It has become apparent to me our Half Forwards and Half backs are too small and not quick enough. Marking is at a premium, we have too many smaller, slower types! 
 

We get to do it the hard way which is kind of exciting!

 

50 minutes ago, titan_uranus said:

Of all your awful takes this year, arguing our backline isn't actually that good somehow takes the cake

May’s great. When Salem and Lever are playing as elite players it’s an elite backline. This year they’ve both been either absent or ok at best. Petty’s very good but he offers so little in attack despite having the skills and smarts to do so, and whilst he’s good he stills gives us goals most weeks (ie he’s not May).

Hibberd, Hunt, Rivers all good contributors but again, they’re ok defensively and not great on the rebound. 

Defensively as a group it’s been mostly A grade. Offensively C+ at best with no run, no rebound, no corridor attack, no initiative.

For most of this year it’s been a very good (but not great) backline protected by a Ross Lyon style game plan. And despite that we still cough up 91 points from 50 inside 50’s last night.

21 minutes ago, DeeSpencer said:

May’s great. When Salem and Lever are playing as elite players it’s an elite backline. This year they’ve both been either absent or ok at best. Petty’s very good but he offers so little in attack despite having the skills and smarts to do so, and whilst he’s good he stills gives us goals most weeks (ie he’s not May).

Hibberd, Hunt, Rivers all good contributors but again, they’re ok defensively and not great on the rebound. 

Defensively as a group it’s been mostly A grade. Offensively C+ at best with no run, no rebound, no corridor attack, no initiative.

For most of this year it’s been a very good (but not great) backline protected by a Ross Lyon style game plan. And despite that we still cough up 91 points from 50 inside 50’s last night.

Give it a rest…

2 minutes ago, Sir Why You Little said:

Give it a rest…

Strong argument. Thanks for the contribution 

For our game plan to work, everything needs to go right.

Our defensive setup is known by all and sundry, as is the majority of our forays forward (hey let’s attack to the pocket and make it hard for us to score). Obviously this is to setup better defensively, but when teams are happy to counter by switching and then going fast, it really exposes us.

Too late in the season to change it now, hope for the best, but Goodwin and co need to develop different strategies both offensively and defensively for next year.

Throw in that fitness no longer is our advantage and that our midfield whilst great in the contest continues to lack outside spread, pace and skill, a non-existent C-grade forward line outside of Fritsch and Kozzie cameos (Spargo whilst good by foot just does nowhere near enough), and way too many passengers compared to last year. It will take a miracle to go all the way this year (though miracles do occur).

Ill be there again next Friday, as should every Dees fan, but I doubt they will all come. Many only want the easy ride.

Kudos to the Swans though. They were magnificent last night and will take some beating now that they have a home PF (and to be fair, I’d much rather the Swans win the GF ahead of the filth and Cats, if we are not in it).

But onto next week. Carn Dees.

Edited September 3, 20222 yr by Demon Disciple

9 minutes ago, DeeSpencer said:

Strong argument. Thanks for the contribution 

You are the one claiming the backline is average 

10 hours ago, JV7 said:

Not sure why the coaching panel continually persisted with Gawn forward & Jackson in the ruck... Jackson was getting absolutely torched by Hickey & it was evident that when Gawn went in there that we go back on top.

You've got the 6 x All Australian ruckmen & one of the greatest of all time not to mention your captain starting a game at Full Forward in a final, Gawn needed to start in the middle & set the tone (yes first quarter was good but still). 3 QRT time & we were on the ropes & Gawn starts at FF again.... Makes no sense.

It's as if the coaches are waiting for Jackson to replicate one of those 3rd QR GF bursts but he just isn't playing well at the moment or the season for that matter. 

Next week has me nervous, banged up Trac, Brisbane knowing they are our bunnies, their MCG hoodoo, Zorko factor... They will bring the heat, we would need to improve significantly to win next week. 

Relax. Gawny and Jacko versus Fort and McStay. I think we'll be okay

18 hours ago, 1964_2 said:

Dermott Brereton said we are missing the “un-sociable” elements to make us a dynasty team. At the moment, unfortunately he is correct and we are wrong. 
 

He will say anything to bring us down. Has hated us from the day he was born.

Tom Papley and Genital Warts are in the same conversation 

1 hour ago, Sir Why You Little said:

You are the one claiming the backline is average 

I think it's reasonable to question our backline because our drive and transition is extremely one dimensional. We simply don't get drive from them on the MCG for some weird reason. We play the flanks and end up in congestion every single time. Collingwood and Sydney both player it in bursts through the corridor, they play the risky ball and back in their defenders to switch through and double back on the turnover.

We have good defenders but a poor defensive strategy atm because it's not giving us enough quick forward entry. Forward 50 pressure comes from defenders having to quickly react to transition, not from slow kicks in from the wing to an aerial contest then ends in a stoppage.

We have a backline that can defend quite superbly but once we cross centre half back, unless it's a stoppage we just look clueless and haphazard in transition.

