David King First Crack

[dl4e 5,851]

King does have a point although he does like to sensationalise everything. I think this Saturday could be very interesting especially with the rucks. If we play like our first half against port then we will get done like a dinner and against freo that would be unbearable.

[WinterofDiscontent 123]

Gawn might have to give up his all consuming desire to be seen as a likeable goofball and harness some nastiness if he wants his twilight years to be of any value. When we're being smashed in clearances, he's not taking marks around the ground, and responds to being targeted by flopping, moping, and appealing for free kicks, other clubs are going to very easily identify how to put him off his game and employ the same tactics week in week out. 

[DeeSpencer 25,684]

36 minutes ago, Roost it far said:

I actually am as well, I was adding some light humour to the mix. Whilst i don't see Smith as an answer we know that TMac and BBB are done so we need to play the others. I'm not adverse to Schache but pretty sure that's my rose coloured glasses talking.

I’d like to give Schache a go but with 2 rucks it’s just a lot of height, it’s a shame Schache’s form and fitness didn’t line up with Gawn’s injury 

[Gawndy the Great 9,011]

Kingy is going after us on all of his platforms. I actually don't mind it to be honest. Most of what he has been saying is pretty much consistent with what we have all been thinking. I'm not totally 100% on the culture claims, but there is something definitely up with attitude against teams that can match it with us and not playing for each other. It takes a bit more for it to be culture. The defensive side is absolute for all to see. 

The players will hear it and see it and that to me puts them on notice, which is exactly where i want them to be. Hopefully the coaching panel don't escape their fare whack as well. 

Also see that Goodwin's contract is up end of 2024 and that the view is that he'd ink a contract extension without too much fuss. Is it that clear cut though? - I'm not calling for Goodwin's head (just yet), but I wouldn't rush to ink an extension until we at least finish the year I would have thought. We have 2 maybe 3 years of window left right now and if we cannot challenge this year (pass rate is a PF), then i'd be looking to change things up and that may mean some turnover in the coaching staff. 

[Hellaintabadplacetobe 4,294]

6 hours ago, Demonsone said:

King questioned our culture with how the players didn’t jump to assist Gawn with the way the Port players were treating him, said this wouldn’t have happened in 2021

I said the exact same thing in post match thread. 

We were hard and ruthless in 2021, have not shown it for a long time since.

[Orion 332]

7 minutes ago, Gawndy the Great said:

Kingy is going after us on all of his platforms

Some people get defensive when this happens but I love it.   Nothing gets a team going like the media blowtorch.  Look at Port Adelaide as a prime example.  So I say...go harder!

[beelzebub 23,353]

2 hours ago, mauriesy said:

So retaliation works, does it? Like JVR giving away a goal.

I'd much rather retaliate on the scoreboard.

He was being ragged all the game. He decided he'd had enough. Good for him. A pox on his team mates for doing sfa prior.  Yes it was designed that the kid would crack it... and the umps...buffoons they are got sucked in.

Do you not understand its a physical game. VERY. There are elements of jungle rule out there. It's not chess....well, not the board version.

It's competitive  and combatant.  There's certainly grounds for standing yours. That is to say a very big part of the game is territorial,  both physically as well as mentally.  It's not kick to kick and waxing turns.

The suggestion you can just "add" to the scoreboard is comical. The path to scoring is all about the 'above'.

The game is about winning.  WIinning is accomplished by being better than your opponent.  That encompasses a myriad of areas, not the least of which are fitness and strength . An adjunct is of course sklll as well as football prowess,  but you can have those and still get beaten as you can literally get beaten into the ground and you wont be afforded opportunity. 

The best and most successful teams have a balance and blend of attributes..  The really good teams deny their opponents at all levels and all paths.

A lot of footy is deemed between the ears. Physical intimidation is a tool to that end.

Anyone who has ever stepped across a boundary to front up for competitive sport, team or solo knows how much is the physical ability to do it and how much the mental strength to apply.

Retaliation,  i sense, you mean direct [censored] for tat ? Arguably rarely wins the day, but might square the ledger.

No...not Retaliation per se...but bringing the fight and niggle right back at them.

Make those hits, bumps tackles really effective ( you cant say hurt anymore.. might upset and trigger someone)

If you're prepared to led rough shod .... well.... you may as well not play. 

[DeeSpencer 25,684]

8 minutes ago, Gawndy the Great said:

Also see that Goodwin's contract is up end of 2024 and that the view is that he'd ink a contract extension without too much fuss. Is it that clear cut though? - I'm not calling for Goodwin's head (just yet), but I wouldn't rush to ink an extension until we at least finish the year I would have thought. We have 2 maybe 3 years of window left right now and if we cannot challenge this year (pass rate is a PF), then i'd be looking to change things up and that may mean some turnover in the coaching staff. 

Sacking a premiership coach worked out great 60 years ago, why not try it again?

