On 05/09/2023 at 09:14, DubDee said:

Almost every time Howe takes a hanger (in fairness he is best natural leap and mark I have ever seen), he gives the ball away

his awareness and kicking are far from elite which stops him from being considered an A grader

It's actually amazing how many players stuff up after a hanger,  must be all the energy pumping through them.  I was only thinking the other day id love to see a stat on plays after a hanger! that's a lot of footage to go through though. 

  On 05/09/2023 at 21:22, Kent said:

If Cox is playing I think we need to consider Grundy

I'm thinking that this was a plan all the time and Goodwin has been playing mind games

Who ever plays someone needs to smash Cox early He is a thug who's primary role is to injure opposition players

Shut him down Do not allow him to push Max around

I actually think we don't play Grundy,  Gawn will dominate Cox all over the ground.  bit of a tougher tap match up but he is so average as a footballer.  

  On 05/09/2023 at 21:22, Kent said:

If Cox is playing I think we need to consider Grundy

I'm thinking that this was a plan all the time and Goodwin has been playing mind games

Who ever plays someone needs to smash Cox early He is a thug who's primary role is to injure opposition players

Shut him down Do not allow him to push Max around

Max has been successfully, and unfairly targetted in the past and its been effective.   Hinkley implemented using 2 rucks  several years ago.   If a pies ruck is sub, then surely Mcrae's plan must be to bring on fresh legs against max say late in 3rd 1/4.

I think Max can easily cope fitness wise against 2 second raters, but its the buffetting I fear.

In Goody I trust though.

I have said it before on here that we won't be paying any of Grundy's contract but here is Cal Twomey on SEN yesterday:

“The other reality is is that he’s contracted as a Demon so a trade has to be made that satisfies them as well.

“Melbourne doesn’t have to pay a dollar if he goes, there’s no way this is going to be a three-club arrangement paying for Grundy if he does leave.

“Grundy has an agreement with Collingwood and an agreement with Melbourne at the amount. Melbourne and Collingwood don’t have an agreement.

“If he were to leave, the club that is taking him on would be taking on all that’s left from his Melbourne salary.”

Just so people are informed, we basically will have 2.6m free in our salary cap if we trade him.  🤑

Also makes the trade easier to do, a club is getting a top 5 ruck for $650k a year.  It's a bargain and you can see why we took a chance on it. 

  On 05/09/2023 at 21:50, Demon17 said:

Max has been successfully, and unfairly targetted in the past and its been effective.   Hinkley implemented using 2 rucks  several years ago.   If a pies ruck is sub, then surely Mcrae's plan must be to bring on fresh legs against max say late in 3rd 1/4.

I think Max can easily cope fitness wise against 2 second raters, but its the buffetting I fear.

In Goody I trust though.

Regardless of whether the Pies play one ruck and one as sub or both start the game, Gawn will likely share the ruck duties with JVR more in the first 3 quarters so he can conserve energy for the last quarter to go it alone. 
Fitness and endurance is not Gawn’s issue. He is just about the fittest endurance ruckman going around. Cox will be spent by the last quarter from trying so hard to start fights. 

Edited September 5, 20231 yr by Jaded No More

  On 05/09/2023 at 22:01, Jaded No More said:

Regardless of whether the Pies play one ruck and one as sub or both start the game, Gawn will likely share the ruck duties with JVR more in the first 3 quarters so he can conserve energy for the last quarter to go it alone. 
Fitness and endurance is not Gawn’s issue. He is just about the fittest endurance ruckman going around. Cox will be spent by the last quarter from trying so hard to start fights. 

If Tmac is on the Ground I would expect him to take any ruck contests releasing Roo as a receiver..  imho...a better use of abilities 

  On 05/09/2023 at 22:07, beelzebub said:

If Tmac is on the Ground I would expect him to take any ruck contests releasing Roo as a receiver..  imho...a better use of abilities 

Tmac won’t take the ruck work in the middle or around the ground. He will likely help out with ruck work inside 50. 

  On 05/09/2023 at 22:11, Jaded No More said:

Tmac won’t take the ruck work in the middle or around the ground. He will likely help out with ruck work inside 50. 

Sorry.. more precisely in the forward arc..  

Has Howe said anything good today?

  On 05/09/2023 at 22:49, layzie said:

Has Howe said anything good today?

Or any day?

We need Grundy tomorrow night.  On King's Birthday he carved Collingwood up - Gawn/Grundy combo had 42 hitouts (Grundy 26, Gawn 17) compared to Cameron/Cox combo of 25 (Cameron 12, Cox 13).  I'm so tired of the negative talk around Grundy, I don't want him to leave.

  On 06/09/2023 at 01:57, Katrina Dee Fan said:

We need Grundy tomorrow night.  On King's Birthday he carved Collingwood up - Gawn/Grundy combo had 42 hitouts (Grundy 26, Gawn 17) compared to Cameron/Cox combo of 25 (Cameron 12, Cox 13).  I'm so tired of the negative talk around Grundy, I don't want him to leave.

He's not selected.

  On 06/09/2023 at 02:02, dazzledavey36 said:

He's not selected.

and hes leaving.

  On 06/09/2023 at 02:02, Tracca said:

and hes leaving.

For the benefit of his career then yes, it's the right decision. 

