Trust In This Team

[Kieren from Canberra 56]

I rang in to Demonland tonight & was thankful Andy & Binman gave me some time to share my thoughts on this great team we barrack for. Here's what I said & what I feel.

I'd like to share my thoughts on the Redlegs as a whole circa 2023. As a club, we're in rarefied air; a men's, women's & VFL Premiership all within the last 2 years. A recruiting, administrative & conditioning team that made impeccable decisions for almost 10 years. The highest paid up memberships in the history of the club. A pool of generational talent signed to long term deals. A strong list of youngsters pushing our best 22 for team selection. A destination club that has attracted All Australians, Best & Fairest's and previous club captains. A team of A list assistant coaches. A coach that tasted the highest success in his playing career & now also as a head coach, that not only learnt from a genius & passionate Demon fan in Paul Roos, but is young enough to relate to his players, young enough to grow with his players & young enough to be around for another decade which creates an environment of trust & cohesion.

If you think back to your amateur team sports days, be it AFL footy, local cricket or even indoor soccer, when did you, as a team, create success? When you had consistency & cohesion & trust. When you had the same 22 fellas running out to kick the sherrin, the same 11 blokes going out to field, the same 5 friends putting on shingaurds. Why, because you built patterns, game plans and trust in their abilities. You could anticipate what your team mates were going to do & when they needed your help.
The Dees finally have this. Stability, trust & importantly genuine class.

What we don't have is a recent history of it. They're learning to be successful.
Just as we as a supporter base are learning with them. We're not used to this success, being the favourites to win every game, being in every game, no longer being thrashed each week. But what I consistently see when I read frustrated fans' posts on various platforms is that we should be better. And it's this word I'd like to analyse. 'Better than what' is what I would like to ask.
Is it possible to win every game? Of course not. Is it possible to only lose 4 games in a season. History would suggest not often.
It's been decades since we've had this kind of heat. Teams need to play at their very best to beat us. So each week, we are playing the very best the opposition has to give, week in, week out. This takes its toll on the boys; you simply cannot be up every week. You simply cannot be 'better' all the time.

This not an excuse, or a defeatist attitude, it's a fact. We all know the cliches; you don't win flags in 'insert any month except September', you have to peak at the right time, you must finish top 4 to win a flag. They're cliches for a reason, because the better teams have fulfilled these cliches better than other teams.

As Binman says, if you have all the pieces in place as we do (talent, good governance etc), the key determinant is injuries & increasingly suspensions. These are the things to concern yourself of. Not the team itself.

In the cut & thrust of battle ie the home & away season, it can be hard to pull back & see the bigger picture. What is it? The future has never been better.
It's ok to be angry at losses but let's get behind them rather than walk away. Let's be that club that turns the umps whistles our way with our own noise of affirmation. Let's continue to pay our membership, to buy whatever merch we can afford from the Demon shop to assist the club to find a spiritual home for us congregate; not Casey or Gosch but a real home. Let's not feed into the collective anxiety that if we don't win a flag in the next few years, we never will again, but rather strive for sustained prolonged success. Because then the flags are inevitable.

Simply my point is, trust in this team, this collective organisation. The club has never been in a better position. If we can't enjoy this now, when can we enjoy this team?

[Dee Zephyr 19,269]

[Guest]

24 minutes ago, Kieren from Canberra said:

I rang in to Demonland tonight & was thankful Andy & Binman gave me some time to share my thoughts on this great team we barrack for. Here's what I said & what I feel.

I'd like to share my thoughts on the Redlegs as a whole circa 2023. As a club, we're in rarefied air; a men's, women's & VFL Premiership all within the last 2 years. A recruiting, administrative & conditioning team that made impeccable decisions for almost 10 years. The highest paid up memberships in the history of the club. A pool of generational talent signed to long term deals. A strong list of youngsters pushing our best 22 for team selection. A destination club that has attracted All Australians, Best & Fairest's and previous club captains. A team of A list assistant coaches. A coach that tasted the highest success in his playing career & now also as a head coach, that not only learnt from a genius & passionate Demon fan in Paul Roos, but is young enough to relate to his players, young enough to grow with his players & young enough to be around for another decade which creates an environment of trust & cohesion.

