.... He is NOT the one to blame. He wasn;t today, and he CERTAINLY hasn't been all year.

Go you, fighting the good fight for our boy, and in under 10,000 words no less

Is anyone going to mention his perfectly executed bump on a West Coast player to free Green? His great pin-point kick to Travis?

Yes, he missed a tackle on Judd... like he is the first player in the AFL to struggle to get a hold of that man!

He also got caught behind a massive opponent on a couple of occasions today, but Staker is 10cm taller than Belly. Talk about a stupid match-up!

He also made a rare stuff-up when kicking across the goals. It was stupid, but he does not deserve to be classified as a shocking kick and a no-brainer because of it. Watch him go, watch him tackle and go in hard at every contest, then remember that he has only played 36 games (most of them under an injury cloud) and go criticise someone else.

[tess 19]

I disagree, this trait of giving up is something that the MFC has shown the whole time Daniher has been our coach. It's like they say to themselves that it doesn't matter if they let this one go, there will always be next week, and we know that certain Melbourne players will never get dropped as long as Daniher is coach.

I ponder this to myself also. I have foxtel active and after today’s game I turned it on the Demons view.

Seeing Brad Miller having a great old laugh and a catch up with Beau Waters like nothing had ever happened.

This makes me think that when I lose an embarrassing game of basketball (which I play twice weekly) that I do not look happy and content at all. I’m sure Millar isn’t happy with the last 3 hrs of his life , but the reaction reflects what I see in Brad Miller and the MFC's current attitude. "Your to good West Coast...well done I admire your brilliance."

The club is like Geelong, content with mediocrity. Not setting the bar, always trying to follow the club that sets the bar and when we get trounced by I team we say- a better side beat us.

There always seems to be a better side, a harder side, a more committed side that beats us and has done so for a very long time.

[drdrake 3,047]

We should add coach, ND outcoached again, Pathetic

Miller, I though Subi would suit him space long great for a lead up CHF, he didn't run gave no option coming out of defense, why ND didn't put him on Hanson after the first quarter and Dunn to CHF?

Cam Bruce should never be used a tagger, he gets smashed every time.

Is ND trying to retire Neita, by playing him at CHF he will expire very quickly.

I fell sorry for PJ, he was made to ruck against Cox, Cox is the best ruckman in the AFL, PJ is getting better but Cox smashed him, White unfortunately is not even competitive in the centre against good ruckman.

ND waits for the game to be well and truely lost before he makes changes, I thought Yze was OK in the first half then he has sent to the back pocket and wathed the ball go over his head again and again. Bell is not 6'4 at on stage he was playing on Cox in defense, bring on PJ and play him down back when this happens, don't just allow miss matches, both PJ and White have good endurance they can stay on the ground, PJ doesn't need a rest after rucking for 5 min per quarter.

[Demon16 69]

And Bell is the one we pick out? your opinion is well considered. But under the circumstances, surely Belly has earned a break like his other friends in defence.

If you can take the belly blinkers off for one second you may notice i paid out on nathan carroll and brad miller. the only reason i held back on whelan was because it was his first game back, he looked like he was on another planet. the defense deserves no break......they are there to do a job no matter what the circumstances. if the midfield are letting them down because of a lack of pressure that is one thing, but the defense are failing virtually every time the ball goes forward for the opposition. imo we need to base a premiership side around a super-strong defense and of our current lot down back i would probably keep 2 of them.

[45HG 1,539]

a premiership defence is not solely the 6 men who start in the backline.

it is a combination of them, and a midefield that pressurize opposition midfields, and push back hard when the ball is lost in the middle. we don't do that. you need only look at last week v dogs, after sylvia goaled, to realise we don't have the collective defensive mindset needed to keep teams consistently to low scores. now the defence wasn't great yesterday, but when you've got that much space to lead into, and the midfield is running the ball with no pressure, what in the world are you supposed to do? if lynch makes leads every which was and has the ball pin-pointed to his chest, there isn't much a defender can do. (having said that, was nathan carroll wearing runners or what was going on there?)

i think to make a 'premiership defense' you definitely need a back 6 that can do a job, which i reckon ours can do. bell is a good running defender but can also keep his man, wheels is wheels, we all know what rivers can do, we all loved nath when he was shutting people down last year. but these were all hapening whilst our midfield was racking up the no #1 tackles in the comp, pressuring other midfields into below-perfect passing that gives our defenders a chance.

