9 hours ago, Demondan75 said:

Great post 1964_2, absolutely spot-on👍

It certainly felt in 2021 - that Max would drift back to intercept in the D50/ half back line - far more frequently than he did this year?

Not sure if others saw it the same way.

On 9/28/2022 at 9:38 AM, Lord Nev said:

Freo do the deal for Port's pick 8 then...

Freo get - Jackson

Collingwood get - Freo future first

Dees get - Pick 8, Grundy

Reckon that's a realistic scenario.

Lord Nev, this scenario works well for us if we can get at least 3 - 4 years of quality service from Grundy (should do given he's 28 and has been quite durable over his career) and can turn pick 8 into a quality key position forward / defender that can have an impact in their 2nd or 3rd season. I include defender as this could free up Petty to play forward.

1 hour ago, Grouse said:

So considering pies are asking for a first round pick, we will have to split our Jackson first round pick to get Grundy. I for the life of me can't see any good in going after Grundy. It weakens our draft hand and ties us to an expensive 29yo on a long contract. An utterly bizarre pick up unless goodwin thinks if we continue to bomb down the line to gawn resting forward, it will be more effective that when we did that this year with Jackson rucking. It doesn't work and won't work again. 

We won’t give them anything from the Jackson deal. Grundy deal will be done way before Jackson’s as pies can’t wait until the last day of trade window as they have other deals to do and need Grundys done first. 
Won’t be a first rounder I don’t think either, more likely 32 & 41 or 32 & compo we get for Hunt

53 minutes ago, chookrat said:

Lord Nev, this scenario works well for us if we can get at least 3 - 4 years of quality service from Grundy (should do given he's 28 and has been quite durable over his career) and can turn pick 8 into a quality key position forward / defender that can have an impact in their 2nd or 3rd season. I include defender as this could free up Petty to play forward.

Nah. It doesn't work well for us. 

You can't salary dump a player and expect a first round pick in exchange. The media have pushed that narrative and a second round pick is more than enough. 

Didn't Cal Twomey report recently that it'll be a second round pick for Grundy?

17 hours ago, Axis of Bob said:

100%

If the Dees make you a pitch and you think it would be a great place to play your footy, we have a reputation among players and managers that we will make that deal happen quickly and painlessly. It makes it easy to decide to switch and easy to buy in to a club that demonstrates that it will act in your best interests. 

I could not have put it better A of B.

1 minute ago, JimmyGadson said:

Nah. It doesn't work well for us. 

You can't salary dump a player and expect a first round pick in exchange. The media have pushed that narrative and a second round pick is more than enough. 

Salary dump or not, Grundy is worth an early second round pick (or a late first with a second in return) and $800k per season for the next 4 years. The salary dump is what has presented the opportunity for us to try to bring Grundy in and he has attracted interest from more than one club. We should be prepared to pay what is fair taking into account what he is worth to us, how much Collingwood want to trade him on, and what he could earn elsewhere.

1 hour ago, chookrat said:

Lord Nev, this scenario works well for us if we can get at least 3 - 4 years of quality service from Grundy (should do given he's 28 and has been quite durable over his career) and can turn pick 8 into a quality key position forward / defender that can have an impact in their 2nd or 3rd season. I include defender as this could free up Petty to play forward.

There's some classic red and blue goggles going on in Demonland as usual hey? Now that Jackson has requested a trade apparently his worth has gone down, and at the same time people are expecting some kind of mega bargain for Grundy. It's just not how the Dees operate in the trade period - we get things done with not much fuss.

We gave up pick 6 for May (and KK), nearly 27 at the time, never All-Australian. Granted it's a different situation given the contract, but the point is we had a specified target and got it done. Grundy is a 28 year old 2x AA, 2x Copeland winner, and with Freo's first rounder next year likely to be somewhere around 13-15 it's not a ridiculous trade, (with some later pick swaps probably in the mix) even more so when you consider Collingwood will be paying a third of his wage.

There seems to be a perception on Demonland that we're doing this deal just for the sake of it due to the salary dump and expecting a bargain, but IMO it seems obvious this is a targeted trade like we usually do when we address a need.

Edited September 30, 20222 yr by Lord Nev

59 minutes ago, Colm said:

We won’t give them anything from the Jackson deal. Grundy deal will be done way before Jackson’s as pies can’t wait until the last day of trade window as they have other deals to do and need Grundys done first. 
Won’t be a first rounder I don’t think either, more likely 32 & 41 or 32 & compo we get for Hunt

This is spot on, I'm expecting the Jackson deal to go down on the last day as we wait for other trades to happen for freo to get the picks required and pies will need to move Grundy before making other deals. I'm actually expecting the Grundy deal to happen pretty early, they will take what they can get and move on. 

