POSTGAME: Rd 22 vs Carlton

[Guest]

Had that goal been awarded we’d all be starting to plan our post-Premiership parties.

We shouldn’t be made to feel like losers when we clearly aren’t.

I’m so over the usuals writing us off as a result of a game like that. Everyone’s entitled to their opinion blah blah [censored] blah and that’s fine. But these selfsame people are the first to say “never in doubt” when we win. 🙄 

[Macca 16,972]

35 minutes ago, titan_uranus said:

I understand what people mean by this (their pressure almost literally can’t be higher than that).

But they have Walsh, Cerra, McGovern, Kennedy, McKay and McGovern out, some/all of whom will be back by finals. 

They probably can get better.

Carlton can get better and if they are able to maintain their form and get players back, they are a dangerous opponent

Up until now, we haven't seen Carlton apply all over the ground defensive pressure.  Modern football requires that sort of footy and Voss now looks like he's instilled that into his team ... but from outside the top 4, it's a tough road ahead for them

As for us last night, we had too many down on their best and a number who were not noticed much at all

To win it all, we need to play a lot better than last night.  Even if we'd won the game, there are concerns.  Especially up forward

We really need Fritsch back for the finals and then go more medium-sized up forward and not be too reliant on tall options (which we haven't really got anyway)

[Jibroni 5,004]

58 minutes ago, spirit of norm smith said:

I’ve watched it about 40 times. I can’t see it as touched. Marchbank was not protesting.  He didn’t touch it.  Simply the goal umpire GOT IT WRONG. Umps don’t have a say in the match. What rubbish.  We should have won.   It might cost us 2nd or 4th. 

You can also argue Marchbank would have mark if Van Rooyen not grabbed his arm. Umpires make mistakes all the time but we need better officials and technology to support them.

We lost the game in the first 5 minutes of the last quarter which had nothing to do with umpiring.

Edited August 13, 2023 by Jibroni

[Rab D Nesbitt 8,367]

2 hours ago, binman said:

I'm at Princess Park.

Not a breath of wind.

Ground looks in perfect condition.

The boys have just run onto the ground. Tmac looks in good nick.

Tomo looks in great nick.

My anger has subsided over the umpiring last night (venting on dl helpful)

All is good with the world.

Go dees.

Does Princes Park now identify as female Binny? 

[BDA 22,755]

23 minutes ago, layzie said:

He should get suspended for pejury.

Put the bible in his hand and ask him under oath.

[Guest]

Just wanna unashamedly and publicly let everyone know what an incredible cheer squad our Club has. Credit where it’s due and all.

Last night’s loss topped off a particularly brutal time for the DA. Personally, I laid my youngest sister to rest on Friday, she took her own life three weeks ago. Yesterday on their way to the ‘G, two of our members, young brothers, were involved in a horrific car accident where a motorcyclist was trapped under their car. They had to administer CPR until ambos arrived and at this point it’s not looking likely the rider will pull through. Then last night just before 3/4 time, after wondering why one of our regulars hadn’t shown up, we received the devastating news that he’d passed away, likely cause being suicide.

We were facing an uphill battle to make more noise than Carlton fans as it was, their numbers are legion. But I’m so proud of our efforts last night. It’s a huge feat to chant and cheer while your heart is breaking.

PS: Kate came and sat with us for the last quarter. We have the best president as well as the best cheer squad. ❤️💙

[Rodney (Balls) Grinter 10,830]

I'm guessing others have probably had their rant on this as well and while we also had our opertuity to win the game more decisively, the reality was that two good sides cracked in hard, with intensity and it was always likely to come down to the wire.  While I'm happy to write this off being home and away and with us pretty much a lock for at least top 4, therefore the loss not costing us so dearly, if this was a big final, that goal review could have cost either side.

The AFL continuously rants on about tge intergrity of the game and I think this is a big one.  For a multi million dollar competition, I think it's really poor for the AFL to have such poor goal review technology if it's going to be used as a decider of scoring.  Way too many times, that the umpires go to review scores, the cameras simply arn't in the right spot.  It's about time the AFL invest in embedding multiple high speed, high definition camers in and around goals so that there is always a camera that has the right angle to make a clear decision.  It should also do investigations into infra red heat cameras and embedding the ball with telemetry to detect small impacts, which I would think should be totally feasible in this day and age of micro electronics.

While I'm at it, I also don't see why the video umpires can't also remedy clearly wrong or missed decisions like that one that should have been paid to JVR.

[leave it to deever 17,511]

42 minutes ago, Jaded No More said:

A moment of appreciation for Clarry who missed 10 weeks of footy and had 27 touches, 13 tackles and TEN clearances last night. 
 