Assistant coaches are the move IMO. The cap coming up could allow us to add another full time guy and shuffle or replace some line coaches who should have 3-5 year windows in one role.

I also disagree on our window. I think we’re in the middle of rebuilding our talls right now with Petty, JVR, Disco, in time Jeffo/Adams and probably a mature recruit or two. The aim being that group starts to really hit their straps from 2025. We’re burning cap and list spots on talls at Casey.

And we’re in surplus a first round pick when usually we operate in a deficit. If we have a Jackson, Pickett, Rivers draft this year - probably focussed on mid, outside run, forward talent - we can have that group in the team in 2025 too.

[Vipercrunch 2,827]

What Port did required a response, but "flying the flag" is a notion from a bygone era.  All it does if give away feekicks, possible reports and definetely distracts us from what actually counts, which is winning the contested ball or applying immense pressure on them if they have it.  Leave the umpires to sort out these [censored] tactics (which they did to a certain extent), play harder within the rules and win the game.  Then those nonsense tactics will stop.

[beelzebub 23,353]

3 minutes ago, Vipercrunch said:

What Port did required a response, but "flying the flag" is a notion from a bygone era.  All it does if give away feekicks, possible reports and definetely distracts us from what actually counts, which is winning the contested ball or applying immense pressure on them if they have it.  Leave the umpires to sort out these [censored] tactics (which they did to a certain extent), play harder within the rules and win the game.  Then those nonsense tactics will stop.

Leave it to the umpires ... 🤔🤔🤔🤔

Tmac ....head practically taken offf...

Free kick Port

 

Righto.....

 

[Red But Mostly Blue 4,547]

3 minutes ago, Vipercrunch said:

What Port did required a response, but "flying the flag" is a notion from a bygone era.  All it does if give away feekicks, possible reports and definetely distracts us from what actually counts, which is winning the contested ball or applying immense pressure on them if they have it.  Leave the umpires to sort out these [censored] tactics (which they did to a certain extent), play harder within the rules and win the game.  Then those nonsense tactics will stop.

100% - banding together and showing support is fine. Free kicks given, especially on a night when it's clear that the crowd is likely influencing them in the home team's favour, is just wasteful. Proves nothing. 

I wish some of our guys who went missing flew the flag by focusing on doing their bit to win the game. 

[YesitwasaWin4theAges 6,702]

1 hour ago, beelzebub said:

He was being ragged all the game. He decided he'd had enough. Good for him. A pox on his team mates for doing sfa prior.  Yes it was designed that the kid would crack it... and the umps...buffoons they are got sucked in.

Do you not understand its a physical game. VERY. There are elements of jungle rule out there. It's not chess....well, not the board version.

It's competitive  and combatant.  There's certainly grounds for standing yours. That is to say a very big part of the game is territorial,  both physically as well as mentally.  It's not kick to kick and waxing turns.

The suggestion you can just "add" to the scoreboard is comical. The path to scoring is all about the 'above'.

The game is about winning.  WIinning is accomplished by being better than your opponent.  That encompasses a myriad of areas, not the least of which are fitness and strength . An adjunct is of course sklll as well as football prowess,  but you can have those and still get beaten as you can literally get beaten into the ground and you wont be afforded opportunity. 

The best and most successful teams have a balance and blend of attributes..  The really good teams deny their opponents at all levels and all paths.

A lot of footy is deemed between the ears. Physical intimidation is a tool to that end.

Anyone who has ever stepped across a boundary to front up for competitive sport, team or solo knows how much is the physical ability to do it and how much the mental strength to apply.

Retaliation,  i sense, you mean direct [censored] for tat ? Arguably rarely wins the day, but might square the ledger.

No...not Retaliation per se...but bringing the fight and niggle right back at them.

Make those hits, bumps tackles really effective ( you cant say hurt anymore.. might upset and trigger someone)

If you're prepared to led rough shod .... well.... you may as well not play. 

I agree with your thoughts Beelz, but JVR has to be smarter in that instance especially inside D50 and game on the line.

He had 3 quarters to shove him in the chest hard to mark a statement in a part of the ground where it wouldn't cost us.

We were happy with ourselves Friday Night we need to find that inner mongrel (C word) in the big games.

I can count 7-8 players who play on the edge in our side Hibbo, Maysie, Pickett, JVR, Vines, Sparrow, Petty and Salem to a degree.

Gawndy have to step up to the plate in the next month.

[Gawndy the Great 9,011]

7 minutes ago, YesitwasaWin4theAges said:

I agree with your thoughts Beelz, but JVR has to be smarter in that instance especially inside D50 and game on the line.

He had 3 quarters to shove him in the chest hard to mark a statement in a part of the ground where it wouldn't cost us.

We were happy with ourselves Friday Night we need to find that inner mongrel (C word) in the big games.

I can count 7-8 players who play on the edge in our side Hibbo, Maysie, Pickett, JVR, Vines, Sparrow, Petty and Salem to a degree.