If you think back to your amateur team sports days, be it AFL footy, local cricket or even indoor soccer, when did you, as a team, create success? When you had consistency & cohesion & trust. When you had the same 22 fellas running out to kick the sherrin, the same 11 blokes going out to field, the same 5 friends putting on shingaurds. Why, because you built patterns, game plans and trust in their abilities. You could anticipate what your team mates were going to do & when they needed your help.
The Dees finally have this. Stability, trust & importantly genuine class.

What we don't have is a recent history of it. They're learning to be successful.
Just as we as a supporter base are learning with them. We're not used to this success, being the favourites to win every game, being in every game, no longer being thrashed each week. But what I consistently see when I read frustrated fans' posts on various platforms is that we should be better. And it's this word I'd like to analyse. 'Better than what' is what I would like to ask.
Is it possible to win every game? Of course not. Is it possible to only lose 4 games in a season. History would suggest not often.
It's been decades since we've had this kind of heat. Teams need to play at their very best to beat us. So each week, we are playing the very best the opposition has to give, week in, week out. This takes its toll on the boys; you simply cannot be up every week. You simply cannot be 'better' all the time.

This not an excuse, or a defeatist attitude, it's a fact. We all know the cliches; you don't win flags in 'insert any month except September', you have to peak at the right time, you must finish top 4 to win a flag. They're cliches for a reason, because the better teams have fulfilled these cliches better than other teams.

As Binman says, if you have all the pieces in place as we do (talent, good governance etc), the key determinant is injuries & increasingly suspensions. These are the things to concern yourself of. Not the team itself.

In the cut & thrust of battle ie the home & away season, it can be hard to pull back & see the bigger picture. What is it? The future has never been better.
It's ok to be angry at losses but let's get behind them rather than walk away. Let's be that club that turns the umps whistles our way with our own noise of affirmation. Let's continue to pay our membership, to buy whatever merch we can afford from the Demon shop to assist the club to find a spiritual home for us congregate; not Casey or Gosch but a real home. Let's not feed into the collective anxiety that if we don't win a flag in the next few years, we never will again, but rather strive for sustained prolonged success. Because then the flags are inevitable.

Simply my point is, trust in this team, this collective organisation. The club has never been in a better position. If we can't enjoy this now, when can we enjoy this team?

Thank you, Kieren. My sentiments exactly. ❤️💙

[JimmyGadson 3,455]

I will endeavour to read this post after every loss. 

Unfortunately, I'm one of those supporters who doesn't take a loss well, especially if we've been patchy within a game. My proclivity to seeing the negative gets the better of me. And perhaps some of that impatience has been influenced by seeing the club go through such dark times. Like it has with others.  And that I'm hyper aware of the finite window that exists for clubs to be in with a shot of a flag when everything is in order.. And because we're firmly in this window, I'm hyper critical of the team at times. 

I admire your perspective. And you're right in that I now hope that even if we do dip over the next few years, it won't be long until we are competing again, ala Collingwood, Geelong, Sydney.. Due to the strong position the club is in across all facets. 

One flag at the G this decade is all I ask. Please. 

 

 

 

[monoccular 17,576]

1 hour ago, Kieren from Canberra said:

I rang in to Demonland tonight & was thankful Andy & Binman gave me some time to share my thoughts on this great team we barrack for. Here's what I said & what I feel.

