12 hours ago, deejammin' said:

That stat and ladder doesn’t really show anything as it includes both wins and losses. Geelong for example, lost CP badly in their three losses and won it easily in their 5 wins. It means they’re 6th on the ladder of it but it’s a hugely important stat when they’re winning. 

Our CP differential when we win is +31 (+58 before tonight).

When we lose it’s -20.

In fact tonight was the only MFC game this season where we lost CP by over 15 and lost all clearances (total, centre and stoppage) and won, and without Macpherson’s shank we nearly didn’t. 
 

Contest is the heart of our game, we’ve improved to find ways to win if we’re losing just contested possession or one type of clearance and that’s a big part of our improvement these last few years but our losses all have one thing in common. Losing CP. 

I think what I'm trying to say is that we're moving away from this, to our benefit.

Contest is key to any good side. But it was too much the key to us in 2022. This year, we're more resilient structurally, both in offence and defence, if we aren't on top in CPs, and that is a good thing.

3 minutes ago, Ethan Tremblay said:

The Suns gave it everything they had and were spent in the last. We’re just lucky we were a little fitter than them. Definitely one of those games I won’t be watching the replay of. 

I just watched the last 10 minutes, that was enough pain.!!

17 minutes ago, BDA said:

It's almost, as if, supporters are never happy.

Haha, I save my happiness for premierships, nothing less!

36 minutes ago, demon3165 said:

Nope not all, kick outs are the same as the last 2 years out to the left out to the left, so that has not changed so if you think that there is a shift in the game plan how come we got ripped a new butt by the lions and the Bombers, again I don't go with all these stats they are a crock of, well I won't say what I think.

The reason we are kicking better at goals is one thing and one thing only and that is they are running in and kicking straight over the mark it's that simple and that is something that Choco has done this year, gone back to how the greats forwards kicked.

So no nothing much has changed, I bet you were one that thought that we would go back to back flags, well I said after round 9 or 10 that if we played the same way as 21 we would not win it so I will stick to my thoughts how they play, but I am hoping they change the forward setup to get it more open so players like BB and co get more space to run into.

 

Come on, @djr gave you a whole host of areas in which we've changed on last year and you picked one he/she didn't even mention, kick ins?

Your logic that we got beaten by Brisbane and Essendon, ergo our game plan hasn't changed, is so incredibly flawed I don't even know where to begin. What are you trying to argue here, that if our game plan had changed we'd be undefeated?

Your middle paragraph is only partly correct. Our set shots are better, no doubt, but we are taking more shots from the centre and fewer from the pockets because we're not always prioritising long kicks to Brown/McDonald/Gawn in the pocket.

I don't expect it to improve next week, in the players minds they are on holidays until the week of the Powa game.

4 points move on no one will ever remember this game come seasons end.

Hawthorn are absolutely the epitome of the colours of their gurnsey and the players will know this mentally.

 

5 hours ago, Brownie said:

Went to the game last night. Metricon is a great place to watch footy. You can sit on the grass outside or have a kick of the footy and be in your seat within 2 or 3 minutes for the start of the game.

Perfect night for footy. No excuses

Steven May is proppy. My wife and I were watching him closely early on. Even his gait when walking is uneven. He's running at 80 percent now and that lack of closing speed hurts us at the moment.

Petty has to go back to cover this. We all agree.

Our forward line. BBB comes in but it won't fix much. The beauty of a half empty stadium meant we could move to the opposite end to sit in the forward pocket in the last quarter and watch our forward line malfunction. 

This is our biggest problem at the moment. So many forward fifty entries were wasted. WE JUST DON'T LOWER OUR EYES. We can't rely on a young bloke to take screaming pack marks 4 times a game. We can't rely on Tracc trying to bend a dribbler in from the boundary when Grundy is standing front and square 15m out in the last quarter. 

The long bombs from 60 or 70 out have to stop. We are doing it at AFL and VFL level

We were right in front of JVRs spoil in the last. It was a brilliant effort by him just to make the contest. Eyes only for the ball to try and lock the ball in which we're not doing well enough. It will be tragic if he goes for that gut running to make the contest.

