Have we officially found our full forward?

[WERRIDEE 5,479]

3 hours ago, Clint Bizkit said:

It’s his to lose now (given Brown’s body troubles), great performance.

Tomlinson needs to stay in the backline (Lever and May need a third defender) and Smith needs to play the third tall forward role full-time. Too often Richmond intercepted our forward entries because we were well outnumbered. 

I think Tomlinson's not up to it. Too slow. I'd prefer Smith at CHB with Hibbo as the sub. Melksham is the 3rd tall forward we don't need Smith forward.

Best team we can get on the park.

B: Bowey, May, Lever

HB: Salem, J.Smith, Rivers

C: Hunter, Oliver, Langdon

HF: Petracca, van Rooyen, Neal-Bullen

F: Fritsch, Petty, Pickett

FOLL: Gawn, Brayshaw, Viney

IC: Hibberd, Sparrow, Harmes, Melksham

SUB: Chandler

EMERG: McVee, Jordon, Woewodin

Casey

B: McVee, Tomlinson, Adams

HB: Howes, D.Turner, D.Smith

C: Woewodin, Dunstan, Laurie

HF: Spargo, McDonald, Moniz-Wakefield

F: Schache, B.Brown, Jefferson

FOLL: Grundy, Jordon, Munro

IC: White, Verrall, Sestan, K.Turner, K.Brown

A bit harsh on McVee but I think Hibbo is a better player.   

[Guest]

3 hours ago, old dee said:

The jury is still out on whether Fritsch will be back this year dd.

He’ll be back, OD. He’ll be back to play in Sydney, round 24. 

[Adam The God 30,261]

The biggest problem I think we'll have going forward is that we'll need Harry in the back half too. Tomlinson showed today that he really shouldn't be the A guy, he's a B guy, which is to say Petty is an A guy.

I don't trust Smith to play a full game as a KPB, although he might be alright, I just can't see it being a reliable option in September, which you cannot afford in your back half. You need reliability and predictability, and Joel is super aggressive positionally, and not a great judge of when to zone off. I'd prefer Joel as a cameo man, but who the hell knows what the FD think now.

[Adam The God 30,261]

6 hours ago, Jibroni said:

He reminded me of Neita today, clean grabs and kicking was elite. And JVR is developing nicely, imagine if he took that speccie.

Tomlinson had his struggles today but I would give him another chance next week.

It felt like Petty helped JVR to lift today too. I might be imaging that, but JVR seemed a different player today too.

[Adam The God 30,261]

6 hours ago, mo64 said:

Our forward structure has been addressed over the past 3 weeks (105, 97, 130). Petty has replaced BBB, and certainly looked like a huge upgrade. Fritta for Woey, and our forwardline should be locked in. 

No Grundy or Spargo for the rest of the year.

It's less of a forward structure thing and more of a ball movement thing.

And on the Fritta for Woey call, I think you could look at alternating Fritta and Melksham from high half forward to deep forward.

5 hours ago, rpfc said:

Definitely in 2023… 

I hope longer term because they are so hard to procure and very costly to acquire.

My one question would be on the craft that was shown but we were dumping it in there and he worked with what we gave him and that’s all you can ask for. 

The other thing to think about is in a forward line with Fritsch and Petracca - maybe a longer, ‘dumpier’ option is preferred… 

It was great to see.

His second goal in the first (?) was pure forward craft. Watch the replay. He was on the move dummy leading and then made a good lead up at the ball to mark amongst 2 or 3 others. His craft is no Charlie Curnow yet, but it's early days with Petty the forward.

[leave it to deever 17,511]

I think I'm on record here for questioning why Goody trialled Petty up fwd to only abandon the experiment just when he was injured. He was finally showing some really good signs in that game after some fairly lacklustre games. I thought that was sadly the end of it. Petty is a very talented player that Goody clearly wanted to keep as a defender. Yet after running out of options and the wonderful persistence of Tommo, Goody to his credit tried another time. If his five goals , 10 clean marks didn't impress you than his sixth goal around his body must have. You can't play like that and not be able to repeat it. We have found our forward for sure. Combine this with Melksham rediscovering his old skill and passion ( loved how he confidently grabbed the free from the boundary line) Jvr getting better each game, Kozzie and Chandler returning to form and Fritta waiting in the wings and we have a fwd line that can kick 100 points plus.