I'd like to share my thoughts on the Redlegs as a whole circa 2023. As a club, we're in rarefied air; a men's, women's & VFL Premiership all within the last 2 years. A recruiting, administrative & conditioning team that made impeccable decisions for almost 10 years. The highest paid up memberships in the history of the club. A pool of generational talent signed to long term deals. A strong list of youngsters pushing our best 22 for team selection. A destination club that has attracted All Australians, Best & Fairest's and previous club captains. A team of A list assistant coaches. A coach that tasted the highest success in his playing career & now also as a head coach, that not only learnt from a genius & passionate Demon fan in Paul Roos, but is young enough to relate to his players, young enough to grow with his players & young enough to be around for another decade which creates an environment of trust & cohesion.

If you think back to your amateur team sports days, be it AFL footy, local cricket or even indoor soccer, when did you, as a team, create success? When you had consistency & cohesion & trust. When you had the same 22 fellas running out to kick the sherrin, the same 11 blokes going out to field, the same 5 friends putting on shingaurds. Why, because you built patterns, game plans and trust in their abilities. You could anticipate what your team mates were going to do & when they needed your help.
The Dees finally have this. Stability, trust & importantly genuine class.

What we don't have is a recent history of it. They're learning to be successful.
Just as we as a supporter base are learning with them. We're not used to this success, being the favourites to win every game, being in every game, no longer being thrashed each week. But what I consistently see when I read frustrated fans' posts on various platforms is that we should be better. And it's this word I'd like to analyse. 'Better than what' is what I would like to ask.
Is it possible to win every game? Of course not. Is it possible to only lose 4 games in a season. History would suggest not often.
It's been decades since we've had this kind of heat. Teams need to play at their very best to beat us. So each week, we are playing the very best the opposition has to give, week in, week out. This takes its toll on the boys; you simply cannot be up every week. You simply cannot be 'better' all the time.

This not an excuse, or a defeatist attitude, it's a fact. We all know the cliches; you don't win flags in 'insert any month except September', you have to peak at the right time, you must finish top 4 to win a flag. They're cliches for a reason, because the better teams have fulfilled these cliches better than other teams.

As Binman says, if you have all the pieces in place as we do (talent, good governance etc), the key determinant is injuries & increasingly suspensions. These are the things to concern yourself of. Not the team itself.

In the cut & thrust of battle ie the home & away season, it can be hard to pull back & see the bigger picture. What is it? The future has never been better.
It's ok to be angry at losses but let's get behind them rather than walk away. Let's be that club that turns the umps whistles our way with our own noise of affirmation. Let's continue to pay our membership, to buy whatever merch we can afford from the Demon shop to assist the club to find a spiritual home for us congregate; not Casey or Gosch but a real home. Let's not feed into the collective anxiety that if we don't win a flag in the next few years, we never will again, but rather strive for sustained prolonged success. Because then the flags are inevitable.

Simply my point is, trust in this team, this collective organisation. The club has never been in a better position. If we can't enjoy this now, when can we enjoy this team?

Kieren - great post and I agree with most of it. 

However this needs a tweak:
“…..when did you, as a team, create success? When you had consistency & cohesion & trust. When you had the same 22 fellas running out to kick the sherrin,….”

I think that “the same 22” may offer some stability but 2022 showed that basic the same 22 who got us the ultimate in 2021 has limited shelf life and a failure to renew cost us in 2022.   That has been addressed this year, partly through necessity of injury and form collapses.  

[leave it to deever 17,521]

I think the fear and concern is that we could end up like the bulldogs after their long breaking flag drought.

Similarly they too successfully changed a lot of things like many of the positives you mentioned about our beloved club.

Since their premiership, they have had finals success but also failure. Quite a few years of contending but not delivering the ultimate prize.

Yes this success is wonderful and better than being on the receiving end of losing all the time but maybe we were hoping for back to back cups or at least another one this year

It's not to say we won't but it's not looking as likely lately. As you say we have some wonderful talent but like all talent in Afl, it has a window for achievement. Are supporters genuinely concerned that this window is closing? I'd say so. Are we like the players, frustrated by a weekly occurrence of injury? Yes. Has our club been exposed in our forward line issues and other clubs outcoaching us?