Edited September 3, 20222 yr by praha

1 minute ago, praha said:

I think it's reasonable to question our backline because our drive and transition is extremely one dimensional. We simply don't get drive from them on the MCG for some weird reason. We play the flanks and end up in congestion every single time. Collingwood and Sydney both player it in bursts through the corridor, they play the risky ball and back in their defenders to switch through and double back on the turnover.

We have good defenders but a poor defensive strategy atm because it's not giving us enough quick forward entry. Forward 50 pressure comes from defenders having to quickly react to transition, not from slow kicks in from the wing to an aerial contest then ends in a stoppage.

We have a backline that can defend quite superbly but once we cross centre half back, unless it's a stoppage we just look clueless in haphazard in transition.

You are underestimating our opponents. 
We have been given a cu.. of a draw after the bye

Teams want to obliterate us. The Team must learn to handle this as well as go back 2 back. 

3 minutes ago, Sir Why You Little said:

You are underestimating our opponents. 
We have been given a cu.. of a draw after the bye

Teams want to obliterate us. The Team must learn to handle this as well as go back 2 back. 

I'm not at all. I actually say i don't want to take anything away from them because they've been awesome when they play us. I'm merely highlighting a theme that isn't just 1 or 2 games. 

1 minute ago, praha said:

I'm not at all. I actually say i don't want to take anything away from them because they've been awesome when they play us. I'm merely highlighting a theme that isn't just 1 or 2 games. 

TMac going down in Round 10 was huge. 
we have been a man down ever since 

It’s been a slogfest

11 minutes ago, Sir Why You Little said:

TMac going down in Round 10 was huge. 
we have been a man down ever since 

It’s been a slogfest

True. Herculean if we even make the Prelim imo.

Last season, we could rely on Salem to not only beat his opponent, with great one-on-one defence, but launch attacks through the corridor with pin point passing. 

I'm worried he is avoiding contact and had little confidence in his legs. His setting up from defence was worth three of four extra goals a game last season.

We've lost that drive off half back.

Then there's Lever, Gawn/Jackson, an injured Tracc and ANB with no confidence.

We'll need others to step up big time on Friday.

 

 

32 minutes ago, dee-tox said:

Last season, we could rely on Salem to not only beat his opponent, with great one-on-one defence, but launch attacks through the corridor with pin point passing. 

I'm worried he is avoiding contact and had little confidence in his legs. His setting up from defence was worth three of four extra goals a game last season.

We've lost that drive off half back.

Then there's Lever, Gawn/Jackson, an injured Tracc and ANB with no confidence.

We'll need others to step up big time on Friday.

Salem was tagged on Friday night by Ryan Clarke. 

Longmire did his homework on our playmakers and concocted a plan to minimise their impact.  Often he used his less lights in these roles freeing his playmakers.

Another example McInerney on Langdon and neither had a big impact, albeit Langdon was involved in a bit of the play.

21 hours ago, kev martin said:

Agree, they have trouble at home, not that we will be out next week. 

To win the big one, we have to play the G better. That is why playing on it could give us the learnings needed to develop a system and confidence to do it well.

We aren't far off and an extra game out there may be what we need. They will now be in the rhythm of sleeping in their own beds and having a routine without travel.

If anything the travel must be a bonding exercise that they have to create when at home. 

@kev martin Kev, I agree - the idea that the G is somehow an advantage for us is apocryphal: it is also the home ground for Collingwood and Richmond, but the advantage is greater for them, due to the size and noise of their supporter base. Unfortunately, at most  Melbourne games, our crowd may outnumber the opposition, but is not loud enough (in my opinion) to give us that significant advantage. 
 

This might be going slightly off-topic, but I believe that a home base is crucial now, to galvanising our support that has built up so well these past couple of years. Some may say it’s a question of social demographics, but I see all the fences still painted from last year, the banners still up on the houses and I believe the passion is there, it just needs to be harnessed and concentrated.

I drove past Punt Rd oval yesterday, taking my daughter to her netball GF (they got done 12-9, bloody umpiring!) and saw the crowds going in for the Richmond AFLW game, with merch stands etc and it really struck me for the first time how disadvantaged we are, as a club, not having a base to congregate at. In fact, it could be a massive reason as to why the club has been so starved of success over the years. 
 

In order for the G to be anything more than an historical significance for the MFC, our supporters need to own it, to create a hostile environment like Richmond and Collingwood. That’s hard to do, when you don’t have a place to congregate and call your own.

On 9/3/2022 at 12:22 AM, John Crow Batty said:

He’s got to move and lead into space or seperate from our other forwards. It’s so predictable to where he positions himself and defenders are always ready. 

This is the crux of effectiveness for Max, when up forward. Space and movement. He can be a goalkicker when he applies more care with his kicking, he can draw opposition players, he can free up the other Demon forwards, relative to the number of opposition defenders who decide on the spur of the moment that big Maxie is the greatest threat. If he creates space, imagine the effectiveness of the other forwards also having opportunities to create uncongested space - probably in multiple directions - and this would suit Fritta, BBB, Melksham, Kozzie and the very important Spargo playing very deep (forward pocket). Hell, there could also be terrific opportunities for ANB coming down and the extremely dangerous and pacey Bedford.