Field kicking was off for a lot of the night. We are missing Salem's disposal.

Oliver was still very good. 

We are just not that good without Max.

Jack Viney saved that game for us in the last. The strength he displays in packs is just something else. The Jui Jitsu (I think) training he's doing is helping him keep his feet so well and also stopping him from dangerous tackling in some ways.

Umpiring - evened out after GC were gifted a handful up front earlier in the game.

Well done to Gold Coast. They are no easy beats and were unlucky not to win

I think the coaching staff have some serious work to do with how we are playing. From our defensive setups, our kickouts, our transition into the forward line. 

Another KPF ain't gonna fix it.

We're in a great position considering we're not firing on all cylinders.

Gotta be happy with the win. That's what good teams do.

Very good Brownie

I believe a VG leading forward would change us for the better up forward though.

Players streaming off HB and through the middle under heat...someone leading at them instead of most running away is a must have in the mix.

Players not only need to just lower their vision.... it helps when they see someone coming at them or on a lead to fat side/up the guts.

Is the answer BBB or Macca in the medium to long term.  Maybe not but in the short term they're it.

Obviously it's BBB at the moment.  He should be straight in.

9 minutes ago, dazzledavey36 said:

Disgraceful is a bit of a stretch..

AFL is business now and they made a decision they thought would benefit their list. Getting rid of Grundy enables them to get in Hill, Mitchell, Frampton and McStay. Smart list management if you ask me because they've all contributed greatly so far this year.

Think they're regretting the decision? Absolutely not, they'll be laughing. They've had a make shift ruckman in Billy Frampton for the past few weeks and yet are still churning out wins.

They're in a great spot list management wise after a couple of years of getting it wrong.

I actually thought “disgraceful” was understating it. Your points are all valid, but in showing zero sensitivity and loads of heartlessness in jettisoning a player who was 100% committed and dedicated to their club, Collingwood are in the very least disgraceful. 

2 minutes ago, titan_uranus said:

Come on, @djr gave you a whole host of areas in which we've changed on last year and you picked one he/she didn't even mention, kick ins?

Your logic that we got beaten by Brisbane and Essendon, ergo our game plan hasn't changed, is so incredibly flawed I don't even know where to begin. What are you trying to argue here, that if our game plan had changed we'd be undefeated?

Your middle paragraph is only partly correct. Our set shots are better, no doubt, but we are taking more shots from the centre and fewer from the pockets because we're not always prioritising long kicks to Brown/McDonald/Gawn in the pocket.

Suggest you read again first sentence I wrote about kick ins? so tell me where i was flawed, they opened us up on the outside time and time again so tell me why they were able to do that?

As for goal kicking have you not watched training clips of Choco placing figures on the mark and them kicking it over their heads, watch players like Trac starting to do that instead of running in on an arc which causes the kicking the action to go right to left for a right footer, it's not hard to figure it out.

 

3 hours ago, loges said:

You missed ANB running into open goal and was lucky to even score.

Harmes in the last quarter missed a relatively easy goal from 40 too.

7 minutes ago, WalkingCivilWar said:

I actually thought “disgraceful” was understating it. Your points are all valid, but in showing zero sensitivity and loads of heartlessness in jettisoning a player who was 100% committed and dedicated to their club, Collingwood are in the very least disgraceful. 

Collingwood aren't the first and last club to do this kind of management. We did the exact same thing with Woewodin. 

They acknowledged that they stuffed up their list management by offering years on ridiculous money. They've now fixed that up and are benefiting in a huge way

As I said, footy is a business now. A players heart and emotional attachment to a club is now 2nd. Even Grundy has acknowledged that footy is such a ruthless business and he's now accepted that 

Unfortunately that's just the way the industry is going.

3 minutes ago, WalkingCivilWar said:

I actually thought “disgraceful” was understating it. Your points are all valid, but in showing zero sensitivity and loads of heartlessness in jettisoning a player who was 100% committed and dedicated to their club, Collingwood are in the very least disgraceful. 

Thanks WCW. Well said.