To put in perspective, Cripps had 5 clearances, Hewett 8, Gus 6 and Viney 5. 
 

The man is a freak. 

Fantastic tackling effort.

[Macca 16,972]

24 minutes ago, BDA said:

Put the bible in his hand and ask him under oath.

Sure ... but the things that you're liable, to read in the bible, ain't necessarily so

[The heart beats true 18,128]

41 minutes ago, WalkingCivilWar said:

Had that goal been awarded…

Exactly. I still haven’t seen any footage that shows he touched the ball. 4 angles. None show a touch. How is that insufficient evidence? What, they needed a 5th camera angle to make a decision. 

[BDA 22,755]

11 minutes ago, Macca said:

Sure ... but the things that you're liable, to read in the bible, ain't necessarily so

For sure. Whoever wrote the book of revelations had consumed some magic mushrooms I reckon.

[markT 21]

53 minutes ago, Jibroni said:

You can also argue Marchbank would have mark if Van Rooyen not grabbed his arm. Umpires make mistakes all the time but we need better officials and technology to support them.

We lost the game in the first 5 minutes of the last quarter which had nothing to do with umpiring.

I have a fundamental problem with the AFL Score Review System in general, and the Umpires Call aspect in particular.   When a goal umpire states that I think it was touched or I think it was a goal, what he or she is actually saying is that they dont know.  In these cicumstances the assumption should always be that it is a goal unless the VR can conclusively prove that the ball was touched. In other words, the benefit of the doubt should always rest with the team that has made the play not the umpire who effectively doesnt know and has provided a best guess only.

IMO the discretion of the goal umpires in these circumstances needs to be taken away from them, in the same way we need to take away the discretion of the field umpire when they make insufficient attempt to keep the ball in play decisions.  

This would add a lot more certainty to the rules, and stop this plague ravaging our game of crucial umpiring decisions dictating  outcomes.

[layzie 33,813]

1 hour ago, The heart beats true said:

Exactly. I still haven’t seen any footage that shows he touched the ball. 4 angles. None show a touch. How is that insufficient evidence? What, they needed a 5th camera angle to make a decision. 

Absolutely, the problem is that none of them show them definitively not touch it it beyond doubt and thanks to this stupid system we're stuffed.

Edited August 13, 2023 by layzie

[Macca 16,972]

7 minutes ago, BDA said:

For sure. Whoever wrote the book of revelations had consumed some magic mushrooms I reckon.

Are we ever going to solve the touched near the goal line question? I still reckon SOS got a finger on that Michael Long kick ... he pleaded his case in a very convincing manner

Years ago I suggested that players might start flinging their fingers back to accentuate the blurred camera vision (which we still have - amateur hour)

And given that players try and milk free kicks at the drop of a hat, why not?  We are, after all, playing for the sheep station (or the equivalent)

[ElDiablo14 4,999]

1 hour ago, Gawndy the Great said:

Maybe it won’t change the result gone by, but it will add pressure to the AFL to make a serious investment in improving technology so outcomes like these are avoided in future games. It is simply archaic. 

You don't want a similar situation to happen in a PF or GF, if we keep quiet nothing will change.

[The heart beats true 18,128]

10 minutes ago, layzie said:

Absolutely, the problem is that none of them show them definitively not touchint it beyond doubt and thanks to this stupid system we're stuffed.

If this isn’t definitive then nothing is. He missed the ball by a foot. Why have the ARC if it doesn’t overturn a clear mistake? 

[binman 42,983]

3 hours ago, binman said:

I'm at Princess Park.

Not a breath of wind.

Ground looks in perfect condition.

The boys have just run onto the ground. Tmac looks in good nick.

Tomo looks in great nick.

My anger has subsided over the umpiring last night (venting on dl helpful)

All is good with the world.

Go dees.

Correction.

Tmac did not look in great nick.

Unless it is comparison to me.

Only two players coming into the seniors any time soon from that game.

Spargo, who was a cut above and worked his guts out.

And ditto tomo.

Spargo would have been involved in half our scoring chains i reckon

 

Edited August 13, 2023 by binman

[ElDiablo14 4,999]

42 minutes ago, WalkingCivilWar said:

Just wanna unashamedly and publicly let everyone know what an incredible cheer squad our Club has. Credit where it’s due and all.

Last night’s loss topped off a particularly brutal time for the DA. Personally, I laid my youngest sister to rest on Friday, she took her own life three weeks ago. Yesterday on their way to the ‘G, two of our members, young brothers, were involved in a horrific car accident where a motorcyclist was trapped under their car. They had to administer CPR until ambos arrived and at this point it’s not looking likely the rider will pull through. Then last night just before 3/4 time, after wondering why one of our regulars hadn’t shown up, we received the devastating news that he’d passed away, likely cause being suicide.