It's not all doom and gloom but after a shocking end to last year's clear chances, this season seems to be slipping behind again.

It's great to celebrate our success but sadly that can bring contentment which ironically leads to failure. Perhaps like the bulldogs, breaking that long drought was enough for the club and their hunger was satisfied.

I don't want to be too negative but we seem to be a shadow of the 21 side atm.

 

[bobby1554 1,263]

Good post Kieren, very well written.

But I think Deever’s post is spot on. I don’t think our best 22 is good enough anymore. Other teams have gone past us. A few of our players are struggling to reach the heights they did in 21; Gawn, Brayshaw, Langdon, May, Lever, to name a few. Our midfield is not as effective. We don’t have a dominant power forward. The Gawn Grundy combination is not delivering the big advantage we thought it would.

I genuinely fear we will lose the next 4 games.

[DubDee 26,124]

Melbourne supporters are a lot like the Irish. We don’t know how to be happy and frankly we are happier when we’re miserable 

[Roost it far 8,634]

We need to keep bringing in talent. This years draft is that opportunity. We also need to attract some mid age running power and a forward, perhaps Georgiades is gettable. Continual improvement. Flag at the G with Petracca playing.

[layzie 34,014]

10 hours ago, Kieren from Canberra said:

I rang in to Demonland tonight & was thankful Andy & Binman gave me some time to share my thoughts on this great team we barrack for. Here's what I said & what I feel.

I'd like to share my thoughts on the Redlegs as a whole circa 2023. As a club, we're in rarefied air; a men's, women's & VFL Premiership all within the last 2 years. A recruiting, administrative & conditioning team that made impeccable decisions for almost 10 years. The highest paid up memberships in the history of the club. A pool of generational talent signed to long term deals. A strong list of youngsters pushing our best 22 for team selection. A destination club that has attracted All Australians, Best & Fairest's and previous club captains. A team of A list assistant coaches. A coach that tasted the highest success in his playing career & now also as a head coach, that not only learnt from a genius & passionate Demon fan in Paul Roos, but is young enough to relate to his players, young enough to grow with his players & young enough to be around for another decade which creates an environment of trust & cohesion.

If you think back to your amateur team sports days, be it AFL footy, local cricket or even indoor soccer, when did you, as a team, create success? When you had consistency & cohesion & trust. When you had the same 22 fellas running out to kick the sherrin, the same 11 blokes going out to field, the same 5 friends putting on shingaurds. Why, because you built patterns, game plans and trust in their abilities. You could anticipate what your team mates were going to do & when they needed your help.
The Dees finally have this. Stability, trust & importantly genuine class.

What we don't have is a recent history of it. They're learning to be successful.
Just as we as a supporter base are learning with them. We're not used to this success, being the favourites to win every game, being in every game, no longer being thrashed each week. But what I consistently see when I read frustrated fans' posts on various platforms is that we should be better. And it's this word I'd like to analyse. 'Better than what' is what I would like to ask.
Is it possible to win every game? Of course not. Is it possible to only lose 4 games in a season. History would suggest not often.
It's been decades since we've had this kind of heat. Teams need to play at their very best to beat us. So each week, we are playing the very best the opposition has to give, week in, week out. This takes its toll on the boys; you simply cannot be up every week. You simply cannot be 'better' all the time.

This not an excuse, or a defeatist attitude, it's a fact. We all know the cliches; you don't win flags in 'insert any month except September', you have to peak at the right time, you must finish top 4 to win a flag. They're cliches for a reason, because the better teams have fulfilled these cliches better than other teams.

As Binman says, if you have all the pieces in place as we do (talent, good governance etc), the key determinant is injuries & increasingly suspensions. These are the things to concern yourself of. Not the team itself.