Would 32 and a future second get it done, with maybe a future 3rd coming back? They're both likely to be end of 2nd round picks

can somebody please tell me why we are chasing Grundy?

Is Max not able to ruck next year full time?

I'm not a fan and think we can do more with the 600 or so grand we need to pay over 5 years making Grundy 34 and Max 35plus

25 minutes ago, Lord Nev said:

There seems to be a perception on Demonland that we're doing this deal just for the sake of it due to the salary dump and expecting a bargain, but IMO it seems obvious this is a targeted trade like we usually do when we address a need.

Grundy has openly stated that he wanted to stay at Collingwood.

They want him gone so they don't get to decide whether it's a first rounder unless they're paying a ridiculous amount of his salary which they would rather not do because they want him off their books! 

They can't have it both ways. And for whatever reason, you think they can. 

The dogs only gave up pick 14 for Treloar because they needed points to cover for bids on Jamarra. 

6 minutes ago, JimmyGadson said:

Grundy has openly stated that he wanted to stay at Collingwood.

They want him gone so they don't get to decide whether it's a first rounder unless they're paying a ridiculous amount of his salary which they would rather not do because they want him off their books! 

They can't have it both ways. And for whatever reason, you think they can. 

The dogs only gave up pick 14 for Treloar because they needed points to cover for bids on Jamarra. 

Can you quote where he said that mate? I've heard media reports speculating but not seen a comment from him.

Last thing I saw was Sam Edmund saying:

With this move a salary dump from Collingwood’s perspective, Edmund believes Grundy is dissatisfied with the club, much like Adam Treloar who wanted to remain a Magpie but was traded to the Bulldogs at the end of the 2020 season.

“If Adam Treloar was 10 out of 10 on the anger scale with his departure, this isn’t that far behind from my understanding,” Edmund said.

Grundy not “far behind” Treloar-like dissatisfaction with Collingwood trade

Also, in terms of "have it both ways", I think you need to balance out the fact they'll be paying a third of his salary, different story if we were to pay Grundy's whole wage, but that's not the deal and people seem to be forgetting that.

Edited October 1, 20222 yr by Lord Nev

3 minutes ago, Lord Nev said:

Can you quote where he said that mate? I've heard media reports speculating but not seen a comment from him.

Last thing I saw was Sam Edmund saying:

With this move a salary dump from Collingwood’s perspective, Edmund believes Grundy is dissatisfied with the club, much like Adam Treloar who wanted to remain a Magpie but was traded to the Bulldogs at the end of the 2020 season.

“If Adam Treloar was 10 out of 10 on the anger scale with his departure, this isn’t that far behind from my understanding,” Edmund said.

Grundy not “far behind” Treloar-like dissatisfaction with Collingwood trade

They were/are both angry and dissatisfied because they were asked to leave.

Both wanted to stay, take that to the bank.

They were happy with their contracts and team mates.

Edited October 1, 20222 yr by Redleg

3 minutes ago, Lord Nev said:

Can you quote where he said that mate? I've heard media reports speculating but not seen a comment from him.

Last thing I saw was Sam Edmund saying:

With this move a salary dump from Collingwood’s perspective, Edmund believes Grundy is dissatisfied with the club, much like Adam Treloar who wanted to remain a Magpie but was traded to the Bulldogs at the end of the 2020 season.

“If Adam Treloar was 10 out of 10 on the anger scale with his departure, this isn’t that far behind from my understanding,” Edmund said.

Grundy not “far behind” Treloar-like dissatisfaction with Collingwood trade

Also, in terms of "have it both ways", I think you need to balance out the fact they'll be paying a third of his salary, different story if we were to pay Grundy's whole wage, but that's not the deal and people seem to be forgetting that.

It is still 600 grand !

1 minute ago, Redleg said:

They were/are both angry and dissatisfied because they were asked to leave.

Both wanted to stay, take that to the bank.

Quite possibly, sure, but Jimmy was saying Grundy "openly stated" this, but I've not seen any comment from him at all about the situation. Just keen to see if I missed it.

1 minute ago, Kent said:

It is still 600 grand !

Pretty cheap for a 2x AA, 2x BnF ruck I would have thought tbh.

How much do you reckon we would have been paying Jackson next year?