Also with Oliver coming back in, Trac may be able to contribute more in terms of goal scoring.  

Yesterday was a forward line that kicked 85% of our goals.

We simply don't need Grundy there. Or Max.

Which is good because Max was the reason in the last quarter we did so well. After a horrid first half, the bloke was a different person. His contested possessions made us look like we had another midfielder out there. He drove the ball forward from punching, kicking, handballing and pushing. His sheer will and strength saw him contribute to many of the last ten goals scored by us. I know this thread is about or forward line but that was one of the best performances I've ever seen from a ruckman. This is not a dig on Grundy in anyway but when you have someone who can play like Max did, then you want him playing as much as possible. 

And back on track, Jvrs leap is getting higher every game. He's also very athletic for his size and I think makes the perfect chf. 

Finally, the accuracy of all our forwards is excellent.

[Bombay Airconditioning 6,396]

On a side note 

Petty contracted until 2025 (will be 25)

JVR contracted until 2025 (will be 22)

BBB & TMac 2024 and if Grundy goes that’s a lot of cap space freed up to look for another key defender.

 

[mo64 5,874]

6 hours ago, A F said:

It's less of a forward structure thing and more of a ball movement thing.

And on the Fritta for Woey call, I think you could look at alternating Fritta and Melksham from high half forward to deep forward.

His second goal in the first (?) was pure forward craft. Watch the replay. He was on the move dummy leading and then made a good lead up at the ball to mark amongst 2 or 3 others. His craft is no Charlie Curnow yet, but it's early days with Petty the forward.

Our ball movement is made more fluent because we don't have a resting ruckman with no forward craft plonked deep in our forward line. 

[Lil_red_fire_engine 11,177]

The thing I loved most yesterday which maybe was more noticeable due to my sitting behind the goals with the Demon Army. How great it was to see two key forwards working in continual motion offering multiple leads not just pointing for it to be put on their heads. 

[Wells 11 5,406]

As a burnt and long time supporter I’m feeling a wave of caution here. I remember ( too clearly lol) When Glenn Swan debuted in 1973 at FF. We had a great reserves team and he was knocking the door down in 72. In his 5th game in the seniors he kicked 8 goals and I’m pretty sure Jim Tilbrook kicked 6 that day as well. Forward problems were over for a decade…we all thought. Swan did pretty much nothing for the rest of the year and quit at the end of the season. 

It was a great performance yesterday but let’s wait a few weeks to pop too many champagne corks. 

[layzie 33,814]

26 minutes ago, Lil_red_fire_engine said:

The thing I loved most yesterday which maybe was more noticeable due to my sitting behind the goals with the Demon Army. How great it was to see two key forwards working in continual motion offering multiple leads not just pointing for it to be put on their heads. 

Exactly. Plenty of movement and making defenders accountable. 

[leave it to deever 17,511]

1 hour ago, Wells 11 said:

As a burnt and long time supporter I’m feeling a wave of caution here. I remember ( too clearly lol) When Glenn Swan debuted in 1973 at FF. We had a great reserves team and he was knocking the door down in 72. In his 5th game in the seniors he kicked 8 goals and I’m pretty sure Jim Tilbrook kicked 6 that day as well. Forward problems were over for a decade…we all thought. Swan did pretty much nothing for the rest of the year and quit at the end of the season. 

It was a great performance yesterday but let’s wait a few weeks to pop too many champagne corks. 

I don't know anything about Swan but I must ask if prior to his debut, if he was a proven Afl player like Petty has been albeit in a different role. I could understand if Petty had come from the Magoo's to make his mark but he's been a great player for us for the last three years. Just saying . I know it's early but I can't imagine someone like Petty falling in a heap. He probably won't go on and kick big scores but it was his ten marks that impressed me. Something that we desperately needed up forward. He also proved a great foil so as to allow the others to kick plenty of goals 

[Jaded No More 68,922]

Petty’s biggest strength has always been his ability to read the play. It’s why he’s such a good defender. 