Gawndy have to step up to the plate in the next month.

Salem....really? He was one of the players that complained to the PA when they did that brutal pre-season along with TMac a number of years ago.

[YearOfTheDees 3,266]

Brodie addressed this in today press conference. 

[sue 9,102]

1 minute ago, YearOfTheDees said:

Brodie addressed this in today press conference. 

https://www.afl.com.au/news/932348/-a-badge-of-honour-dees-skipper-unfazed-by-close-checking

Why doesn't King have a go at the umpires who don't pay frees for blocks way off the ball etc etc rather than have a go at players for not escalating actions which are not part of the game.   

[Straight Sets Simon 23,113]

Not sure about the flying the flag business but we do lack grit.

Too often second to the ball, not sticking tackles and not putting head over the ground ball too often.

It's why we need to win clearances, we need first use and to be running down hill.  We are almost unstoppable when this happens otherwise we come right back to the pack.

[Willmoy1947 4,085]

Carlton got stuck into Cameron for exactly the same thing and to an extent it worked.

Pendlebury, it didn't because he is their Captain. They stuck up fiercely for him, as we should stick up for our Captain.

[Roost it far 8,263]

58 minutes ago, Vipercrunch said:

What Port did required a response, but "flying the flag" is a notion from a bygone era.  All it does if give away feekicks, possible reports and definetely distracts us from what actually counts, which is winning the contested ball or applying immense pressure on them if they have it.  Leave the umpires to sort out these [censored] tactics (which they did to a certain extent), play harder within the rules and win the game.  Then those nonsense tactics will stop.

Collingwood do it every week and they’re 2 games clear on top. I’m not talking the way Brisbane tried last year, I’m talking sticking up for your mates and showing the opposition you’re running the show, not them. 

[Willmoy1947 4,085]

9 minutes ago, sue said:

https://www.afl.com.au/news/932348/-a-badge-of-honour-dees-skipper-unfazed-by-close-checking

Why doesn't King have a go at the umpires who don't pay frees for blocks way off the ball etc etc rather than have a go at players for not escalating actions which are not part of the game.   

and then the maggots go looking for excuses to pay frees and report players the following weeks.

[rjay 24,919]

26 minutes ago, Gawndy the Great said:

Salem....really? He was one of the players that complained to the PA when they did that brutal pre-season along with TMac a number of years ago.

...and he was right.

[dworship 3,342]

I've read through most of the posts on this thread and I think a lot of what is being said regarding Gawn's current demeanor, during games, has relevance. I've seen the same in recent times and it has started to look a lot like "woe is me". That's a very slippery slope as a leader.

I often rail about the lack of umpiring that allows some of the things done to Max go unchecked but Max doesn't have the same luxury, he's the Captain.

Someone and I mean Goody, needs to speak to him and explain that this is the way things are. I know that complaints about this have fallen on deaf ears at the AFL. That isn't going to change but the one thing Max can control is his own reactions to this.

[Gawndy the Great 9,011]

2 minutes ago, rjay said:

...and he was right.

right or wrong isnt the point - he isn't exactly the first person that comes to mind when we talk about grit and tough. 

[leave it to deever 17,511]

5 hours ago, McQueen said:

It’s almost like the team has been instructed not to get involved in any ‘flying the flag’ because it detracts from the next play and players getting to position if they get sucked into that type of stuff. 
But there’s definitely still a time and place for it in terms of getting some mongrel and venom into the team on game day. 
I love Max but I’m starting to see him flop around - almost staging for free kicks rather than holding his ground and looking to hurt the opposition or at least intimidate with more aggression. 

The overall fear factor of the team has sadly and substantially waned this year. 
Time to inject the mongrel back into the mindset of our players. 
 

King has a point. 

Maybe so but it's hard to inject some mongtel when players are being cited every week and penalised like Jvr was for retaliating which cost us a winning goal.

[rjay 24,919]

13 minutes ago, Gawndy the Great said:

right or wrong isnt the point - he isn't exactly the first person that comes to mind when we talk about grit and tough. 

Watch his Grand Final performance...their's your answer.

He might have a baby face but he's certainly not a baby when it matters.

Edited May 22, 2023 by rjay

[Jaded No More 68,909]

4 hours ago, At the break of Gawn said:

For the last part of this segment, Montagna suggested that Melbourne should give the AFL a heads up on this treatment. We should absolutely be doing this because as soon as the umps start paying some free kicks on this, you’ll see opposition teams stop this in a heartbeat.

I’ve been saying this for years. Gawn gets illegally manhandled more than any other player in the game and we just sit back and let it happen as a club. 
Imagine if he played for Geelong. Scott would not stop sooking about it until something was done. 
 

Why is Gawn allowed to be hit high repeatedly but a Melbourne player contesting a spoil ends up having to go to the appeal board just to be allowed to play?