[QueenC 74]

I ponder this to myself also. I have foxtel active and after today’s game I turned it on the Demons view.

Seeing Brad Miller having a great old laugh and a catch up with Beau Waters like nothing had ever happened.

This makes me think that when I lose an embarrassing game of basketball (which I play twice weekly) that I do not look happy and content at all. I’m sure Millar isn’t happy with the last 3 hrs of his life , but the reaction reflects what I see in Brad Miller and the MFC's current attitude. "Your to good West Coast...well done I admire your brilliance."

The club is like Geelong, content with mediocrity. Not setting the bar, always trying to follow the club that sets the bar and when we get trounced by I team we say- a better side beat us.

There always seems to be a better side, a harder side, a more committed side that beats us and has done so for a very long time.

What would you have them do?

Chuck a hissy fit after the siren sounds, shake the goals posts in anger, and then stomp off the ground in a collective strop like unsportsmanlike children?

I have no problem witnessing my team behave with a sportsmanlike attitude in public, after a game is done. And frankly it doesn't make me doubt the hurt.

But we have no idea what goes on behind closed doors, or on the flight back home, or how they actually felt or what was said, but to say that because they had the audacity to congratulate an opposition who was, lets face it, massively better, makes them accepting of their lot and form right now is ridiculous.

This "acceptance of mediocrity" catch cry has become mantra around here. It does have some truth to it both in us and the club, but do you actually think anyone on that field wanted to accept what happened (the performance) out there yesterday simply because they chatted to their opposition?

But the reality is that they lost and that has to be accepted and better with a good grace than bad IMO.

But accepting the performance is a totally different argument.

And besides yesterdays performance went way below mediocrity.

[Demon16 69]

a premiership defence is not solely the 6 men who start in the backline.

it is a combination of them, and a midefield that pressurize opposition midfields, and push back hard when the ball is lost in the middle. we don't do that. you need only look at last week v dogs, after sylvia goaled, to realise we don't have the collective defensive mindset needed to keep teams consistently to low scores. now the defence wasn't great yesterday, but when you've got that much space to lead into, and the midfield is running the ball with no pressure, what in the world are you supposed to do? if lynch makes leads every which was and has the ball pin-pointed to his chest, there isn't much a defender can do. (having said that, was nathan carroll wearing runners or what was going on there?)

i think to make a 'premiership defense' you definitely need a back 6 that can do a job, which i reckon ours can do. bell is a good running defender but can also keep his man, wheels is wheels, we all know what rivers can do, we all loved nath when he was shutting people down last year. but these were all hapening whilst our midfield was racking up the no #1 tackles in the comp, pressuring other midfields into below-perfect passing that gives our defenders a chance.

i agree with most of that, and we all know how much of a difference the midfield pressure makes, but thats not my issue. my issue was not some of the marks lynch took on the lead, it was the "contested" marks he took, when carroll had the chance to do something. he was pathetic. when bell failed to stick a tackle on judd running into an open goal when he had a good grasp, when he turned the ball over kicking backwards to the goal square, failing to gt a fist on the ball time after time. it's not the space and the ease with which the opposition lead and mark.........that you can't stop......it's the things our defense can control. we make far too many excuses for our ordinary defense.

[deanox 8,733]

White - second rate ruckman(but paid as a first)

White unfortunately is not even competitive in the centre against good ruckman.

He bleeds for this club, and he looked very hurt and sat there for a good 5 minutes just reflecting.

He isn't a top ruckman anymore, but he has carried us for years and I'm sure it hurts him to realise that he'll most likely retire without a premiership. Every good career comes to an end at some stage. We can't expect him to keep going forever.

to anyone out there who has the audacity to bag out jeff white have a think about what made jeff white the premier ruckman in the afl a few years ago. it was his ability to jump over the top of all, alloqing him to get first hands to the footy and guide it down the throat of our awaiting midfield (one of whom won a brownlow, surely helped by the amount of clean ball he was getting). then stop and have a look at what has changed. the afl brought in the 'jeff white rule', which means all ruckman need to be within 5 metres of the bounce. what chance does jeff now have to compete against opposition rucks who are 5-15cm taller than him? the afl changed the rules, stripping him off his run and jump effectively ending his reign as the dominant ruckman. yes he has been out of form this year but to anyone who thinks he does less than try his best, and to anyone who thinks he is not a great ruckman because of lack of ability have a good hard think about this first...