In the cut & thrust of battle ie the home & away season, it can be hard to pull back & see the bigger picture. What is it? The future has never been better.
It's ok to be angry at losses but let's get behind them rather than walk away. Let's be that club that turns the umps whistles our way with our own noise of affirmation. Let's continue to pay our membership, to buy whatever merch we can afford from the Demon shop to assist the club to find a spiritual home for us congregate; not Casey or Gosch but a real home. Let's not feed into the collective anxiety that if we don't win a flag in the next few years, we never will again, but rather strive for sustained prolonged success. Because then the flags are inevitable.

Simply my point is, trust in this team, this collective organisation. The club has never been in a better position. If we can't enjoy this now, when can we enjoy this team?

Excellent post sir.

[Webber 10,538]

Great post @Kieren from Canberra. The club and team intent are indeed trustworthy. The application of that intent on game day this season is however a bit more fickle. But that’s just footy, which we should all (myself) understand, despite struggling with the very concept.
 

What I have lost complete trust in is both the intent and application of the AFL, reflected most egregiously through the complete shambles that is umpiring, and obviously the current actions of the MRO, a predictable extension of that shambles. And we should all be deeply concerned about this. Predictable, consistent, TRUSTWORTHY adjudication of the ‘rules and laws of the game’ is central to its survival. Watch any AFL game you like, and the standard of adjudication is simply appalling. Many invoke the idea that predicting umpiring decisions is akin to a raffle. This is no longer hyperbole. Even as an impartial observer of non-Dees games, it’s wholly depressing (laughably even, because it isn’t the MFC) how utterly spectral are its umpiring decisions. As many have suggested, it’s making the game close to unwatchable, and for this central reason. Yet nothing happens. There is no accountability, because the AFL dictate total silence from everyone in its employ, at risk of punishment and censure. Even questioning the quality of umpiring is ‘outlawed’. There’s a word for this type of authority. And we should all want to know how this has come to pass? It’s killing the game. 
 

rant over. 
 

 

[McQueen 17,867]

I have trust in the team. 
 

Just not the administration of the game right now. 
If I was to go out on a limb, I wouldn’t be surprised if overall fan numbers decrease significantly next year. 
 

I’ll continue to buy my MFC membership and support the club but the AFL can get stuffed. 

[rjay 25,093]

7 minutes ago, Webber said:

What I have lost complete trust in is both the intent and application of the AFL, reflected most egregiously through the complete shambles that is umpiring, and obviously the current actions of the MRO,

 

5 minutes ago, McQueen said:

I have trust in the team. 
 

Just not the administration of the game right now. 
If I was to go out on a limb, I wouldn’t be surprised if overall fan numbers decrease significantly next year. 
 

I’ll continue to buy my MFC membership and support the club but the AFL can get stuffed. 

The inconsistencies are a real issue and I'm not sure what the ultimate game from the AFL is...

I guess at some stage the game may be come a non contact sport.

Hunter alluded to this the other night with his comment about giving clear path to Rozzeeeee.

Will it be a good enough spectacle and keep drawing the support of fans?

It's going to be an interesting watch.

I'm not sure the AFL have the right people (brain power) in place to sort out the mess the game has become.

They look at the crowd figures and give themselves another bonus.

By the time Tassie get into the competition it will be a very different game if they keep pushing it this way.

If the rusted on supporters (us that are taken for granted) are finding it a hard watch then there is trouble brewing.

[BW511 2,688]

Great post, succinct and timely! I don’t agree entirely but can appreciate your view.

We’ve played 10 games so far and of those we’ve been woeful, serviceable and brilliant. I think we currently operate with far to big a gap between our best and our worst.

Our best can match anyone but our best is only fleeting so far in 2023

The way the AFL is being run is causing mass chaos, they are in no man’s land. Are they an entertainment industry, a professional sporting industry or a legal industry. No one knows and I’d wager the amount of people that are genuine fans is dwindling.