So it was never that far reaching that he could be a good forward. The way he positioned himself in spots that were hard to defend just showed you how easy that transition would be for him on a full time basis. 

Of course it helps that he can also take a good contested grab. I just didn’t know he could kick for goal so well. I assume that might ebb and flow, but his ability to lead to dangerous spots, mark the ball and position himself is not going to change.
 

He played on two very good defenders in Grimes and Balta. Balta is second in the league for intercept possessions, and he only had 5 yesterday because it became obvious he had to defend Petty, not just peel off him. I thought it was a match losing move by Richmond to move him forward in the last to be honest. 

[layzie 33,814]

2 minutes ago, Jaded No More said:

Petty’s biggest strength has always been his ability to read the play. It’s why he’s such a good defender. 

So it was never that far reaching that he could be a good forward. The way he positioned himself in spots that were hard to defend just showed you how easy that transition would be for him on a full time basis. 

Of course it helps that he can also take a good contested grab. I just didn’t know he could kick for goal so well. I assume that might ebb and flow, but his ability to lead to dangerous spots, mark the ball and position himself is not going to change.
 

He played on two very good defenders in Grimes and Balta. Balta is second in the league for intercept possessions, and he only had 5 yesterday because it became obvious he had to defend Petty, not just peel off him. I thought it was a match losing move by Richmond to move him forward in the last to be honest. 

Absolutely spot on.

His ability to read the ball in flight and position himself is better than any forward on our list and close to best on our list in general. On top of that his strength is underrated and he doesn't get bodied off it or out of position as much as some others we've tried there. 

His kicking for goal like JVR is of someone who doesn't overcomplicate things and kicks through the ball naturally. The hope is that they don't start introducing little aspects to their routine that can stuff it all up. I get vibes of T-mac half way through 2017 when he went forward.

We all know Grimes' MO but with Petty marking everything that came his way you have no choice but to defend 1v1. A great game against quality opposition and as much as I dearly wanted to give Gawn 6 votes I gave Petty the nod for this reason, 10 marks with 7 inside 50 and 4 contested, it's very darn impressive. 

[Supreme_Demon 3,863]

I appreciate the history lesson that was mentioned regarding Glenn Swan back in 1972. It's important to be cautious and not get too ahead of ourselves.

Time will tell if Harry Petty is a success at full foward.

I do remain hopeful like the rest of us! Fingers crossed! 🤞

I think there are two more recent examples we can look at regarding Melbourne defenders becoming forwards.

The first being our games record holder and leading goal kicker David Neitz. One of my all-time favourites players is big "Neita"! Who was named both an All Australian Centre Half Back (in 1995) and an All Australian Full Forward (in 2002). The change from the backline to the forwardline in 1996 was definitely seen as a success (kicking 56 goals). I would definitely be inviting David Neitz back to the club to impart some forward wisdom to both Harry Petty and Jacob van Rooyen.

The second, more recent example, is Tom McDonald who would definitely be a tremendous help and is still a slight chance to break back into the Demons side once he recuperates from his injury. Tom McDonald was a "pretty good" key defender who transformed himself into a "pretty good" key forward.

Anyway, what I am trying to say is Harry Petty has two excellent examples he can emulate and that the "transformation" from key defender to key forward can work.

All I ask is that Harry Petty continues to work on his "forward craft" and do lots of extra goal kicking lessons with Mark "Choco" Williams from now on.

[Adam The God 30,261]

1 hour ago, mo64 said:

Our ball movement is made more fluent because we don't have a resting ruckman with no forward craft plonked deep in our forward line. 

Potentially.

[Adam The God 30,261]

28 minutes ago, Jaded No More said:

Petty’s biggest strength has always been his ability to read the play. It’s why he’s such a good defender. 

And his marking overhead. He's got great hands. Of May, Lever and Petty, Petty is also the most reliable kick. He's very solid, with good technique over 15-20m, so if he can keep taking marks across half forward, as well as deep, his ability to hit kicks inside will be invaluable.