Just now, Lord Nev said:

Quite possibly, sure, but Jimmy was saying Grundy "openly stated" this, but I've not seen any comment from him at all about the situation. Just keen to see if I missed it.

I won’t swear to it, but I thought I saw a quote somewhere from Grundy saying he wanted to stay at Pies. Certainly several media quotes from the “experts “ have said this as well.

2 minutes ago, Redleg said:

I won’t swear to it, but I thought I saw a quote somewhere from Grundy saying he wanted to stay at Pies. Certainly several media quotes from the “experts “ have said this as well.

They've also said he's furious at the club, which seems at odds with wanting to stay there. Perhaps he originally wanted to stay but after this situation he wants out? Would make sense yeah?

11 minutes ago, Lord Nev said:

They've also said he's furious at the club, which seems at odds with wanting to stay there. Perhaps he originally wanted to stay but after this situation he wants out? Would make sense yeah?

Yes that makes sense. He signs a 7 year deal because they love him and really want and need him. 2 years later after doing the same to a team mate, they tell him he can take a large pay cut, or is free to look around, as they need to adjust their salary cap. He now feels he has been lied to and gets angry with them. He sees the writing on the wall and meets the Dees and is impressed. He tells the Pies I am disappointed with you, but will leave, but go only to the Dees, if you can do a deal with them and I get my full contract pay, otherwise I stay.

That is how I see the scenario playing out.

Edited October 1, 20222 yr by Redleg

Just now, Redleg said:

Yes that makes sense. He signs a 7 year deal because they love him and really want and need him. 2 years later after doing the same to a team mate, they tell him he can take a large pay cut, or is free to look around, as they need to adjust their salary cap. He now feels he has been lied to and gets angry with them. He sees the writing on the wall and meets the Dees and is impressed. He tells the Pies I am disappointed with you, but will leave, but go only to the Dees, if you can do a deal with them and I get my full contract pay.

That is how I see the scenario playing out.

Yeah, reckon you've nailed it, especially after Pendlebury's comments along the lines of 'he has a future with us if he wants it', which IMO was an incredibly poor comment.

1 minute ago, Lord Nev said:

Yeah, reckon you've nailed it, especially after Pendlebury's comments along the lines of 'he has a future with us if he wants it', which IMO was an incredibly poor comment.

Agree, what Pendles obviously meant was, if he reduces his contract by about 50%.

I remember Grundy saying at the time he was thrilled to be a Pie for life after knocking back other clubs offers.

Edited October 1, 20222 yr by Redleg

After reading Nev and Redleg's speculations above, it seems that the employer (Colonwood) has said to its employee , "Yes you have a contract but we are going to change the conditions by cutting your pay.  You can accept this or [censored] off"!

On the other side, in recent years we have had contracted players telling their club they want out ...... and getting their way.

Which leads to my question. Are player/club contacts really worth anything nowadays?

4 minutes ago, Bitter but optimistic said:

After reading Nev and Redleg's speculations above, it seems that the employer (Colonwood) has said to its employee , "Yes you have a contract but we are going to change the conditions by cutting your pay.  You can accept this or [censored] off"!

On the other side, in recent years we have had contracted players telling their club they want out ...... and getting their way.

Which leads to my question. Are player/club contacts really worth anything nowadays?

I have mixed feelings about it all. A contract should be a contract, but I think we've seen both players and clubs try to break them to move on, and IMO the players still have the bigger share of power in player movement - literally declaring a specific club they must be traded to.

Clubs like Collingwood will surely have a poor reputation now in terms of handling player contracts, whereas the Dees seem to be no fuss and genuinely try to do the best thing - The TMac and ANB examples stand out to me, plus it feels like the way they've handled Tomlinson this year is similar to that. Then there's the class with which the club has handled the Jackson situation. Combine that with our apparently Oscar worthy PowerPoints and we do seem to genuinely be a 'destination club' in a manner of speaking.

Its a salary dump. If GCS can give up a good player and pick 7 to gain cap space then we are more than generous giving a second rounder to free up approx $600k from their books in exchange for Grundy.

Yes, yes, I know its not exactly apples with apples, but neither is comparing this to the May trade. Bowes isn't 2 x AA, but Grundy is yet to prove himself after some very serious injuries. Iirc the May trade wasnt reported as a salary dump, they wanted him to stay

Time for the club to get a favourable deal done if Collingwood want this settled early, especially since the AFL have openly approved dumping. Otherwise it could easily drag on until the last day holding up a raft of deals they want to do. He could even end up staying at the Pies, that would [censored] them over sweetly!

Edited October 1, 20222 yr by Stiff Arm