 

Edited May 23, 2023 by BW511

[McQueen 17,867]

34 minutes ago, rjay said:

 

The inconsistencies are a real issue and I'm not sure what the ultimate game from the AFL is...

I guess at some stage the game may be come a non contact sport.

Hunter alluded to this the other night with his comment about giving clear path to Rozzeeeee.

Will it be a good enough spectacle and keep drawing the support of fans?

It's going to be an interesting watch.

I'm not sure the AFL have the right people (brain power) in place to sort out the mess the game has become.

They look at the crowd figures and give themselves another bonus.

By the time Tassie get into the competition it will be a very different game if they keep pushing it this way.

If the rusted on supporters (us that are taken for granted) are finding it a hard watch then there is trouble brewing.

And I’ll be smuggling my own booze into the next game I watch. 

$14 plastic beers. Pfft

What a complete rip off it is if you don’t go to the footy with your own graze and drinks. 
A joke. 

[rjay 25,093]

1 minute ago, McQueen said:

And I’ll be smuggling my own booze into the next game I watch. 

$14 plastic beers. Pfft

What a complete rip off it is if you don’t go to the footy with your own graze and drinks. 
A joke. 

$14...I haven't been to a game since before covid.

I'm not in a hurry if this is what's going on.

[McQueen 17,867]

3 minutes ago, rjay said:

$14...I haven't been to a game since before covid.

I'm not in a hurry if this is what's going on.

Pacific Ale at Marvel. 

[Roost it far 8,634]

57 minutes ago, McQueen said:

I have trust in the team. 
 

Just not the administration of the game right now. 
If I was to go out on a limb, I wouldn’t be surprised if overall fan numbers decrease significantly next year. 
 

I’ll continue to buy my MFC membership and support the club but the AFL can get stuffed. 

As an MCC member it costs me $110 for tickets for the kids and easily $60 for travel and snacks (not lunch….poor quality snacks) That just feels like way too much to catch a game of footy with the kids.

[At the break of Gawn 4,460]

Where this club has come back from is remarkable. It’s no wonder that during the post match grand final press conference that Goody mentioned he was in tears before the game even started as he reflected upon how far this club has come back from.

The problem with success though, is once you taste it, you want more and more of it. As a supporter, I thought seeing us win the flag in 2021 would fill my cup for many years. However, the fact I wasn’t able to see it in person at the MCG has left a void, that I, and I imagine many others, also feel. Given the talent of this group, if another can’t be achieved, it will be a failure.

Edited May 24, 2023 by At the break of Gawn

[Kent 2,914]

33 minutes ago, McQueen said:

Pacific Ale at Marvel. 

you cannot buy a scotch and soda in the MCC reserve Pacific Ale is the second worst beer in australia

[McQueen 17,867]

3 minutes ago, Kent said:

you cannot buy a scotch and soda in the MCC reserve Pacific Ale is the second worst beer in australia

I’m interested to know what you rate as the worst?

[BDA 22,895]

2 hours ago, DubDee said:

Melbourne supporters are a lot like the Irish. We don’t know how to be happy and frankly we are happier when we’re miserable 

We're happy when we're drinking and singing Dub. And complaining about the English.

[BDA 22,895]

Excellent post @Kieren from Canberra. We are in great shape. The FD has really got its act together. 

I think expectation wise, given the list we have, we should be aiming for Top 4 while we're in our window. Unless injuries derail us which can always happen.

Once you get to prelim stage you need the luck. sometimes you can get jumped like Richmond did against the pies a few years back. You can have an off day. injuries, umpiring calls. And the other teams aren't bad either. The pies are the best team in it at the moment. The Lions will be hard to beat as well. Doggies and Port making a case.

[Orion 332]

I'm finding it increasingly difficult to see how we're winning it this year.  We're having the same problems as last year

[Roost it far 8,634]

1 hour ago, Kent said:

you cannot buy a scotch and soda in the MCC reserve Pacific Ale is the second worst beer in australia

Hard pressed finding a worse one