[Dappa Dan 2,188]

If you can take the belly blinkers off for one second you may notice i paid out on nathan carroll and brad miller. the only reason i held back on whelan was because it was his first game back, he looked like he was on another planet. the defense deserves no break......they are there to do a job no matter what the circumstances. if the midfield are letting them down because of a lack of pressure that is one thing, but the defense are failing virtually every time the ball goes forward for the opposition. imo we need to base a premiership side around a super-strong defense and of our current lot down back i would probably keep 2 of them.

Mate, I have NEVER had blinkers on for any player. The closest thing is probably Neita. What I say about belly on this site is clear, specific, and entirely grounded in the facts, and I'll go toe to toe with anyone in a debate about Belly, fully confident in backing myself because the facts are there for ALL to see.

Now, if you look closely, you'll see I thought your post was probably about right. I didn't bring up any of your other points because I didn't see the need in repeating what you said. Seemed pretty stright to me.

And yes, the defence deserves no break... on the whole. Our back six, though probably not quite the starting back 6 we would prefer (Frawley, Rivers, Holland maybe), are terrible at the moment. What I'm saying is that Bell is one of few players in the side that can hold his head high. Carroll had 10 marks, and a heap of the footy but was still smashed... what does that tell you? That despite getting his hands to it, there was simply too much footy, served too nicely over too long a period fo time for ANY defence to do anything about it. Belly may not have been at his best, but terrible? That's where I find fault. He only had a couple kicked on him.

Fair enough though, I can see, with the obvious clangers he made how you'd think he had a bad one. But his year so far has been exemplary. Yet people STILL believe he's inconsistant and makes bad decisions. His decision making, particularly when under the pump, has been WELL above average so far this year. That's a fact. But people STILL base their opinions of him on his first dozen games. I've been trotting out the same facts again and again, that he's basically custom-built for the backline, and has a great kick to boot. And you say he's a long, long, long way off? I just can't understand that. And I don't think I would have brought this up if the rest of your post hadn't been so well considered and expressed. I can disregard nuff nuffs who are perennial Bell haters, but you seem to actually THINK... And that's what gets me.

And who are the 2 you'd keep? I assume Bell isn't one of them, and that is just plain nuts. He's a kid, he's got ALL the weapons in his arsenal, and he's playing footy that's good enough to build upon. YES I like the kid, but I have as good reason to do that as I have for anyone.

Give his decision making, and footy in general a go... and if I'm wrong, I'll buy you your drnks for the night at the next demonland function. But I'm confident you'll come round.

[Doggo 32]

then stop and have a look at what has changed. the afl brought in the 'jeff white rule', which means all ruckman need to be within 5 metres of the bounce. what chance does jeff now have to compete against opposition rucks who are 5-15cm taller than him? the afl changed the rules, stripping him off his run and jump effectively ending his reign as the dominant ruckman. yes he has been out of form this year but to anyone who thinks he does less than try his best, and to anyone who thinks he is not a great ruckman because of lack of ability have a good hard think about this first...

I dont think he's not trying. He's trying his absolute guts out, 110%, and getting beaten. I've seen him at his best, and i loved him when he was. But he is not there now.

You cant ignore or deny that he got absolutely smashed on the weekend by Cox/Seaby, and has been getting regularly beaten in the ruck for sometime. PJ wasnt great either, but still managed the same amount of hitouts as Jeff in half an hour less game time (6 HO's each, 17% effectiveness each. White played 90% gametime, PJ 60%). It was probably the first time Jeff hadnt got more than 10 hitouts in a game for a long, long time.

Jeff's just not getting near it in the taps.

I love his commitment to the club and his ability around the ground, but unfortunately we're gonna have to figure something out very soon in the ruck stocks, because Jeff's getting old and seems to have lost "it" in the ruck. Maybe PJ playing more game time in the ruck, White playing more in the forward line? PJ looks to be coming along nicely, much better than Jamar has. And elevating Neaves when possible and seeing how he might go at the highest level. Jamar wont be there next year.

I just hope Whitey can prove me wrong soon, because i really love him as a player. C'mon Whitey!!!!

[Guest baysidedave]

Johnstone - gave a damn

EDIT >For those who are interested , I have had time to calm down and have provided a more detailed analysis on post # 25 .

load of crap