  On 06/09/2023 at 01:57, Katrina Dee Fan said:

We need Grundy tomorrow night.  On King's Birthday he carved Collingwood up - Gawn/Grundy combo had 42 hitouts (Grundy 26, Gawn 17) compared to Cameron/Cox combo of 25 (Cameron 12, Cox 13).  I'm so tired of the negative talk around Grundy, I don't want him to leave.

The Carlton game was the perfect dress rehearsal for this game. Wet and we were up against two rucks. We played Gawn and Grundy and the FD didn't like what they saw. 

He won't be selected.

  On 06/09/2023 at 02:04, dazzledavey36 said:

For the benefit of his career then yes, it's the right decision. 

totally agree. no harm at all in us trying to see if it would work which it clearly doesnt, and no harm at all in him wanting to try and play in the seniors

  On 05/09/2023 at 22:07, beelzebub said:

If Tmac is on the Ground I would expect him to take any ruck contests releasing Roo as a receiver..  imho...a better use of abilities 

I'd like to see us use Oliver as the ruck sometimes in the forward 50 especially if he's being tagged. That worked quite well the couple of times we tried it (against Hawthorn?).

I get that there is no slot available for Grundy when Gawn plays but what if he is injured. Presumably thats why tmac will play Thurs.

I still think there is a place for Grundy when Gawn is unavailable.

I'd keep him.

  On 06/09/2023 at 04:14, Deebauched said:

I get that there is no slot available for Grundy when Gawn plays but what if he is injured. Presumably thats why tmac will play Thurs.

I still think there is a place for Grundy when Gawn is unavailable.

I'd keep him.

That's all lovely, except Grundy is an AA and isn't going to hang around in the magoos until Max gets injured.

We will not keep him unless something happens to Max during this finals series.

We've told him to look around. Listen to Goody's presser today. He was asked what he thought of Brodie exploring his options with a competitor of ours and Goody said our list management team were across it.

  On 03/09/2023 at 08:29, Queanbeyan Demon said:

Brodie is both a participant in, and the victim off, the pernicious consequences of the diverse forms of neo-liberalism, the market-economy, and the populism of the meat-market known to us as the AFL. All souls are available to be sailed up the river by shameless, self-righteous and conniving sleaze-bags. If he’s feeling betrayed, I cannot blame him. Yet, we all play a part, consciously or not, in our own betrayal. And on a reported $1.2m per year for seven years, guaranteed, my mercifulness toward him is somewhat circumscribed. As they say in other places, Brodie has what can be termed, “a better class of problem”.

That's extremely humorous.

  On 06/09/2023 at 04:56, Binmans PA said:

That's all lovely, except Grundy is an AA and isn't going to hang around in the magoos until Max gets injured.

We will not keep him unless something happens to Max during this finals series.

We've told him to look around. Listen to Goody's presser today. He was asked what he thought of Brodie exploring his options with a competitor of ours and Goody said our list management team were across it.

Yeah, it’s really disappointing how many just don’t seem to care about Brodie’s position here; he’s an amazing ruck in his prime - he shouldn’t be playing VFL.

  On 06/09/2023 at 10:11, rpfc said:

Yeah, it’s really disappointing how many just don’t seem to care about Brodie’s position here; he’s an amazing ruck in his prime - he shouldn’t be playing VFL.

Yeh... except for the fact he's contracted and not the best player in the team at that position.

Just a small detail i guess.

Sure he can leave, but he can't walk out. I mean he can but he won't be playing AFL or VFL if that's the case.

  On 06/09/2023 at 10:32, Cheap Seats said:

Yeh... except for the fact he's contracted and not the best player in the team at that position.

Just a small detail i guess.

Sure he can leave, but he can't walk out. I mean he can but he won't be playing AFL or VFL if that's the case.

Who is saying he is going to ‘walk out’ other than your strawman argument? My point is against those that say ‘what about if Gawn is injured?’ Are essentially saying ‘He needs to stay in the VFL for 4 months of the year including finals’

These are people. People who the club cares for like any good employer. 

Small detail I guess…

  On 06/09/2023 at 10:46, rpfc said:

Who is saying he is going to ‘walk out’ other than your strawman argument? My point is against those that say ‘what about if Gawn is injured?’ Are essentially saying ‘He needs to stay in the VFL for 4 months of the year including finals’

These are people. People who the club cares for like any good employer. 

Small detail I guess…

 

You're implying the other argument is wrong because the MFC will do what's right by Grundy. Fact is they don't need to, they can keep him in the VFL for 4 years.

Im not speaking for the MFC and what they will do, but the argument keep him in the VFL has merrit becuase if that's where the MFC sees teh best value for him so be it.

you're correct in your point though the highlighted point is a small detail. I would argue the contract holds the most weight in this argument.

 

Edited September 6, 20231 yr by Cheap Seats
Grammer, i'll start again

  On 06/09/2023 at 10:50, Cheap Seats said:

 

You're implying the other argument is wrong because the MFC will do what's right by Grundy. Fact is they don't need to, they can keep him in the VFL for 4 years.

Im not speaking for the MFC and what they will do, but the argument keep him in the VFL has merrit becuase if that's where the MFC sees teh best value for him so be it.

you're correct in your point though the highlighted point is a small detail. I would argue the contract holds the most weight in this argument.

 

The club have always tried to do its best by its players. It’s called being a club of choice. Long term reward for treating players well, and creating a culture within and outside the club. 
 

Keeping Grundy is a lose/lose situation for all involved.