We waste a helluva lot of ball.

If we get better with our skills and be more one touch we would win alot more games.

Are we the fumbliest team in the comp or what?

Edited June 24, 20231 yr by DeeZee

What frustrated me a lot was the amount of times they were allowed to bust through/fend off tackles and it was just a ball up 

On 6/22/2023 at 10:40 PM, layzie said:

The best part is that we waited 9 days for this game and get to wait another 10 to see us back in action 🤪

It took me 3 days to be able to open DL back up. I was livid on Thursday night turning the game off after Rohans goal in the 4th.

On 6/24/2023 at 11:23 AM, Roost it far said:

Like Collingwood who we controlled completely with our defensive effort. Sorry but your analysis is just plain wrong.

Its 100% correct. We trained that way and we played that way in the pre-season. Coll and PA play that way. Thats what I said 

You can stop your projections, I never said it couldn't be beaten.

On 6/24/2023 at 10:00 AM, jnrmac said:

Collingwood have done it

When?

1 minute ago, binman said:

When?

Since rd 10 last year. They have been 'up'

6 minutes ago, jnrmac said:

Since rd 10 last year. They have been 'up'

You mean except in September when they lost?

If you’re bagging Collingwood for losing 2 finals by under a kick, or ignoring Geelong playing with more quick tempo to win a flag, or ignoring Port this year then you’re just acting in bad faith.

We simply have to move the ball faster, with more width, more creativity and a lot more off the ball running or we aren’t going anywhere.

Apart from not beating the best sides we’re also deskilling our players.

This isn’t the late Daniher or Neeld days, we have defenders who can kick and we have a mature midfield and half forwards who should be capable of hard running. Switch, kick to space, over lap run to receive, get the ball back through the corridor. There’s so much we can do to improve our ball movement that doesn’t require gun key forwards or pinpoint kicking inside 50.

20 minutes ago, Jaded No More said:

You mean except in September when they lost?

Wow. Did I say they haven't lost a game? Can you not read?

1 minute ago, jnrmac said:

Wow. Did I say they haven't lost a game? Can you not read?

They weren’t “up” when it mattered most. You said they have been up since round 10 last year. 

3 minutes ago, Jaded No More said:

They weren’t “up” when it mattered most. You said they have been up since round 10 last year. 

I just hope they won't be "up" when it counts again. I'd like a choker narrative to develop.

.

Edited June 25, 20231 yr by binman
Why am i arguing about the pies?

1 hour ago, jnrmac said:

Since rd 10 last year. They have been 'up'

There is no doubt they are an incrediblely fit team. 

On 6/24/2023 at 7:51 AM, titan_uranus said:

Ah @binman. I applaud your resolve, running so openly and strongly with this after mast year.

I will maintain my view from last year, which is that I’d prefer to see concrete evidence from the club that shows we have actually engaged in loading through this period of 2023, before accepting this is the dominant reason for our performances as you argue. Last year there wasn’t such evidence IIRC, and we waited to see us bounce back with running fitness as the weeks went by, and it never happened. Granted, that may have been due to injuries, but it meant there was no real evidence that the loading block had occurred. 

If you can prove me wrong with interviews, or confirmed reports/vision from training, which show us increasing our training load over the last few weeks, I’m all ears. 

You're very much determined, TU, that loading was no issue last year (you poo pooed it all year). Can I ask, have you actually listened to the Demonland podcast with Selwyn?

Secondly, between approximately Rounds 11 to 19 in 2021, 2022 and we're seeing it again in 2023, we've seen a marked drop off in performance. That doesn't mean we lose every game, but it is a factor.

This year it is most obviously apparent in our scoring accuracy, which is not only a by-product of fatigue, but our slower, less direct ball movement that then offers less penetrating forward 50 thrusts, is also related to fatigue.

You'd like Selwyn on another podcast interview to come out and say we increase training of players during Rounds x to y? Or have we just suddenly become a poor footy team that can't execute three years in a row, after starting the first two 9 zip?

Edited June 25, 20231 yr by A F

Oh dear...

Loading discussion has reared its head into this thread for the 2nd year in a row @JimmyGadson

Couldn't make this stuff up.

1 hour ago, A F said:

You're very much determined, TU, that loading was no issue last year (you poo pooed it all year). Can I ask, have you actually listened to the Demonland podcast with Selwyn?

Secondly, between approximately Rounds 11 to 19 in 2021, 2022 and we're seeing it again in 2023, we've seen a marked drop off in performance. This year it is most obviously apparent in our scoring accuracy, which is not only a by-product of fatigue, but our slower, less direct ball movement that then offers less penetrating forward 50 thrusts, is also related to fatigue.

