1 hour ago, The Jackson FIX said:

There is some negative recency bias on Grundy -  largely because he has been absent in a season where Collingwood turned things around. 

I’m genuinely not sure whether 50% forward line time is feasible though… never kicked more than 12 in a season and even though that may be because he hasn’t spent time there I’m sure they experimented with this a bit with Cox in the side.

I doubt it'll be a 50-50 split. He'll ruck more than Max.

Hits outs to advantage 2018-2021. You could argue that Grundy (who is the better tap ruckman of the two in my view) with Oliver, Trac, Viney underneath will be even more effective. You could also argue the combined of both will be significantly more impactful being they should be fresher when in there and at points against secondary rucks moreso than now. Hit outs to advantage are gold from a scores and territory viewpoint. 

2018 1st Gawn (400) 2nd Grundy (333) 3rd Goldstein (242)

2019 1st Grundy (294), 2nd Gawn (285) 3rd Witts (260)

2020 1st Grundy (166), 2nd Gawn (149) 3rd Naitanui (145)

2021 1st Natanui (270), 2nd Gawn (255) 4th Grundy (214) 

Edited September 22, 20222 yr by Lil_red_fire_engine

Next season we hopefully have Gawn with out his ankle injury & the ongoing affects & also his groins were shot so basically he had trouble running & jumping. I’ve also had conversations with Collingwood supporters (not the nuffies) & they def don’t want to lose Grundy.  As one said “you build clubs around players like Gawn & Grundy ..not De Goey’s”.

3 hours ago, 58er said:

Well history proves you are wrong !!

in what regard?

1 hour ago, Lil_red_fire_engine said:

Hits outs to advantage 2018-2021. You could argue that Grundy (who is the better tap ruckman of the two in my view) with Oliver, Trac, Viney underneath will be even more effective. You could also argue the combined of both will be significantly more impactful being they should be fresher when in there and at points against secondary rucks moreso than now. Hit outs to advantage are gold from a scores and territory viewpoint. 

2018 1st Gawn (400) 2nd Grundy (333) 3rd Goldstein (242)

2019 1st Grundy (294), 2nd Gawn (285) 3rd Witts (260)

2020 1st Grundy (166), 2nd Gawn (149) 3rd Naitanui (145)

2021 1st Natanui (270), 2nd Gawn (255) 4th Grundy (214) 

Really? West Coast finished 9th and Collingwood 17th. 

And Grundy had elite midfielders at Collingwood in Pendlebury, Adams, Treloar and Sidebottom from 2018-2020.

Edited September 23, 20222 yr by mo64

IMO Max's ruck work is very predictable and hit and miss. Where he's elite is around the ground. 

I agree with @Lil_red_fire_engine vis a vis Grundy being the better tap ruckman. 

So with Grundy we get elite tap work and with Max we get elite around the ground marking.

As I've said, it's a dangerous combination. 

22 minutes ago, mo64 said:

Really? West Coast finished 9th and Collingwood 17th. 

And Grundy had elite midfielders at Collingwood in Pendlebury, Adams, Treloar and Sidebottom from 2018-2020.

We have 2 of the best 5 mids in the comp based on most expert assessments and they are coming in t their prime. Pendlebury would be the only one of those 5 considered in that bracket at any point in his career. 

You do understand that stoppage and territory is key to how we play our best footy yeah? 

21 minutes ago, A F said:

IMO Max's ruck work is very predictable and hit and miss. Where he's elite is around the ground. 

I agree with @Lil_red_fire_engine vis a vis Grundy being the better tap ruckman. 

So with Grundy we get elite tap work and with Max we get elite around the ground marking.

As I've said, it's a dangerous combination. 

Grundy is also excellent at containing the opposition if the clearance is not won. His tackle numbers are elite 

1 hour ago, A F said:

IMO Max's ruck work is very predictable and hit and miss. Where he's elite is around the ground. 

I agree with @Lil_red_fire_engine vis a vis Grundy being the better tap ruckman. 

So with Grundy we get elite tap work and with Max we get elite around the ground marking.

As I've said, it's a dangerous combination. 

There’s no elite tap work with Grundy. He’s as predictable as Max. Although with fresher legs for centre bounces. Just an example but the ‘19 semi final they lost to GWS was the most mind numbing display of tap work I’ve ever seen, as Mumford continually bodied Grundy in to the same hit outs over and over again.

Getting Gawn out of centre bounces will be a positive, if he doesn’t pluck it from the ruck or slot it down a midfielders throat Max becomes a liability in there. Otherwise there’s not much from the ruck contests I’m actually excited about. The ruck is the ruck, unless you’re Nic Nat or terrible it doesn’t matter. 

4 hours ago, A F said:

IMO Max's ruck work is very predictable and hit and miss. Where he's elite is around the ground. 

I agree with @Lil_red_fire_engine vis a vis Grundy being the better tap ruckman. 

So with Grundy we get elite tap work and with Max we get elite around the ground marking.

As I've said, it's a dangerous combination. 

Youv'e convinced me.

Goody said on 360 this week, they've thought about it a lot and think they can make it work.

