Aliir Aliir & Lachie Jones in Concussion Protocol

[layzie 32,756]

28 minutes ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

Some might say it was more than disgraceful. Some might say it was negligent, plain and simple. Some might, I wouldn't 😉

I was annoyed watching On The Couch last night where they discussed a potential $50k fine with half suspended. That already happened, with Hartlett back in 2016. They were fined $20k with half suspended.

Ok you might say that was 7 years ago but it was the same doctor (I presume as he has been at the club 25 years), same coach, same club - so they should be given the full whack on top of the 10k which was suspended back then.

I don't think financial sanctions are sufficient - of course they won't penalise them points but must be something beyond financial sanction. They have traded their 1st rounder to North this year so draft sanctions may not work either. Not sure what else could be on the table.

They should penalise them percentage. 

[ElDiablo14 4,905]

10 minutes ago, layzie said:

They should penalise them percentage. 

2 premiership points

[kev martin 9,469]

They put the Doctor up as a scapegoat, that let's others off the hook.

The doctor made a mistake, LOL. I suggest they all have duty of care. 

We could all see the hit and effect of the collision to their brains.

Anyone who is in a position to do something to mitigate the effect, and didn’t act, should be held negligent. I would like to hear what discussions went on between all staff, players on the bench/box or those close to the impact area. It is unreasonable to think the assessment/discussions from many areas didn’t happen. The no action required, is unbelievable and to put it solely on the doctor is letting others off the hook. (Oh, c'mon Doc, they're out cold.)

I also understand the third umpire, review system have some responsibility. I heard someone in the media say that they have some jurisdiction about concussion assessment, if the club doesn't act.

Edited August 1, 2023 by kev martin

[Greendale 348]

Port wouldn't have done it if they had been properly punished after the Butters/Jonas head clash. The fact neither of them performed a concussion test was a farce, and the AFL swept it under the rug rather than receiving some bad press.

[John Crow Batty 8,764]

7 minutes ago, Greendale said:

Port wouldn't have done it if they had been properly punished after the Butters/Jonas head clash. The fact neither of them performed a concussion test was a farce, and the AFL swept it under the rug rather than receiving some bad press.

Add Rozee when cleaned up by Hunter as posted previously. As I have said before Port were the biggest abusers of the injury sub rule when it was in place. They have nothing but contempt for health and well being rules and were allowed to get away with their mockery of the concussion protocols for far too long. The AFL have really messed up by not pulling Port into line earlier.

Edited August 1, 2023 by John Crow Batty

[Deebauched 1,220]

Caroline Wilson and Cornes covering for the Port doctor who must be a person of integrity....right?

Considering Ports track record i wouldnt believe anything their doctor says. Bunch of weirdos in SA.

That place gives me the creeps. There are hundreds of teddy bears and toys strapped to a fence for miles around Truro. Like a scene out of a Hitchcock movie.

[Straight Sets Simon 23,113]

Poor bloke.

https://www.hawthornfc.com.au/news/1392757/max-lynch-retires
 

[Adam The God 29,304]

I'm sure this has been mentioned, but this decision making is almost certainly driven by the pressure on Hinkley and his FD.

It shows you how desperate and worried they are about falling over this year.

You can see it coming...

[Jaded No More 67,612]

6 minutes ago, A F said:

I'm sure this has been mentioned, but this decision making is almost certainly driven by the pressure on Hinkley and his FD.

It shows you how desperate and worried they are about falling over this year.

You can see it coming...

I hope he can sleep at night, knowing that one of his star players could have copped another head knock on Saturday night and ended up with permanent brain damage, and he still couldn't win the Showdown. 

What happens if Aliir collapses on the ground or ends up with a brain bleed? How does the AFL come back from that? 

Port are taking the absolute p#$$ with this behaviour. It is a disgrace. 

[Nascent 8,610]

AFL need to have their own doctors to perform these assessments.

Port, with form, should be facing loss of points. They've prioritised wins over their players welfare. Disgusting.

[La Dee-vina Comedia 16,644]

The actions of Port will, I suspect, lead to independent doctors being appointed to be present at every ground solely to monitor for concussions and to have power to remove players from the game. 

I also suspect the penalty will be something like a $150,000 fine plus the loss of 8 premiership points, with the points penalty being fully suspended. That will serve as a warning, not just for Port, but for every club. And rightly so.  

 

[old dee 23,482]

On 7/31/2023 at 5:50 PM, Dee Zephyr said:

You can’t make this stuff up. What was their doctor thinking?

Not a lot I would suggest!

[old dee 23,482]

It beggars belief, in 2023 how can any doctors act like this?

[BDA 22,238]

20 minutes ago, old dee said:

It beggars belief, in 2023 how can any doctors act like this?

Arrogance. Your average doctor has a healthy ego.

[John Crow Batty 8,764]

13 minutes ago, old dee said:

It beggars belief, in 2023 how can any doctors act like this?

Not all doctors belong on a pedestal. They are human like the rest of us and the profession has its fair share of dodgy types. I worked in the medical and health care industry for 3 decades and know doctors spanning all ranges from criminals, junkies, [censored], incompetents, nut cases to well balanced and even saints. Any profession that always craps on about its integrity means there’s always something to hide. 

[chookrat 4,201]

There is probably a case that failing to run Aliir Aliir through the concussion protocols, could in isolation be seen as a mistake, but combined with Lachie Jones being subbed out with a 'migraine', only for both players to show concussion symptoms on the Monday cannot possibly be a mistake but a deliberate act to circumvent the AFL's concussion protocols. This is a very serious matter.