11 hours ago, Sir Why You Little said:

TMac going down in Round 10 was huge. 
we have been a man down ever since 

It’s been a slogfest

Often gets the best defenders so bbb has it easier. 

We lost a few after Tmac went down so yea.

10 minutes ago, 3183 Dee said:

@kev martin Kev, I agree - the idea that the G is somehow an advantage for us is apocryphal: it is also the home ground for Collingwood and Richmond, but the advantage is greater for them, due to the size and noise of their supporter base. Unfortunately, at most  Melbourne games, our crowd may outnumber the opposition, but is not loud enough (in my opinion) to give us that significant advantage. 
 

This might be going slightly off-topic, but I believe that a home base is crucial now, to galvanising our support that has built up so well these past couple of years. Some may say it’s a question of social demographics, but I see all the fences still painted from last year, the banners still up on the houses and I believe the passion is there, it just needs to be harnessed and concentrated.

I drove past Punt Rd oval yesterday, taking my daughter to her netball GF (they got done 12-9, bloody umpiring!) and saw the crowds going in for the Richmond AFLW game, with merch stands etc and it really struck me for the first time how disadvantaged we are, as a club, not having a base to congregate at. In fact, it could be a massive reason as to why the club has been so starved of success over the years. 
 

In order for the G to be anything more than an historical significance for the MFC, our supporters need to own it, to create a hostile environment like Richmond and Collingwood. That’s hard to do, when you don’t have a place to congregate and call your own.

Plus interstate teams play there more than vic clubs play at other interstate grounds.

Watched the game on TV.....it seemed to have a lot of swans fans.

People forget there are still an inordinate ammount of people in VIc that still  follow swans/ sth Melbourne.

 

Edited September 3, 20222 yr by leave it to deever

We will beat Brisbane...I'm sure of it.

It's also very possible we could roll Cats in a prelim given our history with them.

But with Tracc injured and no 2nd tall it's a big call re the cats.

We need to swap Melksham with a tall...maybe Tomlinson or Tmac with a plate in his foot. What do we have to lose?

Bowie for Anb maybe who has lost a lot of form.  That's all the changes I'd make.

Bbb is tall but he's not really a big man like Tmac, Franklin or May ie strength.

Swans loss was hard to take .

They are a good side but it's just we had at least half a dozen players who really didn't turn up. Ok sometimes you have a bad game. Of course it happens. But what was disappointing the most is you can have a bad game but still try by pressure acts and at least still tackle. For many their tackle  counts revealed they didn't even try. And that's what I don't get. As if they knew they were having a bad night and rather than do what they can....its as if they just threw in the towel.

I won't name names but anyone can check the stat sheets.

We went downhill a while ago but beating Carlton and Brisbane, I thought we had turned it around.

At least we won't go out in straight sets.

Edited September 3, 20222 yr by leave it to deever

Watching the other finals, I admired - and am extremely envious - of how open their forward lines were and how forwards were often leading into open paddocks of space. Our forward line is like a mosh pit and no one leads or has space to lead. When you’ve only got one key forward, surely a mosh pit is not a winning plan. 

11 minutes ago, Neil Crompton said:

Watching the other finals, I admired - and am extremely envious - of how open their forward lines were and how forwards were often leading into open paddocks of space. Our forward line is like a mosh pit and no one leads or has space to lead. When you’ve only got one key forward, surely a mosh pit is not a winning plan. 

Our forward linexwas crowded also because of the fact we used to be able to get a lot of run and carry from or backline.

Players would run and spread and move the moment it was in the hands of the player kicking out.

Didn't happen against the Swans.

 

Regarding the backline . . . and to some unremarkable salient points made by some posters that I am now going to remark upon. 

I would say they (and 'they' are named later on - I have no fear) are all pretty one-dimensional back there. And the comp is full of OD players. Just in my era alone:

1. Hudson simply chat himself when shooting for his 151st goal - no good under pressure at all.
2. Robbie Flower the same. Often missed running goals in the wet from 55 metres out after taking the ball at half back and being bashed by Matthews for his trouble. Barassi had to permanently move him to half back to save his career.
3. Carey was cr&p as a backman . . . Pagan had to move him forward where he carved out a barely passable career.
4. Voss, Black, Lappin and White were no good in the granny of 2004 - lost the plot in the fourth quarter - wonder any of them played another game quite frankly.
5. And don't get me started on Dusty . . . slack bast*#d only plays well in grannies. 

So yeah - unfortunate Maysie, Jake the Snake, Tommy Petty, Pig Hibbo and Christian Salem need to take a good long hard look at themselves this week. The future of the club depends on it.

Edited September 3, 20222 yr by Queanbeyan Demon
Typo