We were facing an uphill battle to make more noise than Carlton fans as it was, their numbers are legion. But I’m so proud of our efforts last night. It’s a huge feat to chant and cheer while your heart is breaking.

PS: Kate came and sat with us for the last quarter. We have the best president as well as the best cheer squad. ❤️💙

Sorry for your loss WCW.

I hope for the sake of the DA our boys win the flag at the G.

[ElDiablo14 4,999]

5 minutes ago, The heart beats true said:

If this isn’t definitive then nothing is. He missed the ball by a foot. Why have the ARC if it doesn’t overturn a clear mistake? 

I think the ARC made their decision based on potential contact with the right arm or the leg, not the left hand.

In any case that ball wasn't touched.

[hemingway 7,627]

49 minutes ago, WalkingCivilWar said:

Just wanna unashamedly and publicly let everyone know what an incredible cheer squad our Club has. Credit where it’s due and all.

Last night’s loss topped off a particularly brutal time for the DA. Personally, I laid my youngest sister to rest on Friday, she took her own life three weeks ago. Yesterday on their way to the ‘G, two of our members, young brothers, were involved in a horrific car accident where a motorcyclist was trapped under their car. They had to administer CPR until ambos arrived and at this point it’s not looking likely the rider will pull through. Then last night just before 3/4 time, after wondering why one of our regulars hadn’t shown up, we received the devastating news that he’d passed away, likely cause being suicide.

We were facing an uphill battle to make more noise than Carlton fans as it was, their numbers are legion. But I’m so proud of our efforts last night. It’s a huge feat to chant and cheer while your heart is breaking.

PS: Kate came and sat with us for the last quarter. We have the best president as well as the best cheer squad. ❤️💙

Heartfelt sympathy to you and the squad. Take care. 

[Demon Dynasty 17,109]

1 hour ago, WalkingCivilWar said:

Had that goal been awarded we’d all be starting to plan our post-Premiership parties.

We shouldn’t be made to feel like losers when we clearly aren’t.

I’m so over the usuals writing us off as a result of a game like that. Everyone’s entitled to their opinion blah blah [censored] blah and that’s fine. But these selfsame people are the first to say “never in doubt” when we win. 🙄 

Love the passion WCW!  You go girl!  Sorry to hear of your loss also ✌🏼🙏🏼

Edited August 13, 2023 by Demon Dynasty

[Demon Dynasty 17,109]

18 minutes ago, The heart beats true said:

If this isn’t definitive then nothing is. He missed the ball by a foot. Why have the ARC if it doesn’t overturn a clear mistake? 

On radio he also claimed he touched it with his fingers.  Well neither hand went near the ball so that's a load of bullocks as was the whole review. 

Didn't have the balls to over turn what was an obviously incorrect call from the goal line replays.  Why are they there?  Getting paid for not doing their job professionaly.

[Engorged Onion 10,215]

4 minutes ago, Demon Dynasty said:

On radio he also claimed he touched it with his fingers.  Well neither hand went near the ball so that's a load of bullocks as was the whole review. 

Didn't have the balls to over turn what was an obviously incorrect call from the goal line replays.  Why are they there?  Getting paid for not doing their job professionaly.

It’s like it’s going ‘to script’ @Clintosaurus no?

[Wodjathefirst 2,632]

Fairly safe to say that all supporters from all clubs see umpiring decisions from their understandable biased perspective.

From a whole of competition perspective I thought at the start of the year the introduction of the 4th umpire was going to be a good thing. Pick up blatant missed free kicks deep in forward lines as well as reduce blindsided decisions. All sounded good in theory.

I was wrong. Very few ‘extra’ fees being picked up and the cost being the extra umpires required having an obvious negative impact on the overall talent pool of our umpire stocks. This translates to inconsistent interpretations and decisions being made.

I would like to see the AFL return to having three umpires. Chances of this happening? Practically zilch. They are too proud to admit they may have got this wrong. Shame.

My only hope of a positive move forward is that technology used for the decision review process is upgraded to 21st century standards by the start of 2024. Surely that is not too much to ask for and expect. What we have now is not only a joke, it is an absolute embarrassment. 

 

[BDA 22,755]

31 minutes ago, Macca said:

he pleaded his case in a very convincing manner

I wouldn't rely on the word of a defending player. not at all.

the burden of proof should be on proving it was touched.

if the goal umpire isn't sure then refer it to the reviewer as unsure. no need for a soft call.

if the reviewer can't discern from the footage conclusively that it was touched then give the goal

it's not perfect. it is possible that a player gets a feather touch that doesn't create a deviation in the flight of the ball. But i'd rather that than rubbing out goals where a goal umpire makes a guess like last night.