Max is superb around the ground. You could be onto something, and he's a super athlete tank-wise.

maybe we are inventing something unseen for 2023  rather than slavishly following what the next Premiers will be doing on Saturday.

Interesting for sure.

I'd have thought Max's tap work was some of the most versatile and damaging going round. His awareness if where mids are, tap forward, side, even back over his shoulder. I wouldn't say Grundy eclipses him in the area.

Grundy gets him on skill and kicking but as tap ruckmen it's pretty close.

Gearing up to learn to like Grundy. To be honest, it won’t be that hard to do. But please, never ever do I want Ginnivan’s name associated with us. 

Ps- I’m not trying to start a new rumour or anything like that, he just really irks me, that all.

The Herald Sun reckons we'll agree to pay 'fair value' for Grundy (one of the 1st rounders received for Jackson)

Love it or hate it, get use to it because it’s happening.

I think Jason Taylor and Goodwin has the runs on the board and delivered us a flag. So if they think Grundy is worth the punt and will work, then whose to argue!.

Edited September 23, 20222 yr by raikkonen_64

This is all provided Grundy doesn't want to go to West Coast.

1 hour ago, willmoy said:

This is all provided Grundy doesn't want to go to West Coast.

He said he wants to stay in Vic

12 hours ago, IvanBartul13 said:

in what regard?

About the top tier of players to no 5 and 6 picks running out.

You are entitled to your view but I don't agree and believe history is not that clear cut. 

6 hours ago, adonski said:

The Herald Sun reckons we'll agree to pay 'fair value' for Grundy (one of the 1st rounders received for Jackson)

People at our club won't be doing their job if that happens 

Edited September 23, 20222 yr by layzie

57 minutes ago, layzie said:

People at our club won't be doing their job if that happens 

Hopefully, we get 2 firsts, and an early second from Freo. Maybe Freo get one of Norths seconds. We could then give that early second to the Pies. That would be my hope. But as I’ve said before, I heard ages ago from someone close to the Pies that it will be a first. Hoping they’re wrong though

8 hours ago, adonski said:

The Herald Sun reckons we'll agree to pay 'fair value' for Grundy (one of the 1st rounders received for Jackson)

what we give up will be entirely predicated on how much the filth are paying over the next five seasons

3 hours ago, 58er said:

About the top tier of players to no 5 and 6 picks running out.

You are entitled to your view but I don't agree and believe history is not that clear cut. 

I think that's one of the most breathlessly obtuse things I've read.  Was it deliberate?

  My comment was in relation to how Pick 7 would be valued as a trade asset, I was not suggesting good players won't be available at that spot or that players taken after 5 can't or won't be better than those taken above them.

Either way, It would be helpful if you could put forward your top tier of players.

Most have Ashcroft, Wardlaw, Cadman, Tsatas and Sheezel as a band of players and potential number one pick candidates.  I add Josh Weddle to that group, many stop at 5.   Who are your top tier? Or did you misinterpret the premise of my comment?  

I'm not saying the supply of quality players ends at 5 or 6, but that clubs would value pick 5 closer to pick 3, than they would pick 7 to pick 5, as an example.

 

Edited September 23, 20222 yr by IvanBartul13

14 hours ago, adonski said:

The Herald Sun reckons we'll agree to pay 'fair value' for Grundy (one of the 1st rounders received for Jackson)

I will be FURIOUS if the club parts with a first rounder for Grundy. Its a salary Dump by the Filth, take a third or fourth rounder or get stuffed!

6 hours ago, IvanBartul13 said:

I think that's one of the most breathlessly obtuse things I've read.  Was it deliberate?

  My comment was in relation to how Pick 7 would be valued as a trade asset, I was not suggesting good players won't be available at that spot or that players taken after 5 can't or won't be better than those taken above them.

Either way, It would be helpful if you could put forward your top tier of players.

Most have Ashcroft, Wardlaw, Cadman, Tsatas and Sheezel as a band of players and potential number one pick candidates.  I add Josh Weddle to that group, many stop at 5.   Who are your top tier? Or did you misinterpret the premise of my comment?  

I'm not saying the supply of quality players ends at 5 or 6, but that clubs would value pick 5 closer to pick 3, than they would pick 7 to pick 5, as an example.

 

What players gradings  ( draft pick no's) are are what the Clubs and gurus think.

In reality I am saying over a period of time thats not what the order plays out. 
Down  the track judgements change due to performance.

I don't know the current draftees well enough to grade them sorry.

12 hours ago, raikkonen_64 said:

Love it or hate it, get use to it because it’s happening.

I think Jason Taylor and Goodwin has the runs on the board and delivered us a flag. So if they think Grundy is worth the punt and will work, then whose to argue!.

Nah, the Demonland brains trust has all the relevant information at hand, so they'll know best.

5 minutes ago, A F said:

Nah, the Demonland brains trust has all the relevant information at hand, so they'll know best.

I take it that you'll refrain from making negative comments about any trades, re-signings or delistings we make. The club always gets it right so we're not entitled to have a discussion about it's merit.