The questions that come to mind are:

1. How will Port Adelaide explain this to the AFL.

2. What sanctions will the AFL impose on Port Adelaide. I don't think fines will cut it and I don't believe draft sanctions are appropriate given their impact os delayed. Docking premiership points makes sense given their immediate impact and that they directly address the short term incentive to play concussed players, noting I'm not sure the penalty if a club does this during finals.

3. Will the medical regulator review the Doctors medical registration. I'm not sure the should be trusted to advise people on medical matters.

4. Is this something WorkSafe could get involved in or is this too low level, without sufficient legislative cover, for them to get involved in.

Edited August 1, 2023 by chookrat

[old dee 23,482]

2 minutes ago, John Crow Batty said:

Not all doctors belong on a pedestal. They are human like the rest of us and the profession has its fair share of dodgy types. I worked in the medical and health care industry for 3 decades and know doctors spanning all ranges from criminals, junkies, [censored], incompetents, nut cases to well balanced and even saints. Any profession that always craps on about its integrity means there’s always something to hide. 

Correct JCB but this one is in a AFL club where the rules have been given a very large amount of publicity.

[Jaded No More 67,612]

What I don’t understand is why the AFL doesn’t have a hard set of rules for clubs found to be in breach of concussion protocols? Why are we once again making things up on the fly? Surely the AFL should have put in place rules around concussion protocols breaches.

Had Port known in advance that messing around with concussion will likely lead to them losing premiership points, or draft picks, or a significant amount of money from their soft cap, would they have risked it? Probably not. 

The AFL as always is reactive after the fact. Never ever should this have been allowed to occur. 
Now it’s a media circus and nobody has any idea how it all ends. 
 

And in all of this we’ve lost sight of the poor players, especially Aliir, who was made to go back and play with a concussion. I can only imagine the distress his family felt watching him return to the field. 

[Fritta and Turner 4,181]

9 minutes ago, John Crow Batty said:

Not all doctors belong on a pedestal.

Dr Edelsten I presume

[old dee 23,482]

4 minutes ago, chookrat said:

There is probably a case that failing to run Aliir Aliir through the concussion protocols, could in isolation be seen as a mistake, but combined with Lachie Jones being subbed out with a 'migraine', only for both players to show concussion symptoms on the Monday cannot possibly be a mistake but a deliberate act to circumvent the AFL's concussion protocols. This is a very serious matter.

The questions that come to mind are:

1. How will Port Adelaide explain this to the AFL.

2. What sanctions will the AFL impose on Port Adelaide. I don't think fines will cut it and I don't believe draft sanctions are appropriate given their impact os delayed. Docking premiership points makes sense given their immediate impact and that they directly address the short term incentive to play concussed players, noting I'm not sure the penalty if a club does this during finals.

3. Will the medical regulator review the Doctors medical registration. I'm not sure the should be trusted to advise people on medical matters.

4. Is this something WorkSafe could get involved in or is this too low level, without sufficient legislative cover, for them to get involved in.

Anything less  than the loss of premiership points will mean very little to a club like Port. The AFL are facing serious problems with problems from the past to do anything less the loss of points will be bought up in court to show they are still not serious about the problem. Essendrug were forbidden to play in a final series , could this happen to port? You cannot take the points from this game from them as they did not get any.   

[John Crow Batty 8,764]

25 minutes ago, Jontee said:

Dr Edelsten I presume

I worked with a highly respected neurologist for several decades who was regarded by many in the medical profession  including myself to be a genius. His management of brain injury and epilepsy was second to none. He saved and improved many lives. He turned out to be a pedophile. 

Edited August 1, 2023 by John Crow Batty

[John Crow Batty 8,764]

15 minutes ago, old dee said:

Correct JCB but this one is in a AFL club where the rules have been given a very large amount of publicity.

Issue is Port have been getting away with flaunting the injury rules for years. The AFL needs to cop most of the blame for letting them get away with it for too long. 

Edited August 1, 2023 by John Crow Batty

[Dr. Gonzo 23,683]

I want the AFL to demand an explanation as to how Jones passed the SCAT5 test but was subbed out with a migraine. That to me is a clear indication of their attempt to circumvent the protocols.

[chookrat 4,201]

1 minute ago, old dee said:

Anything less  than the loss of premiership points will mean very little to a club like Port. The AFL are facing serious problems with problems from the past to do anything less the loss of points will be bought up in court to show they are still not serious about the problem. Essendrug were forbidden to play in a final series , could this happen to port? You cannot take the points from this game from them as they did not get any.   

I agree Old Dee re docking premiership points, both as a Melbourne supporter who stands a good chance to finish top two and a fair minded person who wants to see concussion protocols as something that should never be circumvented to win a match or have players available the following match in pursuit of on field success.

I reckon a 2 match penalty when a club deliberately circumvents concussion protocols graded to a $50k fine where they accidentally miss something they should have picked up, e.g. 8 premiership points, which reverses an advantage a club would obtain for the duration of the two week protocol. I'm not sure what the penalty should be for this during the finals, treating the match as a loss/forfeit and points for the following season is probably the most straightforward penalty for a deliberate act.

I think Port being ruled out of finals all together is probably a bit unnecessary to avoid this happening in the future. No club will try this on of they stand to lose 8 premiership points or forfeit a final and lose points for the following season.

Also re the calls to have independent doctors assessing concussion, I think this has potential to create it's own problems and as long as the penalty is suitable I think club doctors can manage all injuries including concussion tests. Someone here mentioned that our club have always used the medical sub to the letter of the law (unlike some other clubs) and I think with appropriate sanctions all clubs will take concussion protocols seriously and not as a source of comparative advantage.

[BDA 22,238]

50 minutes ago, John Crow Batty said:

Any profession that always craps on about its integrity means there’s always something to hide.

So true. as soon as a client starts telling me how honest they are i get suspicious.