It's not what they did @dazzledavey36 its how they did it. The pies made a list management decision which it totally their right. Grundy has said that he felt totally disrespected by the club in general and McCrae in particular. I'm pretty sure the MFC wouldn't deal with a 2 time best and fairest the way the pies did but not a surprise. They have a track record of treating players shabbily. 

3 hours ago, Lucifers Hero said:

I have a simple explanation for so many of our players being flat:

• 3 interstate games in the first 5. 
• Followed with 3 games in 12 days including another flight. 
• An eye on another interstate game vs Port in 2 weeks. 

That workload takes a big toll on players with niggles and AFL level newbies like:  McVee, JvR, and Chandler.  And maybe our imported players (Hunter and Grundy) wouldn't be used to that workload nor yet conditioned to our standards.

The season is a marathon.  We only need to ride out this tough patch through to the Port game, take the 4 points as often as we can and get ready to consolidate our season with most games thereafter being in Melbourne.

After the workload so far we are in an outstanding position in the top 4 with an excellent %

No need for all the stress in this thread. 

Yeah, but 8 teams travel every 2nd week all year every year. I can understand maybe off short breaks but we had a week between games and our last game was a glorified training run.

28 minutes ago, titan_uranus said:

I think what I'm trying to say is that we're moving away from this, to our benefit.

Contest is key to any good side. But it was too much the key to us in 2022. This year, we're more resilient structurally, both in offence and defence, if we aren't on top in CPs, and that is a good thing.

I think it would be great to move away from relying heavily on the contest and find other strings to our bow. I agree we’re moving the ball better this year, our turnover and transition game is vastly improved and we’re scoring more efficiently and heavily as a result. 
Yet, the three games we’ve lost both CP and clearance significantly are two losses and a five point win, the games where we win CP, clearance or both are all easy four goal + wins.
The evidence so far this season shows we still rely on doing well in the contest, hopefully we either rectify this or find strategies to move away from it, but we haven’t yet. I don’t think it’s a stretch to say we’d be looking to do better than we did last night, especially against the Pies, Geelong, Brisbane and Saints otherwise it’s likely we lose. I also worry that we still set up too aggressively around centre clearance and that teams exit with too little pressure when they win them, but that’s a personal opinion. 

Edited May 7, 20232 yr by deejammin'

It’s a multimillion dollar industry. Why doesn’t the AFL pay someone to transcribe the press conference questions to be shown on screen in the presser video? That would cost $100 per game, or $1000 a week. Hell, make it the club’s responsibility, sell it to a sponsor and put there logo on screen with the question.

I don’t care how its done, it’s just embarrassing that it’s been a problem for 15 years.

 

Edited May 7, 20232 yr by The heart beats true

2 hours ago, binman said:

Losss still possible.

But a win would also have still been possible.

There would have been 14 seconds left on the clock if he had kicked that goal.

6-6-6. Any score wins.

14 seconds is plenty of time to score from a clean centre square break - particularly given only a point is needed and so anyone kicking inside 50 could choose to kick as deep as possible (ie not to 20 metres out to maximise the chance it is not just knocked over for a point by defenders)

 

True, we actually did this against the Suns a few years back didn't we, TMac hitting the post with seconds remaining.

10 minutes ago, demon3165 said:

Nope not all, kick outs are the same as the last 2 years out to the left out to the left, so that has not changed so if you think that there is a shift in the game plan how come we got ripped a new butt by the lions and the Bombers, again I don't go with all these stats they are a crock of, well I won't say what I think.

The reason we are kicking better at goals is one thing and one thing only and that is they are running in and kicking straight over the mark it's that simple and that is something that Choco has done this year, gone back to how the greats forwards kicked.

So no nothing much has changed, I bet you were one that thought that we would go back to back flags, well I said after round 9 or 10 that if we played the same way as 21 we would not win it so I will stick to my thoughts how they play, but I am hoping they change the forward setup to get it more open so players like BB and co get more space to run into.