You'd like Selwyn on another podcast interview to come out and say we increase training of players during Rounds x to y? Would much evidence would you like? Or have we just suddenly become a poor footy team that can't execute three years in a row, after starting the first two 9 zip?

All excellent points AF.

I'd add one more (and then stay out of it, i mean who can be bothered - if someone is not convinced by the mountain of evidence by now - teams losing after the bye being just one more - then their minds are made up).

Our fitness fell away late in the 2022 season. Some argue that is evidence against the fact we did a mid season heavy block of training  (which frankly is just assinine).

Well, the obvious counter is that whilst it did not work for us - it DID work for the cats, who openly said they copied our approach (and acknowledged that a factor in their perennial failure to win a flag despite finishing top 4 in mutiple seasons was running our of gas late in the season)

The cats ran out the season as powerfully as we did in 2021, and like us had a clear fitness edge over all other teams (bar perhaps the pies). It was a massive factor in their dominant run from aprox this point in the 2022 season.

Having adopted our mid season heavy block of training, the Cats won the flag.

So, the last two flags, at least, have been won by teams who have done a mid season heavy block of training.

No doubt it is industry standard now. 

Not that you'd know that listening to media people scratch their heads trying to explain how freo, coming off a bye and clearly fatigued, could be so, so poor against the giants.

And play so well the very next, beating a top 8 team convincingly, looking a completely different side, and magical running over the ground and looking fresh.

Same deal for the suns, who fell in a heap last week, and were out of gas and look a completely different team today (against the hawks, who out ran and smashed the post bye lions just a couple of weeks back).

Or even amusingly, how they will explain why so far, if the suns go on to win their game against the hawks, the only two teams who have won after the bye have played a team also coming off a bye (saints and pies). 

Edited June 25, 20231 yr by binman

18 minutes ago, dazzledavey36 said:

Oh dear...

Loading discussion has reared its head into this thread for the 2nd year in a row @JimmyGadson

Couldn't make this stuff up.

Do you not think loading is an issue?

Here we go.

Loaders vs Anti-loaders

FWIW I’m on the loading side.

Edited June 25, 20231 yr by Dee Zephyr

I’m a loader

Was a disappointing effort in the last quarter against Geelong.

Lots of fumbling of the ball. However, I do take into account the wet weather.

The fanatical (feral) crowd down in Geelong was certainly a factor too.

Although, Geelong kicked a few "easy" goals in the last quarter as well.

Would of really liked a win down at the Cattery. But it just goes to show how difficult it is to beat the Cats down there on their own dung heap at Kardinia Park.

Hopefully, we bounce back against GWS in Alice Springs this coming week as we desperately need a good win to keep in  touch with the top 4 on the AFL ladder.

18 minutes ago, Roost it far said:

Do you not think loading is an issue?

I think people want to find excuses for the sake of it.

It's like putting a band aid on a bigger wound.

There are more pressing concerns then then this loading myth which was put to bed the moment we lost our first final.

The believers were telling us all that we were in a huge loading phase this time last year and it would set us up well come September. How did that go?

The believers went MIA after our finals exit last year and couldn't even come up with an answer when they were questioned about it. 

And here we are again, Déjà vu.

I think we are loading.. 

The club has loaded the players up on the idea that are better than they are.. and the members/supporters loaded up on rhetoric that we are learning from things that keep happening. 
I think our coaches are loaded up with too much false hope. And if it goes [censored] up again this year, I hope we are loaded up with a new coaching group and an actual forward as a forward coach! 

15 minutes ago, dazzledavey36 said:

I think people want to find excuses for the sake of it.

It's like putting a band aid on a bigger wound.

There are more pressing concerns then then this loading myth which was put to bed the moment we lost our first final.

The believers were telling us all that we were in a huge loading phase this time last year and it would set us up well come September. How did that go?

The believers went MIA after our finals exit last year and couldn't even come up with an answer when they were questioned about it. 

And here we are again, Déjà vu.

Yes but our finals campaign was clearly hampered more by injury than anything else. I’m not sure that’s a good example 

25 minutes ago, Roost it far said:

I’m a loader

Same, RiF. Mainly because the ppl who support the loading theory have valid arguments and can back them up. Also, they take emotion out of the conversation, unlike the unbelievers, if you will, who are usually fired up (in particular after a loss) and rather than put forth a legitimate case, they’ll waste time trying to make the believers answer dumb questions like, “we lost, how’s your loading theory working now?!” Totally unproductive, adds nothing to the debate whatsoever. 

45 minutes ago, Dee Zephyr said:

Here we go.

Loaders vs Anti-loaders

FWIW I’m on the loading side.

Very similar to the vaxers v anti vaxers.

FWIW I'm on the vaxers side.