[whatwhat say what 22,771]

the difference between petty and swann or cuthbertson or what have you is that he's a proven afl-level player, not coming in and setting things alight forward out of nowhere

his marking both from on the lead and playing 'behind' his defender and reading the flight of the ball better was superb

[ElDiablo14 4,999]

10 hours ago, WalkingCivilWar said:

He’ll be back, OD. He’ll be back to play in Sydney, round 24. 

Is he participating in training these days?

[Diamond_Jim 12,590]

2 hours ago, Bombay Airconditioning said:

On a side note 

Petty contracted until 2025 (will be 25)

JVR contracted until 2025 (will be 22)

BBB & TMac 2024 and if Grundy goes that’s a lot of cap space freed up to look for another key defender.

 

True but (is there not always a but) we might need to find a new May as well for 2025. At the same time Bulldogs desperately need new key backmen. It could be a hard search

[ElDiablo14 4,999]

9 minutes ago, Diamond_Jim said:

True but (is there not always a but) we might need to find a new May as well for 2025. At the same time Bulldogs desperately need new key backmen. It could be a hard search

What about Disco Turner? He may be the answer, hopefully no more injuries.

[Bendigo_Demon 391]

Have we categorically found our full forward, end of story? No

what we have found is someone who has all the attributes we need who we can work with to make better.

marks well, kicks well, mobile, chases and tackles well, good leading patterns, rarely out marked, brings ball to ground. He has it all, but is still a work in progress. 
He is still a baby, less than 100 games, so between him and Van Rooyen, Jefferson, Fritsch, Pickett, Spargo and Chandler, our forward line looking strong.

[Diamond_Jim 12,590]

2 minutes ago, ElDiablo14 said:

What about Disco Turner? He may be the answer, hopefully no more injuries.

Not sure he's big and strong enough. I thought he was more a Lever type player. Injuries to him and D Smith make it hard to get a consistent feel for their form at VFL level

[Dee*ceiving 1,674]

15 hours ago, Vitamin Dee said:

Petty reads the ball flight so well. 

Interested to see who goes out for Fritch when fit. can’t be a small, and Melksham is playing some influential footy. 

It will be Taj I think with a bit of a shuffle around of the other forwards. Risk is it may take Melksham out of his most effective role, at least some of the time. 

[Dee*ceiving 1,674]

2 hours ago, leave it to deever said:

I think I'm on record here for questioning why Goody trialled Petty up fwd to only abandon the experiment just when he was injured. He was finally showing some really good signs in that game after some fairly lacklustre games. I thought that was sadly the end of it. Petty is a very talented player that Goody clearly wanted to keep as a defender. Yet after running out of options and the wonderful persistence of Tommo, Goody to his credit tried another time. If his five goals , 10 clean marks didn't impress you than his sixth goal around his body must have. You can't play like that and not be able to repeat it. We have found our forward for sure. Combine this with Melksham rediscovering his old skill and passion ( loved how he confidently grabbed the free from the boundary line) Jvr getting better each game, Kozzie and Chandler returning to form and Fritta waiting in the wings and we have a fwd line that can kick 100 points plus.

Also with Oliver coming back in, Trac may be able to contribute more in terms of goal scoring.  

Yesterday was a forward line that kicked 85% of our goals.

We simply don't need Grundy there. Or Max.

Which is good because Max was the reason in the last quarter we did so well. After a horrid first half, the bloke was a different person. His contested possessions made us look like we had another midfielder out there. He drove the ball forward from punching, kicking, handballing and pushing. His sheer will and strength saw him contribute to many of the last ten goals scored by us. I know this thread is about or forward line but that was one of the best performances I've ever seen from a ruckman. This is not a dig on Grundy in anyway but when you have someone who can play like Max did, then you want him playing as much as possible. 

And back on track, Jvrs leap is getting higher every game. He's also very athletic for his size and I think makes the perfect chf. 

Finally, the accuracy of all our forwards is excellent.

I think Goody moved Petty back to defense through the period of the season when he knew we weren't running at our best and would be trying to grind out low scoring wins in wet weather.

With the boys coming out of the loading phase and the skies clearing he's more comfortable with a higher scoring game and hence more talent forward of the ball. Makes sense as to why it was agains the Saints, under the roof at Marvel that we started to see Petracca forward more