 

My god our forward setup this year has been a nightmare for opposing backs. We no longer rely on key forwards to kick our goals like last year. We are averaging 10 goal kickers per game, #1 in the comp. There are so many options. Having Max and/or Brodie in the goal square is a dream, envied by the competition. Then we have JVR ,inside 50, providing a contest, Petty playing a defensive role and Fritsch, arguably the best the midsize forward in the game, providing another target.

I haven't even mentioned our small forwards, Kozzie, Chandler, Nibbler and Spargo. So many scoring options. No wonder we are the second highest scoring team this season and you think Choco is the only reason for this and that nothing has changed. Boy, I think you need to look at the modern game through a different lens.

4 hours ago, Brownie said:

Metricon is a great place to watch footy. 

… unless you’re in the front row. The combination of seats so low and a boundary fence higher than usual means you’re like a three-year-old sitting in the driver’s seat trying to look over the dashboard. I must say though, I had a wonderful view of the sky all night. 😁

Also, only one giant screen at that ground. Particularly annoying when you’re seated directly beneath it as we were.

On the plus side, they have a designated smoking area within the parameters of the ground. If I’m gonna hasten my demise I’d rather not have to scan in and out to do so 🙃

 

Just now, djr said:

My god our forward setup this year has been a nightmare for opposing backs. We no longer rely on key forwards to kick our goals like last year. We are averaging 10 goal kickers per game, #1 in the comp. There are so many options. Having Max and/or Brodie in the goal square is a dream, envied by the competition. Then we have JVR ,inside 50, providing a contest, Petty playing a defensive role and Fritsch, arguably the best the midsize forward in the game, providing another target.

I haven't even mentioned our small forwards, Kozzie, Chandler, Nibbler and Spargo. So many scoring options. No wonder we are the second highest scoring team this season and you think Choco is the only reason for this and that nothing has changed. Boy, I think you need to look at the modern game through a different lens.

Look keep looking through the red and blue lenses thats your opinion and that's ok I see it different, you will not change your opinion and I won't change mine end of story.

John Ralph just reported JVR likely to go straight to the tribunal. careless and severe impact he reckons. didn't have eyes for the ball he said. It looked an honest attempt to spoil the ball to me. And he very nearly did make the spoil. 

 

2 minutes ago, BDA said:

John Ralph just reported JVR likely to go straight to the tribunal. careless and severe impact he reckons. didn't have eyes for the ball he said. It looked an honest attempt to spoil the ball to me. And he very nearly did make the spoil. 

 

And in the same segment said Kozzie could also be in trouble, then showed the clip of it, this guy is a [censored] of a reporter both will not be sighted and I will surprised if they were.

4 minutes ago, demon3165 said:

And in the same segment said Kozzie could also be in trouble, then showed the clip of it, this guy is a [censored] of a reporter both will not be sighted and I will surprised if they were.

jvr is looking at weeks i reckon

3 minutes ago, whatwhat say what said:

jvr is looking at weeks i reckon

I could understand it if he was way late to the contest but he wasn't, if he does go what's next broken finger nail you getting a week.

Just now, demon3165 said:

I could understand it if he was way late to the contest but he wasn't, if he does go what's next broken finger nail you getting a week.

he was late to the contest, he hit the body / head not the ball, his eyes weren't on the contest

it's minimum 2 weeks i suspect but more likely to be 3

48 minutes ago, BDA said:

Thanks WCW. Well said.

It's not what they did @dazzledavey36 its how they did it. The pies made a list management decision which it totally their right. Grundy has said that he felt totally disrespected by the club in general and McCrae in particular. I'm pretty sure the MFC wouldn't deal with a 2 time best and fairest the way the pies did but not a surprise. They have a track record of treating players shabbily. 

I'm sorry, can you provide a quote where he states he felt 'totally disrespected?'

1 hour ago, demon3165 said:

Nope not all, kick outs are the same as the last 2 years out to the left out to the left, so that has not changed so if you think that there is a shift in the game plan how come we got ripped a new butt by the lions and the Bombers, again I don't go with all these stats they are a crock of, well I won't say what I think.

You're not Robinson Crusoe with this allusion, but really - have a think about it, it's time it was consigned to the dustbin.